114. How do you get online speaking gigs? (f. Charlotte Raybourn)
Is it possible to get speaking gigs in this current climate? 🎤 According to speaker manager (and this episode's Brand Therapy guest) Charlotte Raybourn, the answer is yes! Hosts Phil and Lauren meet with Charlotte to obtain recommendations for locking down online speaking gigs. We dial into what event bookers are looking for, techniques for developing your online presentation, and receive first-hand insights from Charlotte herself. If you feel like COVID has put a damper on speaking opportunities, let this episode convince you otherwise.
Episode transcription
Phil
Hello, welcome to Brand Therapy. I'm Phil.
Lauren
And I'm Lauren.
phil
And this is a podcast where we help you position, build and promote your brand. Did you like that dramatic pause, Lauren Moore, and promote.
lauren
I mean, it's fitting given what we're discussing today.
Phil
I love what we are discussing today. Don't act like you don't love it. Because with over 100 episodes of this podcast in the can you, I think that you love podcasting. And I would argue that podcasting has made you a confident communicator.
Lauren
It's definitely helped. I mean, the editing, hearing what could be after editing is very, very inspiring. So something to work on.
phil
Thank you, Igor, our editor, and we're gonna say an upfront thank you to Charlotte, our guest today, who is the smartest, most expert knowledged person I know when it comes to speaking. So I mean, I have a little bit of knowledge in this, traveling and giving talks on stage, but Charlotte, as a manager of speakers, seriously knows this industry. And when we thought about how the pandemic and everything happening in the world recently has affected businesses, personal brands, maybe people that speak at conferences, or maybe people that don't, but are now on Zoom every day, so they kind of are a little micro speaker in some kind of way. We thought that Charlotte was the perfect person to call to be on our podcast. And she's here, and she's with us right now. Welcome to Brand Therapy, Charlotte.
Charlotte
Hey, how are you guys doing?
lauren
Good, we're so excited.
phil
We're so glad you're here.
Charlotte
Thank you for having me. It's a pleasure,
Phil
I think the first thing we should do is ask you to give us a snapshot of a day in the life of Charlotte to give us a little sense of what you do. So the listener knows kind of what's involved with being a speaker manager.
Charlotte
Yeah, so basically, I work very hands on with my speakers who are have been speaking for a while and are kind of just at that point where they've got a pretty good amount of business flowing, and they need somebody to kind of step in and be that mouthpiece to the client or to the speaker's bureau. Somebody to kind of do things back at command central, while the speaker is out, traveling and on planes and can't get to their emails quick enough. So it's nice to have that middleman, somebody like myself to handle all those tough questions and problems that speakers run into. And I handle all just, you know, inquiries that come in from different clients, we do some outreach, and we do elevate, you know, brand and things like that. So it's a lot of fun.
Lauren
Yeah. And a lot of strategic positioning work to, from what I gather?
charlotte
Yes.
lauren
Obviously, given the times, I imagine that your industry was affected, potentially more than most. So what has that adjustment been like? And to walk us through what happened.
charlotte
So literally, within a couple days, I mean, it was just a hard stop. That's the best way that I can describe it. It's just a hard freeze. The calls would just trickle in from the clients that booked events saying, you know, we're postponing, we're canceling. And it got to a point where we were just literally waiting for the phone to ring, which it would every other minute saying, okay, here's another, you know, job that we've got in the books, that's, that's now going to be removed. So the calendar pretty much just fell empty for all of 2020, almost, and pretty much into 2021, at least until summertime. So it was a hard freeze quickly.
Lauren
Oh my gosh, and especially when your speakers are basically your clients, how would you even communicate with them about that? Was it hard?
Charlotte
Yes, And it's don't panic, most of these are postponements. They're not cancellations, which is good. Nobody wants a cancellation. So it was how are we going to deal with things in the interim? How are we going to, you know, yes, you're pushed out till mid late 2021, but what are we going to do now? So let's not panic. Everybody's in the same boat here. And it was a bit of a waiting game for about a month. And we started scrambling to get virtual demo reels made. I mean, that was such a challenge because so many speakers don't. This is a whole new ballgame for them. I mean, yes, they're great speakers up on the platform and they have good content, but to be able to deliver a virtual presentation is so much different so that we have kind of that third component now in the mix, and that was challenging for some of them.
