spotify
apple podcasts
Google podcasts

spreaker
iheartradio
DEEZER

Podcast Addict
Podchaser
CASTBOX

“Can you hear me? Are you there?” 🙉 In this episode, hosts Phil and Lauren meet with audio expert Fernando Delgado to uncover the secrets to good audio. The trio discuss finding the right space for audio, tips for getting the best audio equipment, and other pointers for thriving in certainty as a creative. If you’re stressed out by dropped Zoom calls, echoes, and complaints of muffled mics, this episode is for you!

Phil

Before we dive right into this episode, I wanted to let you know about an awesome freebie we just created, a shot list template. I am a big fan of good photography for any brand and shot lists are basically the critical planning steps for any photography process. I like to think of the shot list as a way to capture your essence for the photographer. The photographer's job is to make sure you look like you and your job is to give them the stage so that you can shine. You're probably investing good money into your photos, so you want to make sure that you're capturing every element of your brand while you've got the time with them. Unless you have a history with your photographer, they likely don't know much about you, so a shot list is a great way to get them up to speed. This template will help you lay it all out: location actions, props, and so much more. Check it out for free at philp.al/shotlist and take all the guesswork away for planning that photoshoot. Now onto the show.

Phil 

Well, hello, welcome to Brand Therapy. I'm Phil.

Lauren

And I'm Lauren.

Phil

This is the podcast where we help you position, build and promote your brands. We usually talk about a combination of all three of those things. Sometimes we focus on one today, it's a new topic, which is kind of rare. As we look at around 100 episodes Hello, rare to have something we haven't really talked about, maybe it's come up a few times. We're super excited to talk about this with one of my favorite people in the world. Lauren would agree. And his name is Fernando. Fernando, you were one of our very first podcast episodes back in 2000 and something. It was Episode two. And it was weeks before Full Sail University Hall of Fame. You and I went up on stage, we branded you. That project is on my brand new website and I'm super proud of it, as well as all the video links of that. But you're back. And we're so happy to have you here.

Fernando

Thanks for having me back. It's nice to see you guys. In person, sort of.

Phil

In person kind of. We hear you, we see you. Let's focus on the hearing portion. It was actually Lauren's idea. She's like, now that we are working from home, well Lauren do you wanna maybe I don't have to talk for you. You're here. You're here.

Lauren

I'm here.

Phil

You can talk for you.

Lauren

I'm here. So I'm lucky because Phil is really into audio and techie things. And when we started this podcast he didn't even know the name of it. I just call it Scarlet because that's what he did. But he got the, what's it called?

Phil

Scarlet scarlet, which is what you plug your Heil PR40 into. And the Scarlet converts your XLR into a USB that works with your computer.

Lauren

Yeah. And then also got me a great microphone. And it's basically I'm just, it's Phil's stuff, but I've got it set up. And I've noticed a huge difference in my confidence on calls, or if I'm doing recordings from my screen, or even for podcasts, because I have proper audio equipment that makes me sound good. So I was thinking, since we're all working from home, why not call up the biggest audio expert that I know, Fernando. And we can talk about how audio can help your business, or you know, you as an individual if you're working from home. So I guess to kick things off, Fernando, I think it would be good for our listeners to hear a bit about who you are and kind of what got you into the world of audio. And we'll take it from there.

Fernando

Okay, well, thank you. So I started doing sound when I was a kid just with music, and just being a fan of music and loving music, and then eventually learning how to play music a little bit. But then I went to school to learn about how to record music. And that led me into a career of mixing and recording sound for broadcast television, TV shows, movies, commercials, pretty much anything for entertainment. And so today, that's pretty much what I do is I recorded mixed sound for TV shows.

Lauren

So cool. And I think in the context of like solopreneurs or people who are operating their businesses from home, have you found that you've been getting more questions about audio since like COVID started from people on Instagram or from the wholesale community?

Fernando

No, actually, what I've noticed is that because everybody and in the entire world had to adapt so quickly to working at home that they people have been a lot more forgiving, when it comes to less than good sounding audio, especially from zoom calls and all these other things, you know, people are calling in and they just don't have the equipment. So that being said, as time has moved on, I think people are becoming less patient with crappy sound.

Lauren

Yeah, I think you're right.

Fernando

Yeah. So I think for businesses, I just think that's something to keep in mind. And, and it's not always easy to keep in mind, it's usually the last thing that my clients think of, I can't tell you how often I get last minute calls because nobody thought to hire a sound professional for their very important commercial product, or whatever. And it's just because you don't think about it until it's not there.

