103. How do you create a fitness (or any) program?
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Dreaming of launching a program in 2021? 💭 This is the episode for you! Using client PaleOMG as an example, hosts Phil and Lauren walk through the process of creating a program from start to finish. You’ll learn how to conduct competitive research, tips for mapping out your curriculum, advice on format, vetted platforms, and so much more!
Episode transcription
Phil
Hey listener, before we dive right into this juicy episode, you're gonna love it, I want to share the details on our most exciting Black Friday sale on our three signature online courses. My courses are fun, self paced, and teach you actionable steps to reach your goals. Content Mastery helps you create a content workflow that you can actually stick with and finally feel in control of your content. Email Mastery helps you implement email marketing tactics that will save you time and earn you a profit online. Instagram Mastery helps you master the “it” platform like a pro using all verticals of Instagram to grow your audience. Now, we rarely discount these courses, but it's happening and this is the very lowest price you will ever see these courses. I'm not gonna say it out loud in case you're listening to this in the future, and the sale is over. So go to philpallen.co/courses right now for all the details. Don't miss it. Now onto the show.
Phil
Well, hello, welcome to Brand Therapy. I'm Phil.
Lauren
And I'm Lauren.
Phil
And this is the podcast where we help you position build and promote your brand. And at the time of recording this, we're just getting our week started. In fact, what a way to start it. I'm feeling fresh today. I'm feeling excited about this topic that we have. Are you first of all, before I dive in, are you feeling fresh?
Lauren
Yeah, I am. Usually we're recording on a Monday. I normally with Monday, I wake up and I'm like oh my god, so much to do. Where do I start? Heart Rate high Apple Watch warning me that I'm exercising when I'm sitting still. But today, I woke up and I had a really good long sleep. And we have no client calls. We're just recording this podcast, which is also one of my favorite topics. So long story short, yes, I am feeling fresh.
Phil
Well, my weekend consisted of my Apple Watch, you had to rub it in, salt on the wound being lost in the bottom of a cenote 40 feet. We tried to find it. But it was crazy. Like just diving down by a few feet and the pressure was so crazy. But listen in the vein and the attitude of this day. And this week. I'm actually kind of looking forward to not having one which sounds a bit bratty. But I think it was meant to be and I only like one aspect of it, which is the fitness part. But I'm in such a routine now, thank you Apple watch that I don't even need the Apple Watch to know when I hit my steps when I hit my calories because I'm in a routine. So I'm kind of looking forward. It's like turning notifications off. I'm kind of looking forward to something on my wrist that doesn't vibrate every 30 seconds.
Lauren
You could also get a Fitbit.
Phil
Yeah, I could. I could. That's interesting. Yeah. Perfect segue. We're talking about fitness. Why? And what's different about today's episode why I'm excited about this is it isn't necessarily a topic that you and I came up with, which is normally how it works. Today's episode topic comes from Amanda, who's an avid Brand Therapy listener.
Lauren
Thank you, Amanda.
Phil
And here's what Amanda is wondering.
Amanda
Hi, Phil, and Lauren. My name is Amanda, and I have a question for you. I'm a personal trainer and I would love to create an online fitness program. I've seen PDF versions, and I've seen app versions. But how do I know which one to do? What are the pros and cons of each? And is there a third option that I don't know about? And then once I've made my choice, how do I get started? Thank you in advance love the podcasts.
Phil
Oh, and we love the question. Thank you, Amanda, what a great question. You've posed some specifics here that we're going to dive into should it be a program should be an app. I actually think right off the top disclaimer disclaimer that this episode is going to be useful for people even if they're not in fitness, even if they're not in fitness, they could be in anything. And we'll talk about creating programs. We noticed both a little bit from doing it with me this year in teachable in courses in creation. And then of course, who we've had on the podcast before and is one of our greatest, most wonderful clients, Juli Bauer Roth of PaleOMG we helped Juli probably a highlight of the year launch a series of fitness programs and make a lot of people happy and change a lot of lives and make a lot of money hundreds of thousands of dollars.
Lauren
Yeah, by the end of this year, she's going to be looking at about $400,000 in sales and that doesn't even include the new program that's coming out December 31.
Phil
So so we're talking about programs. Amanda, you asked the right people this question.
