120. Can anyone be successful with Facebook ads? (f. Rory Stern)
Are you interested in Facebook ads but scared to potentially lose money? 💸 Never fear—because we've got Facebook ads expert Rory Stern on Brand Therapy! In this informative episode, hosts Phil and Lauren grill Rory on all things Facebook ads. The crew discusses risk tolerance, establishing proof of concept, creating goals, and much, much more. This episode is packed with information (and one of the longest Brand Therapy episodes to date!), so buckle up.
Episode transcription
Phil
Well, hello there. Welcome to Brand Therapy. I'm Phil.
Lauren
And I'm Lauren.
Phil
And this is the podcast where we help you position, build and promote your brands. We're happy you're here. Welcome. Welcome, welcome. Today is a great episode with a great guest. Someone unlike previous episodes, that we didn't actually know that well going into it, he was a stranger. What a fantastic conversation we've had with our new friend, Rory.
Lauren
Here's what I love about Rory, aside from his awesome gregarious personality, Rory knows what he's talking about. Facebook ads are really, really scary, especially for small business owners, because it kind of feels like you're gambling. You don't know if you're gonna get your money back. And I love how Rory really, really breaks down the concrete steps to successfully run Facebook ads. And he doesn't hold back from saying what's wrong with them either and what the risks are.
Phil
I know, it felt a little bit, well we jokingly call this Brand Therapy because sometimes people come on and we talked through yes, branding challenges, logos, websites, positioning, but also it becomes kind of therapy. This was like therapy for me, because ads is something that I've wanted to do for so long, and he kinda gave me some confidence in something that I've been so scared to start because I don't know if they're going to be successful. There's a moment in this conversation when he says, Phil, you have proof of concept, you should probably check it out. So Rory, why are we talking about the conversation, and let's just get to it. Let's just get to our conversation with Rory.
Lauren
Let's do it.
Phil
Here is our conversation with Rory.
Lauren
We basically want to pick your brain on behalf of our listeners who are mainly freelancers and small businesses about Facebook ads. And I think that Facebook ads have kind of this unfair reputation of being exclusively used by major corporations or people who can spend $100,000 a day. And so we would just love to focus this episode on how Facebook ads can be used by an average person, not a gigantic Corporation. So first off, I was looking at your LinkedIn before the call, and notice that you had this fantastic claim in your title that you can help people convert cold traffic into more leads. So I just would love for you to get the high level overview to start of how you could take someone who's a stranger and turn them into a business lead through Facebook ads, how does that even work?
Rory
Let's first get clear on what we're defining as a lead. So I will turn this around on you real quick, before I define a lead, what do you consider a lead when you read that?
Lauren
I consider a lead to be someone who could potentially engage with your business. So it doesn't necessarily need to be a client, but it could be someone who's buying an ebook, basically giving money to your business in some some way.
Rory
Got it. Okay, so we're gonna have some fun, and we're gonna start high level and we can drill down and you can interrupt me, I love casual. So interrupt me, I'll do my best to keep my line of thinking but interrupt away and ask questions. So the reason that it says will help people convert cold traffic into more leads, Facebook is what we consider cold traffic. And the definition of cold traffic is really somebody who is not aware of you, not aware of your product, not aware of your service, not aware of your offer, and may not even be consciously thinking about what it is that you do when they come across your ad. That's cold traffic versus warm traffic, which would be search ads, so Google ads are I mean, they're intent ads.
That's what I was trying to say. When you go to Google and type in a keyword, you're looking for something and what an ad pops up, it's contextual. It can make sense if whoever's serving up the ad is showing you the right thing. Facebook is what we call interruption marketing. People go to Facebook, typically to connect with friends and family, interact with groups, escape reality, which I kind of scratch my head and really wonder if that's even possible anymore in today's climate with going to Facebook to escape, but you think about it the average user is there to share cat means to catch up with friends and family to update on their kids and their their life.
