119. How do you start a podcast?
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Are you ready to dive into the world of podcasting? 🎧 This episode addresses everything you need to know (and everything our hosts had wish they'd known) about starting your own podcast. Broken down into four comprehensive stages, hosts Phil and Lauren have a deep discourse about figuring out your niche, determining equipment, hiring an editor, creating a schedule, and much, much more. If you have dreams of being the next Sarah Koenig, listen up!
Episode transcription
Hey, listener before we get right into this episode, which is all about podcasting, I know you're gonna love it, our amazing editor, Igor, had a crazy idea. He said, Phil and Lauren, tell your listeners that if they're going to start a podcast and they need help with an editor, get in touch with me and I'll give them 30% of a discount off his services for the first three months. You’ve got to do it by the end of April. Igor’s website is podcastmagician.com. Get in touch with him, tell him you heard this on Brand Therapy. And good luck creating your podcast. I think this episode is going to help. Now onto the show.
Phil
Well, hello there. Welcome to Brand Therapy. I'm Phil.
Lauren
And I'm Lauren.
Phil
And this is the podcast where we help you position, build, and promote your brand's. Oh, this is so meta today, isn't it? We're having a great little informative discussion on how to start a podcast. You know that, because you've read the title of this episode so you already know. What you don't know yet, is how actionable the steps are that we're gonna give you today. because trust me, we know how to start a podcast and we know how to keep a podcast going well over 120 episodes. Well, maybe not well over 120 episodes but in and around that range.
Lauren
Yeah, yeah, we've learned a lot along the way. And I want to add that Phil, Brand Therapy is not your first podcast is it?
Phil
That's correct. I used to have a podcast called No Philter. It's actually still live if you want to go listen to it. But I was a little baby doing that. I wanted a podcast, I studied broadcast journalism, specifically the radio stream, and so for me to have an outlet like this was really fun. I'm so excited for this episode to talk very specifically about what people should do if they want to have one for themselves.
Lauren
Great. So I've outlined four key steps with starting and managing a podcast, the steps are define, structure, start and adjust. So let's go through each of these steps. And you will actually be able to speak to the specifics way better than me because I just kind of do what I'm told. But hopefully this structure will help people,
Phil
I think it will help people. But hold on, I think we need to even before this step, I think we need to give a disclaimer to people that starting a podcast is probably not a good idea for them. Controversial, I know. But I'm saying that because I'm being realistic. The number of people that start a podcast and stop because they burn out or they lose interest or they realize it's a lot more work than it seems, I think more podcasts are started and stopped and started and continued. This is not something that you should stop and start unless of course you're structuring your podcasts in seasons, which some people do, and we'll probably talk about later. But I'm actually going to dissuade you from starting a podcast unless you're starting it for the right reasons, which I'm sure we're about to talk about in this define section. That's my disclaimer, my controversial disclaimer.
Lauren
Great, I love that disclaimer. And actually, it makes me think that generally people want to start a podcast because they themselves love podcasts. And as someone who is a big fan of podcasts, I think that a good one makes you feel like you're in the room with the hosts. And it feels very tangible and very accessible, because a good host is going to make you feel like they're you are the only person that they're talking to. And so I think for that reason, when someone thinks about starting their own podcast, they might have this misconception in their mind that if they work really hard, it's going to be successful. And I hate to break it to you, but that's not the case. It's not the case at all. There's so much competition. And it's really hard to get regular passionate listeners. It's even harder to make money from it. So you've got a really really want it outside of quick wins, I guess.
Phil
Let me add to that. One reason not to start a podcast is because you like listening to podcasts. Now I personally don't listen to podcasts I tried to but I don't like listening to people talk, I prefer listening to music. And so given the choice between the two I always choose music, however so I'm not one of those people that wanted to start one because I liked listening to them. I wanted to start one I'll be honest the first time around because it was the shiny new object, and it was speaking which I like to do. So point proven. My first podcast I had to stop because I couldn't keep up with it. I just couldn't handle it all on my own. I couldn't figure out how to delegate it. And to be honest, I just, it wasn't a priority for me towards the end because I started it with the wrong goal or the for the wrong reason, because it was the shiny new object. So another reason not to start a podcast is because everyone else is doing it, because it seems like something you should be doing because other people are doing it.
Now, let me tell you the right reason to start a podcast. And this should help you define what it should be about or how you even begin. I think the right reason to start a podcast is to have a long form piece of content creation that showcases you and your best light, okay, in this case, it's conversation. But the reason should be more about you than it should be about anyone listening.