Lauren
Now one disclaimer, I think that we should say is while we're using julis success as an example, Julie does have an existing audience, right. She makes a living from her blog and from her Instagram, she has over 300,000 followers on Instagram. So while her results are incredible, she also does come with that audience, I want the people listening to this episode to know that making a program is definitely worth having. So you always have something to sell to an audience or anyone. But it also is a lot of work. So I feel like a lot of people go into anything, courses, products, whatever, expecting to just create something and immediately sell $50,000 worth. But sometimes it's not necessarily about the money. It's about the offering and the long term relationship that you develop with your students.
Phil
Yes. So step number one, just doing it is not enough. You know, it's not necessarily going to bring that milkshake is not going to bring all the boys to the yard. It's not necessarily going to, you know, it won't. I mean, it could, it could, and there are instances of people having huge success on platforms like Udemy, Teachable, etc. But I think what needs to be balanced with your efforts in creating a program, need to be efforts in growing your audience, be an email marketing, be it Instagram followers, those are things that we often kind of sweep to the side, or we'll put it on the to do list for tomorrow. And I think that if this is in the realm of what you hope to be doing launching a program, then make sure you're growing and putting effort to grow on other platforms.
Lauren
Totally. Well, I guess it's gonna be a little while until our listeners hear us get into the How to have programs. But one thing I also wanted to add is that when you say grow your audience, I think it's really, really important for people to grow their audience by listening to what they actually want. And I guess this is really kind of the first step of devising a program is by creating something that people actually need. Now with Juli's program, as an example, Juli had tested out a lot of workout programs, like kind of like short little program videos, her audience loves them. And we did a lot of competitive research. And we found that either the programs that influencers had in apps were not lifting heavy weights that were important to Juli and to our audience, or they were kind of like overtraining in a way, or they required a ton of equipment. So we really made sure to find that kind of sweet spot where the program that Juli devised, use heavy weights for people who really want to tone up and build muscle and not be using like, dinghy three pound things. And we also wanted something that was not time consuming. And then we also wanted something that was light in total equipment. So you didn't need to like buy a whole gym to get results.
Phil
And also, you guys talked about this, I haven't been as much involved in the creation or the premise of, obviously, the first program and then all of the subsequent programs, you work directly with Julie on that. But a big part of it is ‘A’, having someone to talk to about how you want to position it, the first thing you mentioned was knowing from your audience where there's demand and need. So it's not just having an audience who will buy the program, once hopefully, you know, once you launch it, but also an audience that represents like a little focus group that represents the larger sentiment about how people are going to respond to this particular product, whether you put paid efforts behind it, Google AdWords, What Have You, you know, any kind of paid sponsor, but also organic, I think it's important to talk with your own audience to make sure that it's going to be received well. I think it's important to have someone else like an accountability partner is the role that we play with a lot of our clients, when it comes to launching stuff like this, and not just doing it on your own. I'd say that to Amanda, I'd be like, don't do this on your own, have someone to talk to about this, you know, through the process.
Lauren
Totally. And I think if you don't have a an audience, but you have this idea of launching something fantastic. Before you actually start creating anything, I think that some qualitative research needs to happen. So yes, figure out like in a very, very, very specific way, figure out your demographic. What is the age of the person, what are their ultimate goals in life? What problem do they have, like kind of create almost a persona, get it down on paper, and then find someone who fills that persona whether it's you know, asking friends and family are putting feelers out on social media and actually have conversations with people to figure out what it is they're looking for. I'll use a quick example one of my favorites. This is not a client, although I would probably die if she ever was one, college nutritionist on Instagram. She started off with a couple thousand followers on Instagram now has 450,000. And she has released programs that have earned her about $30,000 a month in passive income for the past few years. When she was first starting out, her nutrition messaging on Instagram was kind of all over the place. And she was trying to appeal to a whole bunch of different people. So she did that exercise of figuring out who is my ideal demographic, okay, I want to help women who are either in their final years of college or just graduated, who have gained five to 20 pounds who want to lose weight, but also want to do it without spending a lot of money. Found those people interviewed them and found the number one challenge that they have is making healthy meals for one. Once she figured that out by listening to her audience, her account completely took off, took off. And she just started formulating recipes that were healthy for one person.