There's a subset of us who use it for business right, then freelancers I mean hack we any business owner, really can use Facebook, even organically to generate a brand to build a brand to build a conversation, it's great. One other thing I wanted to add about differentiating cold traffic and warm traffic, which there is warm traffic on Facebook, too, we'll get to that. But some of our clients will come to us and say, well, hey, our offer has worked to cold traffic before. I go, wait a minute, what are you calling cold traffic? Oh, well, you know, when an affiliate promotes our offer to their email list. No. Timeout. That's not cold traffic, that is endorsed traffic. If somebody literally sends you an email, or runs an ad, like let's say, I mean, hey, someone's gonna say to me, what podcast can you recommend? Well, I was on this podcast with Phil and Lauren, you should check it out, that's endorsed traffic. My word to somebody who trusts me, it's very, very compelling and powerful, and I don't say that with ego, I say that hypothetically.
So an affiliate emailing you saying, oh, my gosh, you have to go sign up for this webinar, it's going to blow you away. That's warm traffic. So cold traffic is somebody completely unaware of you, and I want to separate here a little bit. I know the podcast talks about branding. Do you do any direct response marketing, or is that built into what you guys do?
Lauren
Not totally. So we focus on branding, and also on content creations. But honestly, part of why we're so excited to have you on the podcast, is that Facebook advertising other than growth campaigns, actual conversion campaigns are kind of a bit of a mystery to us, just because it's so hard for me to justify to a client to spend money on ads that you might not necessarily get back. Hopefully you do if the campaign goes right, but it's always been kind of like a little nerve wracking to us to suggest that.
Rory
Yep. So this will be awesome. We'll demystify all of this. So thank you for that explanation, because what we tend to do with our advertising, so myself, my company, my team, we're all direct response advertisers. And what that literally means is, we want to be able to track every activity that we can, to the best of our abilities, to what led to a lead, what led to a sale. So when we start out with direct response advertising on Facebook, to a cold audience, there's one goal, generate a lead, generate a sale. It's not so much about branding. Branding can and will happen as a result of running advertising, but that's never my goal. Never, ever, ever, ever my goal at the beginning.
And some of that Lauren, is tied to what you just said. How do I justify spending money, if I don't know that I'm going to get a return? It's scary. It's really, really scary. So the reason why we say we help convert cold traffic into leads, is that with cold traffic, with somebody who doesn't know you, who isn't necessarily looking for what you have, how do you move them psychologically, to become a lead or a buyer? How do you move them to become a lead or a buyer instantly? Because that too, is direct response? I'm not looking for, can I generate a lead? That becomes a buyer in 7 days, 14 days, 30 days? That's great. I'll take that. But I'm structuring my advertising campaigns to generate a lead or a sale, right away. Like point of contact, I want you to see my ad and take action.
And that all boils down to conversation and how you speak to the Facebook user.
Lauren
Okay, a lot to unpack there. So I'll first start off at the base at the most basic level. Do you have to spend a lot of money to convert someone into a sale immediately?
Rory
Yes, and no. So here's what I want to do. I want to dispel a myth, as we talk about this, depending upon who you listen to pay attention to, there are a lot of people that want us to believe that Facebook ads are so easy, and that if you spend $1, you can get $2 $3 $4 $5 $10 back. I hate that because there's nothing easy about what we do. Is it possible to achieve a return like that? Oh, you better believe it. But that takes a lot of time. A lot of investment, a lot of resources. Now, can somebody out of the gate, turn on ads today and make that kind of return tomorrow? Sure. We've done it for our clients. We've done it ourselves, but it takes a lot behind the scenes. So who can be successful with Facebook ads right out of the gate to earn their money back?
Typically, it's somebody who has been in business for quite some time and knows their numbers inside and out. What do I mean by that? They know what they can spend to acquire a lead. They know what they can spend to make a sale. They know that a sale is worth X amount of dollars, so we're talking average order value. They know that over 30 days, 60 days, 90 days, 180 days, whatever it is, they know what a lead is worth to them lifetime value. Most people don't know that. So when you hear people lead off with Facebook ads are easy, it gives false hope, and it makes people scared and it makes people weary. And it makes you wonder, can you start out with a small budget? Yes, you absolutely can.
So again, for fun, Lauren, Phil, what's a small amount of money that you want to know if you can spend on Facebook and be successful?