Phil

Until you need it. Yeah, we get so distracted with all the splashy visuals. And I know from people, even this year, I started posting on YouTube each week, and doing the normal song and dance of oh, I need this camera and oh I need this tech and I need all this fancy stuff to start this brand new project that doesn't even exist yet. And for the record, we did buy these microphones even before we committed to having a podcast. I think I had one and then we got another one for Lauren. That's like against a rule I normally say. But I tell people.

Lauren

And I smuggled it to Canada.

Phil

I always say, I make 10 episodes of whatever you're gonna make whatever this thing is, and then invest in the equipment. But one of the interesting things here is that we get so distracted by video that we sometimes forget about audio. And many people will agree that if you had to choose one over the other people can put up with that video quality, but they will not put up with poor sound quality.

Fernando

Right? Right. There's this saying you guys just reminded me of a lot of times on set, especially younger people will say, hey, sound guy, you just remember, God created light. Or God said, let there be light. And I always stopped them and said, Ah, God said!

Phil

I love it. I love it. That's actually so funny.

Lauren

It's true. I mean, I honestly think that good audio could be the difference between you winning a sale or not, really, because like, if you think about if you're giving a pitch to someone online, and your audio’s crappy, low quality, I feel that shows maybe a lack of attention to detail, or a lack of consideration for the person listening on the other end, and automatically might affect your business in a far bigger way than a lot of people would even consider.

Fernando

Yeah, I agree. I think people's perception is that you're unprepared. At least that's what I get. Even being a sound professional, if I'm in a situation where it sounds like something is not right. Even just for a moment, I get far less time to fix the problem than most people in other departments do. And the lighting department can be fussing with a shadow somewhere or a flare in the lens or something like that, and everybody go grab coffee. But if I have a scratchy microphone somewhere, oh, man, it's coming down. So I just think in general, people are just less accepting, because high quality audio has been around for a long time. And the main reason for that is because you don't need to have expensive equipment, you just have to just basically set it up. Right. And that's not even that difficult.

Phil

Let's talk about that. For people that are not that tech savvy. Do you have any tips for a good setup?

Fernando

Well, first off, it would really depend on what the application is. And your viewers could kind of Judge just based on this podcast, I'm talking to you guys right now on my phone. The room that I'm in is my home studio. So the walls retreated. It's not very loud in here. There's not a lot of echoes and stuff like that. And before we started the podcast, Phil was talking about how he's frustrated with where he's living right now, just because of the echoes when he's doing his podcast. So you know, he's on an expensive microphone with a nice setup and some nice headphones in a crappy room. And I'm talking to you on my iPhone right now, in a moderately treated room. I haven't spent a lot of money to make this place sound good. I've just put some materials on the wall to deaden the sound a little bit so that I can get some work done.

Phil

Great. I've never been happy to have poor sound quality in a podcast episode.

Fernando

Well, you do sound great though. But like you said before, you have to get up on the microphone a little bit more in order to not hear so much of the room. And that's, that's physics, you know, that's acoustics. That has nothing to do necessarily with the price tag of your microphone. You could achieve the same high quality with a less expensive microphone. I guess my first thing would be, see what your budget is. And then before you buy, borrow or Rent. And just listen. You know, it's really that simple to just listen and focus on what it is that you're listening for. Listen to the room around you. When you speak, listen for any reverb or how long it takes for your voice to decay. And if it's unacceptable to you, then that's probably not the right microphone or setup for you.

Lauren

You know, I'm having flashbacks to a filming experience that Phil had a few years ago, Phil, you probably remember this. You were filming for? Was it Phil Pallen Academy. And again, this is another situation where people value looks over function, or like a video over audio because you rent it out this gorgeous, cool industrial warehouse in downtown LA. You had an awesome videographer, you had a great outfit on and it was filming day, and you started speaking and there was a gigantic echo, the biggest echo ever, and there was literally nothing that could be done about it. And you had two or three days of shooting. And it's just so interesting. I almost feel like what you said, Fernando, that the space matters almost more than the microphone in a way. Like first you really need to consider where you're filming. If you're going to be filming YouTube videos, you might want to consider a place that has a lot of furnishings and maybe a rug and things on the walls to actually absorb the sound. Is that right?

Fernando

Absolutely! That is one of the biggest problems that I have in my profession is that we will shoot in places that are absolutely beautiful, and be expected to get high quality audio out of it. And then I guess that's where the profession part comes in. Because we do it anyway.

Lauren

Right? You have to solve that problem,

Fernando

But it's based on years of experience and trial and error and, and pissing off some clients in order to learn a lesson to make other clients happy.