Let me clarify this. If you were to do an episode solo, you have it in your schedule, this is sanctioned time for you to be creative for you to practice your communication skills, or I should say sharpen those tools, you know those skills and communicating just like this, and then have something that you can repurpose on your other social media channels. Notice that everything I listed had to do with you, me, I should say me, US, ourselves, not a listener. And I'd add one to that. If it's a podcast format, where you have guests, it's an amazing excuse to get on the phone with someone or to connect with someone in a productive way from both parties. The guest then has a beautiful little edited piece of content they can share on their channels, which is great for you, because other people discover you. So it's great for you. Yes, it's great for the guests, but it's great for you, because that person that you just had a podcast interview with, they were interesting, you're both so busy, you wouldn't otherwise find time to get on the phone to catch up, quote, unquote, right.
And so the podcast is productive in so many ways. The reason I love podcasting, let me tell you, it's on our schedule, we have to do it, we have a due date. You and I Lauren Moore, get on the phone or on zoom like we are right now, record locally, you're in Vancouver, I'm in Medellin, we're totally across the world that sounds like we're in the same room. We sit here and we get creative. We think about things, we come up with ideas and process is like creating a podcast that can then be turned into a blog post, that can be transcribed for keywords online to drive traffic through to our website, that can be then turned into a YouTube script. For me, it takes a fraction of the time to have a beautiful piece of content like this created for me to then post on micro channels like Instagram, Twitter, web traffic on Pinterest, do you see where I'm going with this?
The only reason to start a podcast and summary here is because it is beneficial for you. I'll be honest, if no one listened to this podcast, not one person, I would be completely satisfied because of the value that I get from this exercise. Long explanation/rant, but I thought it was important.
Lauren
Yeah, I think everything you said makes such sense. A lot of people go into creating a podcast because they feel there's an important story to tell, or they want to flex their dream inner journalist muscles. And that's great, but it needs to be for you. It can't be for the expectation that you're going to be winning some gigantic prize or be the next cereal or whatever. Because quite frankly, the odds of that happening are less than winning the lottery, I would say. So on that sad note.
Phil
Just realistic, just realistic.
Lauren
Yeah. And I actually am glad that you brought this up because podcasting is so much work. I mean, you and I have got we've got it down pat now. But Igor, the editor puts hours into editing every week. And I have a friend who had started a podcast and she was doing the editing herself. And she told me that she stopped, first of all, she stopped now because she couldn't keep it up. It was really wearing on her. She would spend as a non professional editor, it would be about 14 hours per episode. And she was releasing episodes weekly between figuring out what she wanted to talk about scripting it, recording it and then editing herself and post like can you imagine?
Phil
No, no,
Lauren
Yeah. And so she stopped and I told Brittany that I thought that was a good idea. You have to live your life.
Phil
Yes. I mean, when I go to make a YouTube video, it takes five hours, not of me. If it took five hours of my time, I wouldn't post but that's the whole team. It takes five hours to make one video I'd say about two of those hours are me three hours of the team. But that's my limit on that. I don't have more time in the week to spend on that. So at some point, you have to go, okay, what's in it for me? And does this make sense for my business? For me, the value of podcasting is more in what we create here that can then, you know, show up in so many other places. It's very efficient and productive for me, because you and I wouldn't otherwise really have time to be creative or to casually chat about what we think. I think we learn a lot by having this.
Lauren
Yep. Yep. And for me, I get to work on speaking in complete sentences.
Phil
I was hoping you were gonna bring that up. But truly, you've said before that you think podcasting has made you a more confident communicator, in video calls, zoom, presentations, etc?
Lauren
Yeah, definitely, totally. It constantly forces me to exercise that muscle, where I want to fill silence with chatter, or when I want to start different thoughts at the same time, I actually just did it right there. But I stopped myself and thought about how I wanted to continue the sentence.
Anyway, it's super valuable. So let's get to the four steps. First, define. So I think for this one, competitive research needs to be part of defining what your podcast is all about, if you have an idea, and you think that there's an opportunity to communicate something in a way that's fulfilling for you, but also valuable for someone else, check out what else is online and make note of what podcasts you like, and maybe what you don't like. Start to figure out where that sweet spot is going to be where your podcast could fill.