Phil
Well, we could use me as an example here, actually. So this year, I've launched three online courses to my own list. But I have not yet crossed that kind of bridge to the next level of getting this course in front of people who don't already know me. So I launched three courses, Content mastery, Email mastery, and Instagram mastery, the most successful course has been Content mastery. So teaching people how to create a content workflow, and not lose a bazillion hours. So I would love to run ads to promote this course and get it in front of people who maybe are not on my list or on my Instagram, and I sold the course, launch price was $99. The list price, like the full price is $299. A few people have purchased it from YouTube videos that I have where I put a promo code in the description and they get 50% off. So I would love to sell this course around the $150 range. And let's say how many have I sold total, over 100 120 or 130? courses to my own list. So I don't know, what should my budget be a couple $1,000? I don't know. I have no idea.
Rory
This is fantastic. And I really thank you for having this in your back pocket.
Phil
I mean, I'm just being selfish.
Rory
Well, yes, you're welcome. You're getting advice from me great. But we're going to interact. And it's always best to talk about this stuff as plain as we possibly can with something real and concrete. I will warn you, I'm going to ask you some questions that are critical to answer to give you the best guidance and advice. Because this is your business, and because this is your podcast, if you don't feel like answering anything, don't feel like you have to and don't feel like I'm putting you on the spot. We can work our way around things. I'm just giving that disclaimer for whatever reason I get that you're transparent, and you seem really cool. So let's just get that out of the way.
Phil
Great. I'm gonna answer your questions. I think for our listeners that have taken time to listen to this episode, I think the specifics will help. So I'm happy to answer any question.
Rory
Okay. So let's look at some things here that we have that let's just say for instance, I'm going to run through my I hate saying sales call script. But for lack of a better term, we're going to run through my sales script of all the things that I need to know from you and that I want to hear from you. And one of the great things is you've sold over 100 units of this. Why is that great? I mean, it's great for you, your stuff is getting out there, you're making money. But that's a good number that you don't sell 100 units of anything by dumb luck, usually, at least in our small space of direct response advertising or, or course creation. So congratulations. That's really cool. Your course is listed at $299, you want to sell it for $150. That's awesome. How much are you willing to spend to make that $150 sale?
Phil
I would say when I thought about, for example, setting up the course with affiliates, which again, is one of those things I've been meaning to do and I've been pushing it off, I thought well if I sell it for $150, I can give the affiliate around $50. That's 30%, roughly. That's pretty high for affiliates. I think affiliates is normally 20 to 30, but why not, if someone sells it? I don't know, is that helpful?
Rory
Very helpful.
Phil
So up to $50 of that $150 given that the majority of these courses were sold at $99, so I'm still making the same amount that I'm used to.
Rory
Awesome. Okay. Next question. Is this an all digital course where it's pretty much all profit except for hosting your time to create it, yada yada?
Phil
Correct. So what if I asked you could we push you to 50% to affiliates? Would you pay $75 to make 75?
Phil
Yes.
Rory
Okay. Now, the next good answer, by the way. Next question. Do you have upsells after you sell this course?
Phil
I do. Yeah, the upsells are like discount codes for the other courses that I think they should have since there are three total.
Rory
And what do the other courses cost?
Phil
They're exactly the same.
Rory
Okay? And because somebody is buying it after they've already purchased one course, are we offering them a discount or an incentive to get it, or do you want full price, you know, ie 150 bucks.
Phil
I think I have it set to be $99 for another course.
Rory
All right, awesome. So you just based on this conversation, right now, you have the makings to be successful with Facebook ads. I say the makings, because nothing is tested. I'm not looking at your funnel, I don't know what it looks like, I don't know conversion numbers. There's lots of stuff that we need to figure out. So let's unpack why I'm saying this.
The more money you can spend to acquire a customer, the more successful you're going to be. So can you sell $150? course for $50? Yes, you can, I'd feel a lot more comfortable if I knew we could spend 75. But we don't know what it's going to cost. We won't know until we run ads to it. The only thing we can go off of is sort of historical data across industries of which we've run ads over the years, so we have internal benchmarks. And when we think about an info product, we'd like to see roughly 50% being able to go towards your ad, because that's a marketing budget. It could cost more, it could cost us $130, to sell that $150 course. So now you're making $20 per course, that's probably not as exciting. But when you factor in, okay, I've got other courses now that they're going to buy, that now raises your average order value, potentially.