Lauren
Did your speakers have virtual presentations to pull from that were recorded generally? Or was it something new they
had to do?
charlotte
Now they took what they had, and some of them tweaked it. But we did recommend that you take one or two of them, and really tweak it towards a virtual presentation, even putting the word virtual similar in the description so that the buyer knows, you know, hey, this is this person seasoned, they can do it. This one's made for virtual.So that's what we did.
Phil
Wow, that’s branding, even just including the word virtual speaks directly to the buyer and the customer. That's powerful. I think I remember days into the pandemic, I remember going to our category on our website, keynote speakers, and just staring at everyone's face thinking, how are all these people doing? You know, became a really, because of all the different types of industries that we work in. I don't think anyone other than maybe music and event touring, I don't think, you know, some people work in entertainment. I don't think there's any category that was affected more. I know, some of our speakers, you know, branding clients literally had calendars, by the week, absolutely jammed full with travel and events from, 10 to zero, instantly. So people had to, like, I hate the P word that everyone's using pivot, but that's what they had to do. We're sick of hearing this word pivot. But Charlotte, I'm curious if you've observed anyone that has made an inspiring pivot, or made an inspiring kind of jump to this new format and changing things virtual. Let's explore some of the things that you think people have done that has worked. And they've had to do it quickly.
Charlotte
Yes. Well, I've seen good virtual demos and virtual presentations, and I've seen not so great virtual demos. And I think the difference is, in my opinion, and I've been hearing this as well, from the different buyers, that, you know, obviously, everybody has a front row seat now, all the attendees, right. But they also have probably 10 other windows on and they're open in their computer, they're at home, they're a little bit distracted. So how can we keep the attendees engaged, that they're not getting tired, they're not tuning out, they're not, you know, writing things down. That's a huge obstacle.
And then being able to bring in graphics to the presentation, whether it's, you know, fly ins, as they're talking, whether it's, you know, your PowerPoints back here, there's all sorts of things that people are doing to keep that attention of the viewer, the ones that don't, they're just kind of sitting in front of a gray wall. I think they’re the ones that are struggling, because they're losing the attention quickly. And also, we've had to shorten up the speeches, which has been a little challenging for speakers, because you know, you're used to speaking for 60 to 90 minutes to have to shorten that up to 30 to 45. you would think it would be easy, but it's not. But something that's definitely needed for this type of delivery mechanism.
Lauren
You said so many interesting things there. So I've got multiple questions. The first, is when you're thinking of how to sell someone as a speaker in a virtual capacity, do you find that the expectations on the buyers side have changed? For example, do people want a motivational speaker right now when there isn't that stage the sense of audience? Is that something people want?
charlotte
Well, it's interesting, because, you know, most of the requested topics that we're seeing are sales, marketing, how to speak to a customer's needs right now, personal development, you know, the Zoom fatigue, the stress, how are people adapting to black lives matter, you know, the diversity and inclusion programs are popular as well. But I think the motivation one is probably the most challenging space, just because to see a performer doing a virtual program is, you know, you can imagine just tough to do. So the one person that that and I will I'll give it a shout out to is Dan Thurmon. And he just does an amazing program and his virtual demo reel is off the charts. You’ll have to check it out.
phil
We'll link to that in the podcast notes. I can't wait to watch that. That's the perfect example of a quick pivot like cut together a virtual real. Yeah, it's totally different removing the in person factor. There are some exciting things about it, like yay, we don't have to fly around the world to be present for a conference. My last one was December of last year. I was in Egypt for a conference and I had to fly from Mexico City, which literally took two days including layovers. Now I could just hop on Zoom take a nap beforehand with the with the zone difference.