Phil
Great. I think that if you decide that you're going to start a podcast, I think you should wait a month, and spend one month researching what's already out there to give you ideas on how you can be positioned a little more competitively. I would take the time to see what else is out there and actually to listen to what else is out there and get inspired on a format for you.
Lauren
Mm hmm. And I will also includes making a decision about whether you want to record the episode solo or whether you want a co-host I know for me personally, that I kind of check out if a podcast is just one person speaking, it gets really boring. I like when people can have chemistry. And perhaps it's a with a co host, or maybe it's with a guest every single episode. I personally find it really, really boring to hear someone just lecturing into a microphone. I don't know about you Phil.
Phil
Yeah, I am not interested. I would definitely rather listen to music.
Lauren
Great. So maybe it would be useful for us to tell listeners how we came up with the podcast idea for a Brand Therapy.
Phil
Yeah, I remember it. In fact, I was in Colombia, you were in Colombia. We were walking along the street in Bogota, you remember that? And we were like, yeah, we were like, what if we did a podcast because I had missed by this point. I had quit mine for a few months. And I had missed doing it. But I said rather than just like interviewing people, why don't we actually show create a podcast that shows our process. That's how it started.
Lauren
Yep. And we were also thinking that we wanted to provide an offering to someone so that we could help people but also be helping ourselves. Our brand audit service, which is required for everyone who works with us is expensive. And a lot of times we're getting inquiries from people who couldn't afford a brand audit. And so we were thinking that originally Brand Therapy could be an alternative where someone could get help from us if they couldn't afford an audit, and potentially listeners might be able to benefit from hearing that process. Now, I will say we ended up changing that format, but that was really the origin of Brand Therapy.
Phil
Sure was.
Lauren
Okay. So once you've defined your podcast, then you want to move over to step two, which is structure. structure is really figuring out how you are going to structure your episode, and also how to structure the way that you're going to be recording those episodes. Phil, do you have any recommendations with equipment for people?
Phil
Yes, I would say even before equipment, I think structure, just remember that everything has a beginning, a middle and an end. Okay. And so, podcasting is no different, videos are no different, beginning, middle. And so in podcasting terms, this is important, particularly if you're wanting to incorporate advertising, maybe not from the start, but maybe down the line. What's called a pre roll is that first thing that you hear in an episode, okay, normally before the intro, so on episodes we do this sometimes when we have advertisers, or you'll hear me say, hey listeners, before we get started, I want to tell you about bla bla bla bla bla, that's a pre roll. Then the intro is when Lauren and I say, Hello, welcome to Brand Therapy. I'm Phil, blah, blah, blah, right, and we go right into what we would call the interview or a discussion. In this case, this is our discussion in the middle. Some podcasts also break for an ad in the middle. Sometimes it's a banter between the two of us or it could be pre recorded, talking about a product or a sponsor, that's called a mid roll. And then the wrap at the very end is when we tie it all up in a bow, remind you, you know, remind the listener to review us and listen, you know, for another episode, sometimes we used to do this, but sometimes the podcast will give a little preview of what's coming next.
So that's generally the structure, beginning middle end. And then with a few ads sprinkled in there, normally a pre roll, or a mid roll, if you plan on having advertisers. By the way, if you don't have any advertisers, but you want to move in that direction, and get your own advertisers, or promote brands of friends of yours, just to show you incorporating that format in your own podcast, because then you can go to someone who will actually pay you and say, by the way, we have a mid roll in a pre roll spot. Listen to this episode for the example, you know, kind of smart. So that's I wanted to just speak to structure. Lauren, you asked me about equipment, right?
Lauren
Oh, yeah.
Phil
So here's my general rule of thumb with equipment. Don't go out and spend a bunch of money on a fancy microphone because guess what, you haven't earned it. Do not, mark my words, do not go out and spend hundreds or 1000s of dollars on the perfect podcast setup until you've earned it. How do you earn it, make five episodes of a podcast, make 10 episodes of a podcast, do whatever it will take to prove to me and to you that this is something you're going to keep up, then you get to go out and invest in equipment, but it doesn't have to be expensive. Okay, our microphones are expensive. They're about $500 each. But we've got 120 episodes done. Plus I deliver virtual trainings for a living. So the investment for us makes sense. Audio is very important. Also, Lauren and I we have the same microphone. So it sounds like we're sitting together in the same room, even though we are actually halfway across the world. Kind of cool, actually that we do that.