Phil
So smart. It is so smart. Yeah, I think one of the most challenging things is not being able to anticipate that aha moment. For some people, it could be a conversation with a client or a friend. For others, it could take months of research it. And knowing that there are moments in that research that are not fulfilling, or happy or exciting, it can be stressful to figure out that angle. That thing. There's a lot of competition with things in fitness, I would say even now in branding, and just in a lot of education spaces. Even markets where there was not as much competition where I would consider myself like branding, it was not. Now it's like you look and it's like, okay, there's stuff everywhere. So how do you without feeling the pressure, how do you feel confident knowing that what you're doing is slightly different, and that people are going to be attracted to you like a little magnet for content, what you say, and personality, them wanting that content from you specifically and being willing to pay for it.
Lauren
Mm hmm, exactly. So once you've found that kind of sweet spot, that niche, that angle for your fitness program, or otherwise, then it comes down to planning a curriculum. Now, even if you're creating a fitness program, you're still ultimately creating a curriculum, because it's gonna build on itself. So really, I think the steps of creating a course or a fitness program are the same. You're mapping out what you want to cover, and what you want the person to do over a certain period of time, whether it's over one week, whether it's learn as you go, whether it's three months, 12 weeks, like Juli's program, and then you figure out in sort of what you're going to be covering at every single stage over that duration.
Phil
What about when it comes to choosing a platform? That tends to be something that people get hung up on? Mm hmm. I mean, I was there, deciding, okay, Is this on Kajabi? Is this on Teachable? Let me start googling frantically? What are other people using right? Even keeping track of my peers and my friends that work in similar businesses? What are they using? And I realized now in hindsight, that actually the platform matters less. You can pull this off in a variety of ways. And I would say make sure that if you're researching this, that you're reading a blog post that's updated. So even at the time of recording this, it's been less than a week, since Squarespace launched officially their own membership platform, like membership sites directly on the platform. For years, people have had to use third party tools, plugins, like Member Space or others. And now people can work directly on the the site itself, that's brand new. I have it queued up for a YouTube video to give it a little test drive. But I've read blogs and people say that, um, it's overpriced, because it doesn't have any video hosting capabilities built into it. So you still have to rely on a third party tool to host the video. Ideally, it should have a partnership with Wistia or something like that. I'm a big fan of Vimeo for hosting, you know, private videos. I think it's nice to keep it all directly on Squarespace. It's just like one less thing to worry about. But I think there's some downsides and it's overpriced. And honestly, there are parts of Squarespace that are incredibly overpriced, in my opinion, like their email marketing platform is absolutely stupid. It's garbage. Yeah, and they charge way too much money for it.
Lauren
How much do they charge?
Phil
Too much, too much too much. I don't even know off the top my head because I see it and I am like like, nope.
Lauren
That is so funny!
Phil
I guess. And so here we are even I'm getting a bit sidetracked talking about platforms, platforms, platforms. And it's like, it's a bit like clothing brands. At the end of the day doesn't really matter what clothing brand you wear? Or is it just important that you walk out of the house with a shirt on? Kind of the same?
Lauren
Yeah, yeah, obviously, you want to choose a platform that is easy for someone to use. Because if there's any barrier, or obstacle between your buyer, and actually accessing the course, that'll create a frustrated customer. And you might have to do refunds, or whatever. But I will say with Juli's original program, we just had a PDF, it was a PDF with links to Vimeo videos. We ended up evolving, and switching to Teachable and that ended up being the right choice, because keeping track of PDF updates was kind of a headache. And ultimately, everyone was getting different versions of the PDF. So Teachable is great, because you can update it all real time. So that's what worked for Juli. But it doesn't necessarily mean it's the golden standard for everyone else.
Phil
I also want to add, it's a bit like starting a podcast, people want to go right out of the gate with the fanciest microphone, the fanciest setup. Phil, I want to start posting videos on YouTube, do I need to buy this $2,000 camera? No, you can just start small. And as you earn it, you can upgrade your gear, upgrade your platform, simplify your life, but don't spend a whole bunch of money before you make a single sale. Bit like watching Shark Tank, right people that soup up this great product that no one actually wants.
Lauren
Buy tons of inventory.
Phil
Exactly. Inventory says digital worlds a little bit different. But it's the same idea. I love this idea of launching small. And immediately after clicking publish, and selling 10 products, selling 100 courses, whatever it is, then gradually you make it a priority to upgrade, streamline, use technology to make your life simple and teachable. It's um, they don't sponsor this. So we're not going to be saying that much nice stuff about them. It is good though I use it for myself. Juli uses it.