However, I've heard an interesting argument, Charlotte, that I'm curious to get your opinion on from fellow speakers who are saying, actually, this climate is kind of tough because while yes, we don't have to physically be present, we could be doing multiple engagements in a shorter period of time, now, the competition is different, because geography isn't a factor, which means you have past presidents and celebrities that are cutting their high range speaking fees in half, because travel isn’t required. And so now it's kind of more competitive for smaller and medium range speakers. Is that true? Is that what's happening? What have you witnessed?
charlotte
It is true, even though it's so much more work for the speaker to deliver a virtual program, it's not as engaging for the client and the viewer. I mean, it's just not and I can, I can see why you don't have that in person, you know, energy and everything, but they don't feel like it's worth paying the full fee. They just don't. And hopefully, we'll get there where things were, you know, we'll start and change back. But for right now, the clients just are not paying really anything more than about 50 to 60% of the speakers live in person. So I know that it is a worry for a lot of the speakers that do have a higher price tag for, you know, those around them, their competitors to be taking such low fees, is that going to bring the market down for them in the future? All those things. A lot of speakers are dropping out. A lot of speakers are just, you know, changing and packing up their bags and say we're, you know, done because this is gonna go on for a while,
lauren
Because they're gonna have to work twice as hard to make the same amount of money as before. Really?
charlotte
Yes. Which is so discouraging. I think another thing that the reason why they're so challenging right now is because a lot of the clients and attendees are just, they have a lack of usability on the virtual platform. So they're not comfortable, comfortable. They're just, they're waiting, they think this is all going to correct itself, which it will eventually, but you know, we're seeing some of that, where they're just holding off, because they just don't feel quite comfortable. And they don't think it's going to, you know, turn out as big for the attendee front.
lauren
Yeah. And so you'd mentioned that clients are expecting to pay around 50 to 60% of the normal speaking fee. Now, is that if you were giving an hour and a half presentation? And is that price slashing down even more if you're giving a half hour presentation?
charlotte
Well, it's interesting, because the clients will use that oftentimes as a negotiator, I bet. Right. And it's still the same for the speaker, or good, a good rebuttal to that is, it's still the same amount of prep time. And as a speaker, you know, they have to customize for that particular client. So it's really not so much about how long the presentation is, it's about the work that goes in upfront before the event.
lauren
Right? There's that quote by Mark Twain or something where it's, like, I apologize for the length of this letter. If I'd had more time, it would be shorter. It's harder to make a presentation worse, or a letter more.
Charlotte
Yes, yes, exactly.
Lauren
One thing I was wondering is, since the time that speakers have with the audience is compressing since attention is more limited? And I'm guessing that more customizations are required then normal, do you find that your speakers are having to put more due diligence in upfront when getting to know the client? And they're sort of like, immediate challenges? What does that look like?
charlotte
So what I wouldn't say a ton, but you know, there's always those few prep calls that go beforehand. And I don't think it's so much really the content and the restructuring so much, perhaps it's if they want to pre record or if they want it live, and how that's all gonna play out. Because we're running into a lot of problems where clients are having technical internet issues. And if it's a live recording, there's all sorts of issues. So we're encouraging the client to do a pre record, and then do a live Q and A. So the speaker is still alive on the pre record, as if they're really there. Alright, but the client has a bit of a mental thing. They can't get past the speaker's not live, right when they hear pre-records, but it's just better for everybody because you just eliminate all sorts of technical issues.
Phil
Yeah, I love that idea. I had never heard of that. But actually, the client should embrace that because then they can approve it word for word ahead of time.
Charlotte
Well, it's interesting you bring that up, because that's another thing that people are we're all running into is that if they get the pre record too far in advance, then they go in and they nitpick it, and they want to make all sorts of changes. So that's part of my job is to put the right language in the contract that you know, you've got one edit. And then that's it. You know, it just creates more work for the speaker.
lauren
Of course.
Phil
We know all about edits. Working in brand new we know all about edits.
Charlotte
The other. The other positive I will add to the pre record is that the speaker can add in all sorts of post graphics, which I think is really cool to the pre record. That is cool for the client.