Lauren
Yeah, thank God for this microphone, because otherwise I'd be recording and to my $20 Sony wired headphones. Yeah, so does sound terrible.
Phil
Well, guess what, for a pilot episode of a podcast or an episode zero. You know what, that's totally fine. If you don't have something if you want to invest in something reasonably priced around 100, $150 range, the Blue Yeti is a great microphone that you can use. It's one that I started with before upgrading to this, we use a Heil PR40 is the microphone that we use. So I think it's on Amazon for 300 to $500. But again, you don't need this. If you're wanting a more approachable like a starter microphone. A blue Yeti microphone is one that's very popular, you can pick that up on Amazon.
Lauren
I have a question. Where does Scarlet fit into all of this? Does someone need to someone need to have a Scarlet with a microphone?
Phil
It's a good question. So normally, when you and I are recommending to our clients, for example, a tech setup we have two workflows. One is the simpler, cheaper workflow, which is the Blue Yeti. The Blue Yeti is a USB microphone, which means it'll plug directly into your computer for a more advanced setup, where you're spending a little bit more money like for a Heil PR40, which is one of the if not the best microphone out there for this type of media or content creation. This microphone, the output is an XLR, which the best explanation of this is like when you go to a concert, and there's someone up on stage that's singing, that microphone output is an XLR. It's the fanciest output. So you need a device that takes an XLR output and converts it to USB. That's what you're calling the Scarlet. That's the brand that creates the audio interface that basically we plug the fancy microphone into it, then that's the input the output is to USB which plugs into your computer. And that's got some other like text setup, you know, volume control and mute. Different kinds of things that you can see bear, you use the Scarlet I have one that's made by Shure, which is more mobile, so I can pack it in my suitcase. But yes, good question and clarification. If you're using a Blue Yeti, which is 100 and $150, it's a USB microphone, you don't need an audio interface. But if the microphone that you end up buying has an XLR output then you need an audio interface that basically converts that audio into a format that the computer can understand via USB.
Lauren
Cool now is Adobe Audition recommended.
Phil
So we use Adobe Audition to record locally our audio. Okay, so we don't just take the zoom audio, except when we have a guest. That's typically the easiest way, there's a setting in zoom for you to actually separate out the audio tracks. But anything that is recorded through a browser.
Lauren
The only way you can separate the audio tracks is if you record locally. So if you're recording automatically to the cloud, it will not happen. Trust me, I tried.
Phil
Yes. Okay, good clarification there. So when we have guests, sometimes they have a fancy microphone, sometimes they don't, we're able to in zoom, when we record locally to just click a checkbox that says record separate tracks. Even then you and I record locally directly into the computer. So it's not being processed by zoom or by a browser, that's always the best audio you're gonna get. As you said, we use Adobe Audition, because we have an Adobe Creative Cloud subscription. If you have that, then audition is the best program pretty straightforward to use. If you don't know how to do something, you can find a tutorial on YouTube. If you want a free version of that, basically, an audio software Audacity is typically the go to for recording your own audio, for free.
Lauren
Very cool. Okay, a few other structural components that I think are really important to figure out or at least create a plan for that you can adjust later. First is deciding where you're going to be storing your files and how you're going to be keeping everything organized. Particularly if you're going to be doing the pre roll, and mid roll and all that stuff, you might have lots of different audio files. And believe me, it can get overwhelming really quick, particularly if you're hiring someone to help make sense of everything and actually create the episode for you. We personally use Google Drive. We have a Brand Therapy folder, and within that we have every episode, we have a consistent naming format for all of the file folders for each episode. And within each episode, we have a naming convention for the audio files. So it's really easy for the editor we use to understand what order things should be in. One thing that we learned kind of the hard way is that the folder with all the episodes started filling up really, really, really, really quick, and it was hard to see what was coming up next in the pipeline. So I'd say about 70 episodes, and we created a published folder where basically once the episode had been published, we just dragged the contents into that sub folder, and then it was gone and we really wouldn't see it again, in the context of the other episodes that were in the pipeline.
Phil
I love that format. It works perfectly for us.
Lauren
It does.
Phil
That's all I have to say on that topic. You set those rules, and I just do what I'm told.
Lauren
Yes. Okay. So the second and potentially final structure component that I think is important to discuss is an editor. Do you think it's important for someone to have an editor?