Phil

I learned the lesson when we all had our matching outfits. And we were in this super cool studio and everything was super echoey. We basically had a record sound after that, because it was just like not, it was not good. Okay, fine. I learned my lesson. Now I'm hunched over this microphone, just for you listener to have a good sound experience. I mean, I have terrible posture.

Fernando

But yeah, I, you know, the environment is a big part of it. So if you don't have to have a great visual, I would say the cheapest place to get a decent recording. If it's a you know, if you have a walk in closet that has a bunch of clothes and shoes and all these things to absorb the sound rather than reflect that would be a great place to record.

Phil

I know so many people that have done their audiobooks, or podcasts or voiceovers in their closets, which is hilarious, but it sounds good.

Fernando

Yeah, absolutely. It doesn't have to look pretty to sound good. I guess that's one of the beautiful things about it.

Lauren

So if someone is recording, YouTube videos, for example, do you find that recording the audio separately is just a good best practice to do? Like should someone have like a separate mic instead of talking right into their camera or a phone for example?

Fernando

Yeah, I would say so. And then it really depends on what you're doing. You know, like, as an example, if you're, you're shooting YouTube videos on cooking, and you're going to be moving around a lot, there's going to be a lot of pots and pans that are going to be making noise and your best bet might be to have a lavalier mic over, let's say, shotgun or a boom microphone. If you're doing something like okay, well, here's a really good example like Lauren, your camera appears to be close enough to where if there was a microphone on your camera, it would be good. So if you're doing like a more kind of static shot where it's medium and the microphone is pretty close, it might be adequate. It just really kind of depends on what you're doing

Lauren

Got it. So that's another situation where it's important to actually test and see what you like and what you think is acceptable and then use that.

Fernando

Absolutely. Test like crazy, you know, overdo it even and then that way you can go back and watch and listen and take a look at you know especially if you're shooting video. People don't realize how noisy things are and unlike people microphones don't discriminate. So I get a lot of questions you know so let's say a car driven by a client will ask me well did you hear that? Of course I heard that if you heard it my microphone heard it. Right. Right. I didn't bring the filter for that there is no filter to like not hear a bird chirping or the construction that's just outside or the plane taking off or whatever the case may be.

Phil

Highly familiar with the construction next door they're flattening the land next door and every time it seems we go to record the house starts vibrating it's like time perfectly but that's just Murphy's Law.

Lauren

Drives him mental. He's always in like a bad mood because of it.

Phil

But not today. It's nice.

Fernando

Today you're talking to a sound person.

Phil

Yeah. This is what you do for a living. I think a lot about audio. And I think that people don't even always realize the benefits, I’m kind of like shifting gears here. But like the benefits of creating content with audio, we think about video and video, video video. And I love audio, because it's easier to edit. If you ever need to just pull a little piece or put this with this, it's just, it's so much easier than having to edit video. Because you can make something seamless without a huge amount of knowledge or skill. And also being able to like talk something out. Most times when I read an email blast, I literally pull out my phone, and I use an app that I talked about a lot on your otter to transcribe a thought. There's no video involved to just talk it through. And then I would also say now with shorter forms of content on platforms like Instagram, Instagram reels, which when it launched was 15 seconds, only, now you can record up to 30 seconds. Still not a lot of time. So we're seeing creators now starting to pair audio, with video or images. There's another cool tool called wave, which you can take basically an image used to promote the podcast, you can take an image and put an audio wave on top. But you're also working with creators, can you talk a little bit about like, I don't know, cool ways that you've seen people use audio or things that you have observed lately that might inspire creators.

Fernando

I just think the big thing is, I mean, if you pay attention to any really well told story, regardless of where you see it, or hear it for that matter, the producers and the directors are fully aware that audio drives the story. And this holds true, pretty much in every genre you can think of you can lay a pretty image over anything. But if you don't capture the story, audibly, then I think it's a big fail all the way around, I spent a lot of years shooting reality TV. And our mantra with our crew was always get it clean. Because if we didn't get a clean then, it never happened, because they couldn't use it, even if they didn't get the video for it. Because they wouldn't have the audio to drive the story. So I think that's always a really good thing to keep in mind, if you're a creator, is that audio drives the story, almost always whether it's narratively, or through sound effects, or through music, whatever the case is, you get carried through the story through your ears, and the visual as badass as they are and I'm with everybody, they are badass. But it is just a compliment to a good story. You know, having that visual, but we all have imagination, so we don't really need it at the end of the day. If it sounds great. If it's a well told story, you can paint your own images.

Phil

I love that reminder. Also it's so true. Yeah, that's such an important reminder of what you just said, I think for creators to hear that and be reminded of that, because we put so much pressure on a beautiful visual. How much time do people spend retouching their photo writing their Instagram caption choosing their hashtags, when actually putting that energy into sound into audio into delivering a message that's spoken true to your character and not worry about this nonsense of visuals and actually put the visual second like a movie?