Lauren
And so I have some questions for people who maybe are interested in dabbling into speaking, I know that your speakers have been doing this for a long time. And they've achieved kind of an elite level where they can call themselves a professional speaker. I think that our listeners would use speaking as a means to kind of acquire a business or build and meet new people, things like that. So do you have any kind of high level recommendations for someone who's wanting to explore doing online talks or workshops for companies,
charlotte
I think that the more practice they can get with delivering a virtual keynote, you know, in addition to a live keynote, I think do the reps, right? Because I don't think that virtual is ever going to go away. So even if it's just for a small group, you know, local Chamber of Commerce, I say, just do the work, get the demo out there, and the more you practice at it, the better. So that would be my best advice. Because even some of our high level speakers can't accomplish the depth of virtual. They're having to go back to the starting board. And that's very frustrating for them.
Lauren
Yeah, I imagine it would be especially if you get to that level of speaking that your clients are at. So much of speaking I feel like is not just what you're saying, but how you're saying it like even in terms of your physicality and your body language. And I feel it's kind of hard when the screen is only showing shoulders up that kind of presence. I imagine you'd have to kind of rework almost the physical aspect of your talk.
Charlotte
Yes, yes. It's almost as if a television anchor, you know, they go through a certain amount of training before that. And I've heard that some of those speakers are doing really well right now. Because this just comes as an everyday thing for them. So you can see why that would apply.
Lauren
Yeah. And so if someone's just starting out, they're putting in the wraps. They're speaking for the local Chamber of Commerce, at what point do they start charging for their time?
Phil
I love that question. I would have loved Charlotte's answer when I decided this in my career.
Charlotte
I think that if you do a little bit of research beforehand, on the client that you're talking to, you can find out if they've paid people in the past, who their speakers have been in the past, and do all your search online and see if those speakers are paid speakers, you know, do they make 10,000 a year? Do they make 20,000 a year, then you know what you're dealing with, with the client that's coming up. And I just think go for it. As soon as you're feeling confident. Throw a number out there. And you'll know right away if they have a budget. Even if it's 2500. Just throw it out there. And all they can say is nope, we're not looking to pay or okay, no problem.
lauren
That's true. That's really true. Good advice. And another sorry, I'm hogging the microphone.
Phil
I want you to, I want you to pick Charlotte's brain, because you are the one that I have to field all this stuff with. So please go ahead and get all of the knowledge from Charlotte,
Lauren
I know that, again, with your speakers, they'll generally have four to six different speaking topics. And that'll give an overview of the sort of takeaways and who the audience is and what they'll be covering. Do you recommend that when someone is starting out speaking, they also develop their set topics when approaching a client?
Charlotte
Ys, yes. I think it's good to have all that developed before approaching somebody, even if it's just one talk, one good talk, your signature talk is fine. I mean, it's good to have a couple if you can, but I think having all those developments, if there's no question whatsoever, and then just letting the client or the buyer know that, of course, you will customize based on what their challenges are, what their needs are.
Lauren
Right, because I guess the talk description is almost like a starting point to make sure you're speaking the same language, right. And then from there, it's finessed.
Charlotte
Yes, because I think everybody goes on to the person's what you know, website for the most part and checks them out to see what they've got to offer. So it's always nice just to have it already there. If it's not there, then more than likely just to move on to somebody else before they make that call.
lauren
I feel like when people are just starting out speaking, there's kind of this conception that you need to have a PowerPoint. And you need to have something up on the screen. And you need to have that whole presentation and all that jazz. Do you find that is an expectation, now particularly? Or is the PowerPoint kind of passe?
charlotte
I don't think that's an expectation, I think it adds to the virtual component, probably more so than ever. More than with a live in person presentation, just because of everything we talked about with trying to keep the viewers attention, trying to make things interesting here on the TV screen, computer screen. All that. So I think having that PowerPoint can only embellish.
Lauren
Okay, I think I rest my case, I'm done with the questions. Phil, do you have any?