Phil
Yes, if you can afford it, right? If this endeavor is worthy of the investment, I don't think you should be editing your own audio. I mean, unless you're a student, and you're just getting started, and you want to learn. Beyond that I think it's not the best use of your time. I think also you don't have the skills to make the podcast sound as good as it probably could. When it's in the hands of someone as capable and amazing as our editor, Igor. If you need an editor, you can message us and we can introduce you to Igor, he’s amazing.
Lauren
Plus, you've got better things to do. I think it's more important for the host to think about how they're going to be promoting the podcast and drumming up sponsors, than spending time doing something that maybe you're not that good at in the first place,
Phil
I'll be the first to admit, I feel the pressure of putting so much time and energy into creating this. And then by the time it comes time to promote it, I sometimes fall short, because we put so much energy into just making it this is not a small project. This is something that is a lot of time and energy and investment. Hundreds of dollars every month just to have an editor I mean, that's so know what you're getting into.
Lauren
Okay, step three, start. I'd say that this is probably the most challenging of the steps Believe it or not, because once you start, you can't stop. So I would say, first of all, create a plan, decide how often you're going to be releasing your episodes, choose a day of the week, whether it's every other week on that same day or every week, and really make a release plan. For us, I can tell you that from experience we did batch recording, so we would record anywhere from four to even 10 episodes a day at the beginning, it was intense. And it was hard, especially because at the time we were doing it in person, and we'd be sharing a mic stuck in the same room for that long, hunched over this microphone. But it did make life a lot easier, because then you could just release episodes on autopilot. Now, Phil, and I will release our own solo episode between every pre recorded episode. And sometimes it's tough because things will come up and we'll run out of time to record and we'll frantically have to do one the week before it's supposed to release. So I just would say that when you start, really, really have the intention of not stopping and create a plan so that way, there are no hiccups along the way with posting.
Phil
Yes, I mean, people will stop listening to your podcast if there aren't new episodes, and episodes age quickly, which is why you need to have a plan to be able to repurpose somehow that quality content you're creating. It needs to In my opinion, it needs to live beyond just a single podcast episode. The other alternative if that feels stressful to you, the other alternative that I see some creators do is they create seasons, okay, so if you need a, you know, a month or two months or three months, whatever as a break, fine, you can create episodes in seasons almost as a series. But that doesn't mean that you get to take a bunch of time off and then come back and expect those listeners one year later to be there and engaged and listening. If you stop, so will they. So even if you're creating in seasons, you still need a plan, you still need that plan that Lauren's talking about.
Lauren
And the final and fourth step is adjust. So as I mentioned earlier, we ended up changing the format of our episodes. I can't remember exactly when, but we changed it to something that was a bit more sustainable and a bit more exciting for us to be able to keep going with BranTherapy. I think that if we had stuck with that original format, we would have stopped posting and recording a long time ago. Don't you Phil?
Phil
Yeah, I mean, the idea was great at the beginning where we would get on the phone, and we would work through some challenges. But after 50, I think was 55 episodes, we started to answer the same, same same question. And it wasn't inspiring for us anymore. Which means it's not something we look forward to doing, which means when we were doing it, we weren't enjoying it. And that was obvious in the content. So yeah, pivot, adjust, evolve and have no shame in that. Yes, your audience is important, but it needs to work for you, too.
Lauren
Yep. And then I would say that, that as part of the adjusting step or phase, which should continue for a long time, probably for the life of your podcast, by the way, is to really listen back to the episodes. This is the toughest part for me, because I don't like the sound of my own voice. But I do force myself to listen not to every episode, but to many of them to see if there's room for improvement to get some ideas. So really put myself in the shoes of the listener and see if there any other improvements that we might be able to implement in future episodes.
Phil
Yeah, great.
Lauren
Okay, those are the steps.
Phil
Have we had all of your steps?
Lauren
I think so.
Phil
We've hit them. Well, fantastic. So now we want to hear from you. You've heard from us on how to do this. Are you going to do it? Where are you going to begin? Let us now #brandtherapy. I'm @philpallen
Lauren
I'm @thelaurenmoore
Phil
And by the way, you're still here, you're still listening, we would love a huge favor from you. If you could leave us a review go to ratethispodcast.com/brandtherapy in there you'll have some choices on where you can leave a review. Five star, five star, that helps other people discover this podcast that we work really hard to create. We really appreciate you taking the time to learn from us right here on Brand Therapy, and we'll see you back next time.
Lauren
Bye, bye.
Phil
See you later.