Fernando

Absolutely. Yeah, the nice thing too, with post production and editing and all these other things that you can do is you can always find the visual that matches the emotion, right. But if you don't capture that emotion, when you're telling the story through sound, then it doesn't really matter what you put visually, because your audience isn't going to feel it.

Lauren

So for someone who isn't technically inclined, like yours, truly, and their Creator and they want to get started in sound, where can they go to find like good microphones to start with? How do they know where to even begin?

Fernando

Well, YouTube is a really great place to start. You know, if you're creative, I guarantee you somebody within your circle or somebody within your community will be just as creative just with audio instead of visually. So ask questions. I'm a big fan of borrowing and renting and that also helps build community so that it will help you build a community of people around you that offset your talents. So I think that's, you know, just look within your community, YouTube videos, I mean, I YouTube videos all the time when I'm trying to learn about new things that are coming out as well. So it's always a great resource. And I would say the biggest thing is to start simple. Don't go investing a bunch of money in something that you don't know how to use, start really simple. So if you have a camera, and it's got a microphone built in, and you get your shot set up, and you do a test recording, it sounds good. Great. Use that. And if it doesn't, then start exploring other options.

Phil

Yeah, awesome, really good advice, because people tend to get carried away. I mentioned this earlier, but like, they get carried away with having the perfect setup before they've actually created anything. And it makes so much more sense to make something and then make it a little bit better, make it a little bit better, not just in the technical, but also in the whole, you doing something more than once.

Fernando

And if for whatever reason, it's not good, that's why you test, right? Before you're actually laying down the content or hiring a crew to come in and do something, do some tests first, and make sure that you have what you need, and that you're going to be happy with the product, or hire a professional. You know, if you have the budget, hire a professional to do it, then you don't have to worry about that.

Phil

So here's just a little bit of a different topic. And I want to segue into some of the projects that you've been working on lately. One that's entrepreneurial that I really want to talk about, that fits in with everything we've been talking about. But you and I have lots of friends in common. We have a lot of friends that work in the entertainment industry that have essentially been, you know, had their employment completely shaken up. We've talked about it multiple times on the podcast and tried to give people resources about how to pivot or how to shift, you've been in this position, having worked or having, you know, people in your team and people in your networks as well, go from working in person and working on set and doing live events and concerts, etc. to then having none of those events happen. How have you dealt with that drastic shift, and then segue into the cool project people working on that you and I've been texting about?

Fernando

Well, so at the beginning, I think it was one of those things where we were kind of going to, I mean, all of our work ended all at one time. You know, pretty much within about seven days, I was out on the road on a show that got shut down two weeks before we were expected to wrap. And I was home, I don't know, maybe about four or five months, four months or so, where there was absolutely no work whatsoever. No, nobody saw any work in sight. And so I closed my shop, I decided that it was probably going to be smarter for me to just break my lease, and move all of my stuff back into my home, and then try to lay off my crew and like try to make this rent that I knew I couldn't afford. So I'm going to have to face the man one day, when it comes to the lease, I think that I think they've already sent me to collections, I'm not 100% Sure. Side note, I don't give a shit. I kept my crew on for about six weeks, and then finally realized that work wasn't gonna be coming around anytime soon. So I let both of them go. And fortunately, within an hour, Crystal had her old job back. So she was like, Don't worry about me, which was awesome. She's still working there. And she's still helping me out so that I don't screw up the books too much in her absence, Marcus has decided that he's, he's moving on, he's going to go do something else. And so that also makes me feel better. Those were the two people that I had on full time. And so from a business standpoint, I've told them both that I'm going to maintain their health insurance until the end of the year. And like I pay for the cell phones. So I'm going to maintain those until the end of the year. And then we're going to see where we're at. Marcus is going to take off the insurance because he's going to do his own thing. And if I can afford to keep Crystal on, then great, that's what we'll do. So that was kind of bleak. I'm really smart with money, so I wasn't really trippin too much on networking, I actually really enjoyed it. And I spent a lot of my time actually focusing on my latest project, which is a remote voiceover slash ADR recording system. And so myself and one of my friends, Mike Orlovsky from Full Sail.

Phil

Who's awesome, by the way, he's great.