Lauren
Yeah, uh, one thing. So there's this creator, I love Darius Farrow, I don't even know if I'm saying his last name correctly, I've said it 1000 times to clients and stuff. He has a very interesting tactic with creating programs. And what he actually does is he first starts very, very small, only creates like a couple modules. Or in the case of a fitness program, maybe it's like a week, sells it for very, very cheap so we can get people in the door. And then he keeps upgrading and expanding that program. The people who were the first buyers don't have to pay anything extra, they just get it. But then he gradually increases the price of the program accordingly. So that's really interesting. If you're not wanting to like kind of bite off more than you can chew and develop this thing. You can start small, you can sell something for 10 or $20. And see how it goes. Which is kind of interesting.
Phil
I love that idea. There's a creator I love that also does something crazy. I've noticed a launch. His name is Jason Zook, he's really famous. He's got a great brand with his wife called Wandering Aimfully. And he has launched website themes and programs and the price starts at $1. And then every time someone buys the price goes up 2,3,4,5,6. Isn't that cool?
Lauren
I freaking love that
Phil
Same kind of idea. But automated I'm sure I don't know the plugin for that. But I'm sure you could find one. Really cool because it rewards early adopters, people that buy into the concept early and it's just it creates some hype.
Lauren
Cool. Very cool. Okay, so get
Phil
We get excited about that stuff.
Lauren
But these are all important considerations. May we've talked about them longer than people need, but whatever. Okay, moving on. So mapped out good, the duration of your program, you know what you want to cover. And then now it's a matter of actually figuring out how you want to communicate the curriculum. So like in the case of Julie's first program, she communicated it on a written PDF. That was it. And she had an accompanying video of the movements with just music and her showing how to do the exercise, no voice whatsoever. And that's how she wanted to show the exercises. Now with you, Phil, for your courses, you wanted to communicate audibly, I guess. And that's why you decided to film everything to camera, correct?
Phil
Yes. And I created a little system that made it sustainable for me to be able to make updates in the future which by the way, good timing I'm about to make these updates for 2021. My plan before the turn of the new year is this, I took all my videos for my courses and decided they're either this way style a or this way style B style A is a video of me to camera with organized thoughts that I scripted and I was organized and no ums, like sometimes I do on the podcast, it was very organized and efficient for people's time. Those videos would start each section of the course. And then I would physically turn around to the computer, even though in the filming of it, the computer is actually like 10 feet away from me, but I would start the motion of me turning around, I know that gets you every time I love it, then I would remove my video and just share my screen with a good microphone. And that way in the future, as the Instagram for example, of course on Instagram updates its interface, I can not worry about having to go back and find the same location and film it. So it's, you know, consistent. It's just my voice. So I just update the slides and the visuals and the content. And I just have to re record the audio. Very easy without having to re you know, uproot the whole course. So that was a system I created upfront, not just to get the videos done for the initial launch, but to think okay, how is this going to evolve one year from now two years from now three years from now. So that's something you want to think about?
Lauren
Yeah, so I would say play to your strengths. I mean, Juli's an excellent, excellent communicator, but because she already has that existing audience, she could, I think afford to choose to do it however she wanted. For someone who perhaps has less followers or a smaller audience, I would recommend communicating in a way that best suits you like, for me, I would want to write everything because I feel like that's the way that I can strongest, Oh, God, well, here's proof in the pudding. I can communicate my strongest in written form, not speaking. Whereas Phil, I think you really enjoy speaking to the camera.
Phil
If you want to written course for me, you'll probably get that in 2027. If you're lucky. It's just not gonna happen. Whereas for me to just flip on the microphone or the camera, whatever, you know, it's easier for me. So think about what's easier for you. And also don't put so much stress into the production of it. You don't it doesn't need to be fancy. And I really mean that. You know, I really mean that invest enough that you're excited about the project that's getting a camera or a basic microphone that upgrades it's slightly I would always prioritize audio. We know from our podcast episode a few weeks ago, actually, it was last week with Fernando. Audio matters more than video, audio matters more than video people hearing you well, as opposed to seeing HD camera people don't really care. I think but don't go crazy with investing in production. I think it's not necessary, particularly for the first course out of the gate. And after launch, you can always upgrade it later. I remind myself that.