Let's say after that, do you offer anything else? Do you have mentorship? Do you have masterminds? Do you have continuity programs, any kind of membership, anything at all?
Phil
We don't have a membership. But we do offer a brand audit. Now the price goes up quite a bit. If we're doing a brand audit one on one with a client, it's $1500. That also has an add on for a social media component to it to make it $2500. But yeah, the price goes up a fair bit.
Lauren
Yeah. And that would basically take someone from student of Phil Pallen, collective to client of Phil Pallen Collective.
Rory
So there you go. Now we're upping the stakes. You have what is called considerably, quote unquote, high ticket. Anything over 1000, you know, high ticket 5000 25,000, you're now in the range of, okay, if I can acquire a student for let's just even just call it 150 bucks, breakeven, you walk away with $0 earned from your advertising, you get, let's say, $150, let's see 10 students $150 to get them that's $1500, you sell one of them into the brand audit. Now you've made $1500, right? Because we've spent $1500, to make that $1500. And now one student turning into a brand audit is $1500.
If I'm looking at your website properly, and we look at brand audit, brand identity, photography, brand execution, website design, content strategy, I want to think either your other services cost just as much or possibly even more, is that fair to say?
Lauren
Yes, they cost generally, for the full brand identity website photography package beyond the brand audit, it's usually starts at around $15,000.
Rory
Awesome. If I say to you, would you be willing to spend $150 to acquire $150 front end sale, knowing that one of those people could turn into $15,000? Would you spend that much?
Phil
Yes.
Rory
Okay. So that's really what it comes down to. Now, I want to take a moment to back up here. I know we've probably gone a little bit off the rails, but and we'll get back to it. But what I also want to say is I want people listening, they may not be where you are. So this is about you, Phil, this is about your brand. This is about your business. You absolutely have what it takes to run paid traffic. But as I said, there's a lot of stuff we have to figure out along the way. So are you going to be at breakeven or profitable within 30 days? Possibly, but not likely. Sixty days, getting closer to likely but not sure. Ninety days, 90 days, you're going to figure a lot of stuff out and be well on your way. That's that's usually the timeframe when we sign any client 90 day agreement, because there's a lot to figure out with paid traffic and we'll get into all of that in a minute. So I want to see if we can back up a little bit and figure out how do we break all this down? Before I do that Phil Lauren does anything about what I just explained. jumped out at you too. Hey, cowboy slow down. We need to get this answered first.
Lauren
No keep teaching us, keep explaining it.
Phil
It's generally hard to find this kind of transparency online about ads. That's why I think this is so valuable, because these are things that I've thought about. But there's so many unknowns, that it's prevented me from pulling the trigger, or even allocating the time in my schedule to continue figuring this out. Because of the variables that exist, I think, no, I'm going to move on to a task that I can have a finite ending.
Rory
Yeah, it's tough. It's frustrating. And it's really hard to buy into it and believe it and feel good about it when you have all these people saying, oh, it's easy. Turn $1 into $5. And you're like, but wait a minute, I can't even spend $1,000 a month, I can't spend $500 a month. So this brings back to your original question, which was, you know, how much do you have to spend? I’m going to answer that in one second. What I want to address first is something you sent over pre show, just sort of rough ideas of what you want to discuss, which is, how does someone know what to spend? Or what should you spend?
So I believe in eliminating as much risk as humanly possible when it comes to making decisions in business. And while we can't eliminate all risks, what I do believe we can do is eliminate a great amount of it by saying, what's the worst case scenario that I'm comfortable with? When you're able to answer that, it's no longer risk? Because you've already come to the fact that yeah, I can do this. And if this happens, no big deal. So anytime someone says to me, Rory, what's the budget that I should spend on ads? We have to look at this from two different perspectives.
Number one, if you're just starting out, and you're not sure what you're doing, the question becomes, how much can you comfortably spend, and lose, getting $0 back and not be stressed?
Lauren
I love that. And this goes right back to what you'd mentioned, kind of at the beginning of this call, is that all too often people feel like Facebook ads are this guaranteed return I can think of a number of clients on both hands that have said to us are we're working together. Oh, I don't need to worry about my content. I'm going to be doing Facebook ads after we launch, stuff like that. And so I think that is so brilliant Rory.