Fernando

Yeah, he's one of the smartest people that I know. He's amazing. But he and I spent probably, I don't know, six weeks or eight weeks of that four month period on the phone or on Zoom every single day trying to figure out how to get this recording systems plug and play as we possibly could. And so this week is actually the first week that we're, I guess officially launching our remote recording system and it's basically a plug and play system. We can send it to a talent home. They can plug it into the wall, hit the power button, which is very brightly labeled. And then we have everything else from there. And so talent can do voice overs from home and not have to worry about any of the COVID protocols or having to travel or any of that any of the stuff that they were doing in order to accomplish the same thing before. Also, I think I'm in a really interesting place in my life, because my son just graduated from high school, my baby, and so I feel like the world gave me a reset in a lot of ways. We were running the business, the business was doing okay, but we were definitely running a business that was modeled on how the entertainment was working 10 years ago, and not necessarily, we weren't necessarily functioning in a way that caters more to how production is done today. And so this is really kind of given me an opportunity to kind of watch, wipe the slate clean and do a little self reflection on the stuff that I want to be working on. And the types of projects I want to be a part of, and where I want my career to go from this point forward. So I've really been using this really horrific thing that's happened to the world to have an opportunity to kind of reset myself. And this, this whole record system is a big part of it.

Phil

I also like that you were in the position to be able to reset. I think that for those people that weren't in the position, it's a good reminder that as things start to come back, hopefully or as we iterate and how, as we, we pivot or as we, you know, some people take on completely different jobs, how important is to save money and be ready for something that literally no one can see coming. Yeah, literally. Yeah. Like that's, you know, it's one of those like adult reminders at every age to like, be responsible.

Fernando

Yeah, yeah.

Phil

It's also so cool to see you being so entrepreneurial. I mean, you are an entrepreneur, but how fun for you to have a brand new project, scary to launch this out into the world, but it's born out of something people need, we're gonna hyperlink to it in our podcast notes. But I think this is such a brilliant invention, because some people are tech savvy, but others just know how to push the on button.

Fernando

Right? Well, and really, to be honest with you, I would say if you're not really sure what you're going to do moving forward, because of all of this stuff, listen to the people around you. Because this whole idea came from two different conversations with people that I don't work with. But they were venting frustrations about the pandemic and their limitations due to the pandemic. And because both of those conversations just happened to both of those problems that these guys were having both happened to be something that I knew I could fix. I was like, Ah, this could be really cool. I wonder if I could make this work. And so it was all just from listening to people bitch, really is where the idea came from.

Phil

That's market research, at a time is at its simplest form, baby?

Fernando

Yeah, I told them both. And when I see them, I'm gonna give them the longest, most awkward hugs, because I just, I feel like they without trying really kind of like, Oh, this is cool. This could actually work. And people are gonna want to do this type of stuff long after they're able to go into public because it's easier.

Lauren

Yeah. It's interesting. I was listening to this audiobook at the beginning of the pandemic, because I think like all of us, especially if we're creative, we know that obviously, it's horrible. But there's always an opportunity when anything, you know, changes in the world, that's just like a fact, there's always like an opportunity. So I remember, this one audiobook I was listening to was saying, to always listen to complaints of people, like even in public, always, take out your headphones, and listen to what people are saying wherever you are, and then also around your neighborhood, or when you're out and about look for things that either need to be repaired, or things that people took upon themselves to try to fix. So like if you see something that's duct taped together, that can be an indicator that there's something that you have a problem that you could potentially help solve. So it's like the exact same situation with you, you were listening to people complain, and decided to take action on that.

Fernando

And I think also, I knew if that same conversation would have happened, let's say eight weeks prior, when we all thought 2020 was going to be the best year that we've ever had, because I feel like a lot of people felt that way. I don't think I would have listened the same way. Right? I heard somebody say something along the lines of, you know, when your backs against the wall, that's when you innovate, you know something to that effect. And I kind of feel like even though from a financial standpoint, I've always been really good. Not always but for a long time. I've been really good with money, saving money for a rainy day for such a time like now, but I can't work. And I'm stuck at home. And so my back is against the wall. And this was something for me to really focus my energy on instead of getting pissed off that I had to wear a mask, or didn't have to wear a mask, or whatever people were griping about. I'm going to just focus on this other thing and see if I can turn it into something.

Phil

I love it. So many good little tidbits from this conversation about audio, but also not about audio about business about entrepreneurship. Again, we will link to this very cool contraption that you've created and launched. So excited. Thank you for this little hangout on Brand Therapy.

Fernando

Love you guys.

Phil

I always appreciate and love you right back. And this has been awesome and insightful. Audio but so much more than audio,

Lauren

Audio and life.

Phil

Audio and life.

Fernando

Audio IS life.

Phil

Thank you so much, Fernando, for hanging out with us on Brand Therapy.

Fernando

Thank you for having me, guys. Good to see you.