Lauren
Yep, college nutritionist course, sold tons of them. And she just has a simple branded, well, I'm saying branded loosely, Phil would probably have a conniption if he saw what these slides look like. But she has very simple PowerPoint, and voiceover and you don't even see her face. And she has verbal tics and says, Ah, and glottal fries throughout the whole thing. And she sold freaking $30,000 a month of this for years. Love it. So now you've got all of your assets. And I think, really, the final step is putting it all out there. So someone can purchase the sales page for your program is going to be probably the most important thing because you need to anticipate any questions or any hesitations that someone might have if they land on your page, while at the same time addressing their problems that your program might solve can be a little tricky.
Phil
Probably the thing you need to spend the most time on, I never lie to you when you and I have spent 10 hours creating a landing page because we keep thinking of things. We keep thinking about things. We keep thinking of questions that people are asking as they're deciding, should I click purchase?
Lauren
Yes. So one little trick that we've learned, I would say is at the very beginning of your sales page, there needs to be some kind of section that's like, does this sound like you or does this sound familiar? And that's when you hit people with a whole bunch of bullets that speak to whatever problem they might be having. So in the example of your content mastery course Phil, it's like, what are the frustrations people have with creating content, they feel like a hamster on a wheel, they're putting tons of time into their content and getting no results, their audiences staying the same size, their engagement is embarrassing. They can see their competitors starting accounts later and taking off, or they're nervous and don't know how to take that first step. And it could go on and on and on. But you can see how by specifically listing out areas of challenge in bullets, it can be a pretty powerful and pretty pointed message that causes someone to continue reading.
Phil
Yes. And that's just creating the program, we could do a whole other episode on promoting it.
Lauren
Yeah, definitely. So of course, the sales pitch can't be all doom and gloom. But I feel like that's a really good tactic for hooking someone to the beginning. And then the next part, I think, is really bulking up with specificity, what it is that your program is solving, and why it's different from every program out there. And then this is the really important part, what makes you different from every competitor, as the person who's devised this program and is ultimately delivering you a solution. So to wrap things up, I would say if there's one thing I could encourage people to do, after listening to this episode, before creating your program, is to read the book Launch by Jeff Walker. That book completely blew my mind with the power of email marketing with the power of creating a course that people really want. And also with the power of properly teasing your content to get sales. So I would say, Amanda, I hope this episode has been useful for you, and I would definitely, definitely recommend launch by Jeff Walker, and it'll definitely get the wheels turning.
Phil
Yeah, launch takes what feels like a marathon and breaks it down into like, mile by mile even last stride by stride, if you will, and it helps make this field doable. I would end on that note is that it? It is doable. Don't think that you're going to get it all done by tomorrow. But it has to be something you prioritize and you chip away at, give yourself enough time to, you know, discover what it should be about get market research and response from your ideal audience to make sure you're heading in the right direction. And don't be afraid to sell it for a little bit less to those people who've earned it who buy into the concept early to show proof of concept wants to think about lots to do. What are you going to say?
Lauren
Totally. Well, I was gonna say I think the hardest part is creating it once it's out there, then you can also Yeah, that's when you can have fun. And you can also adjust. Yeah, so if you're planning ahead and you're filming your videos in a place where you can film long term or if you're writing your course in a PDF, you can always adapt based on feedback. I think a lot of people feel like once they've created the program, that's it you can't change nothing is different, but that's not true at all. And Juli is proof of that. We completely redid the format of the program to great success, and you can too.
Phil
People should check out as an example Juli's website, PaleOMG.com and there she's got a link to all of the programs on Teachable. We've also got our three courses on our website, philpallen.co/courses, you'll be able to see all three of them there. And you can look at our landing pages and get ideas don't copy me, but get ideas for sure. Let's continue the conversation on social media. I'm @philpallen.
Lauren
I'm @thelaurenmoore
Phil
#brandtherapy to continue the conversation and if you liked this episode, then go to iTunes and leave us review five star five star, helps other people discover this podcast that we work really hard to create. That's it for us.
Lauren
Great. Well good episode, Phil.
Phil
Good episode. We'll see you back next time on Brand Therapy.
Lauren
Bye bye