Phil
I do, I have a few more that I want to explore, because we've talked about speaking. I would love to talk about some of the other things that speakers do that you've seen them be successful in, whether it be books or programs, how are speakers, monetizing their businesses, now, if for example, speaking fees are being cut? Have you seen anything creative that speakers are doing to continue to make money in new ways?
charlotte
Yeah, well, a lot of the online coursework, they're turning their speeches into classes, and really developing their online portals, if you will, or their universities, if you will, offering those up in classes. And then if you buy, say, a monthly package, you get access to all of those things like that, to really come up with a secondary source of income.
lauren
Is that something that you would recommend someone sell to the client as like a bulk deal? So it's like I can do this talk, and I can get you, your employees access to my online course, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah? Is that normal?
charlotte
Yes. In fact, we do that with a couple of my speakers, they've got online programming. And oftentimes, we'll put that in there as you know, if they're a little hesitant on the fee, we'll add that in, say, for three months access inclusive of the fee. And then once that three months is up, then they can choose to resubscribe, which they normally do.
lauren
That's good because it's not like one and done thing it becomes, you know, the speaker actually lasts with the company for much longer than their talk.
Charlotte
Right? Right. It's like the Phil Pallen that keeps on giving, instead of just the one off speech, it's, you know, let's
hear more Phil.
phil
Well, you know, my advice to people that have made it this far in the episode, I think they should go back and listen to it from the start. There are so many little tidbits of wisdom in this conversation and ideas, I think, for seasoned speakers, but also people looking to just start out. When I think back to when I started, and by no means am I a fancy, esteemed speaker, it's always something I'm I'm working on, but when I started, I spoke for free for a year, mostly as an opportunity to travel around the world and write it off. Sometimes they covered my hotel, sometimes they covered my hotel and my flight. But I built proof of concept, you know, to show that, okay, look, I am a speaker, and I have proof I was here and I was here and I was here. And here's how that looked. Here's how that sounded. I think people should be focused on building proof of concept. And even if virtual is a little more competitive now, it's still an exciting opportunity to not have to be dependent on someone paying for your flight or paying for those expenses, etc, that present the stage is leveled for everyone to participate even in a smaller way. Would you agree?
charlotte
Yes, absolutely. I think the merging of the two worlds is very exciting. And I'm hearing about a lot of meeting planners that are going back and getting certified as digital event strategists and things just to pick up an extra skill set. I think it's going to be around for a while. So I mean, although I don't I do believe that the live in person, platform will definitely come back, because people just have that need for human interaction in the networking, but I do believe that virtue will will stick around maybe 25% at least.
Lauren
It's interesting, you bring that up because if virtual becomes the new standard, and clients get used to paying for virtual, the in person might actually be able to be even more expensive. The speaker might be able to charge more because it's going to be requiring a lot more. Hopefully, right?
Charlotte
Exactly. You know, the planner has to pay for AV and they have to pay for travel and hotel, which you know, is another reason to be able to keep it strong with your quote that you have for virtual because the client doesn't have to pay that anymore. So all those little cards that are nice to have when you need them. Yeah, for sure.
phil
Listeners, go back and listen to this episode with a notebook and a pad of paper. What do you call it? No pad, no pad, no one of those old things called, you know, a pen.
But people should go back and listen and think about how you can spend some time on you. We are so quick to give our own time to everyone else. But if you are serious about speaking, even if you are a speaker, what are the things that you could be doing to innovate more as a virtual speaker, go back and listen, people should visit your website because it's beautiful, because we designed it. And your brand is beautiful.
charlotte
It is beautiful and I'm so proud of it. And it's just all your work all over it.
Lauren
It's amazing how it's so, I don't want to pat ourselves on the back or anything, but it's still so beautiful. And it feels like it was designed very recently, which is very exciting. That's always what we strive for. Yeah, and I love your brand.
charlotte
Thank you. I love it too.
phil
We have you grouped in with our keynote speakers on our website if people want to check out your project and people should also just you know if they're interested in you they should check you out go and find you online and thank you so much Charlott.
Charlotte
Well, thank you. This was so much fun.
Lauren
Very useful information.
phil
And I'm gonna go back and listen to this conversation and make notes I'm doing that right after this.
charlotte
I can talk about it all day. There's so much good info from me. There's, there's even more we could go on forever.
Lauren
Maybe we'll get you maybe part two.
Phil
Part Two. We appreciate you Charlotte for hanging out with us on Brand Therapy.
charlotte
You are so welcome. Thanks for having me.