Rory
Well, thank you. Thank you. So let's just say, can you spend $500? That's what I'll do with a lot of people, can you spend $500, and not get it back and not be upset, not be stressed? I mean, certainly, if it's your last $500, don't even think about spending it. And jokingly, don't let your spouse, your partner, whoever spend an amount of money that they're not going to be upset either. So is it $500? Is it $1,000? And this is a month, by the way, $500 $1,000, $5,000, $10,000. And I just said it's a month, it could be a week, one week, we could do it. Right? It doesn't have to be a monthly budget, it could be, hey, I'm going to run ads between Monday and Sunday, and I'm going to spend $500. And if I get nothing back, I'm okay with that. So there we go.
We've just got rid of the risk. How much are you willing to spend? How much can you afford to lose? Great, we'll come back to that in a second. The other side of the coin is always when clients come to me and they say, well, Rory, what's the starting budget? Starting budget I want when you get to me, is a minimum of 5 to $10,000 a month. So you're spending 150 to $300 a day to run ads. Now, mind you, I'm working with far more advanced clients than most people, than most business owners, than most freelancers. Honestly, at this point, if I were to, you know, be really transparent, I don't even think that's the right word, but like our ideal client, I want you to be spending 50 to $100,000 a month on ads, before I talk to you.
Lauren
And that's because in order for your team to do your job, you need to be testing. And the way that you can test with Facebook ads is by spending money, right?
Rory
Yes and no. So this is not where I thought I'd go, but it's important for the audience to hear. If you've worked with your clients at all, if you've shared with them, I would suspect you do from the vibe I'm picking up, the more money a client can spend, certainly on your services, the higher price, typically the better client you're getting.
Lauren
Definitely, typically.
Rory
Typically the business owner that can spend $5,000 a month is at a different place business wise and mentally than someone who can only spend 1000. Same thing with someone who can pay 10 or $15,000 a month to a service provider versus someone who can pay five, there are different levels. And the point that I said this wasn't where I was going, but it's important for people to hear is media buying is all about mindset. That's why we get rid of the risk at the beginning by figuring out how much can you spend, how much can you lose. It's a mindset thing. There's no emotion. I mean, there's an asterisk next to that. I mean, there's definitely emotion there, but you need to be able to separate that emotion out. Because the thing with media buying is just like the stock market, you're gonna win, you're gonna have good days, you're gonna have bad days, can you stomach the bad days to get to the good days, hopefully, we have more good days than we do bad days.
And unlike the stock market, with media buying, we can have a little bit more control over things based on how we read and interpret the numbers. It’s still reading tea leaves to a degree, but you have to know that we're going to have bad days. So for instance, if we go back to this whole put $1 in get $5 out, a lot of people a lot of course creators, coaches consultants believe that we should be able to be profitable on Facebook ads every single day. No, I don't know any company that is profitable, every single day of the year. Right? So you have to be of the mindset of, listen, there are good days or bad days, there are good weeks or bad weeks. They're good months, they're bad months. Are you building a business? Are you building your freelance project? I don't even know the right word for it. I was once a freelancer, I should know.
Are you setting yourself up for the long term, meaning that you're taking money, you're putting it aside, you're investing, you know, you're creating a nest egg, you're not dollar in dollar out every day, that's building something. A lot of people that get into this just expect like it's an ATM, it's a cash machine. It's not how it works, not even on the best days. So let's go back to this risk reversal. And how much should you spend? Can you spend $5 a day and get results with Facebook ads? Yes. Can you spend $10 a day and get results with Facebook ads? Yes. This is where I think Phil, you made a comment earlier about how you've sort of moved on because you have to figure stuff out. And it's hard to figure stuff out if you don't know what to look at. And I think that's where a lot of people run into problems. I can spend $5 a day, $10 a day, $100 a day, $1,000 a day, and I know exactly what I'm looking for. And this is also another reason why I say you have to be comfortable with what you're losing and know that you're going to get or potentially, I shouldn't say know, that there's a potential that you'll get zero back. Because the good news is forgot about this. The good news is, you're never going to get zero back. You're going to get data back.
Lauren
Oh, I love that.
Rory
And that data is so valuable. And that's another mindset thing. You have to look at this as in yes, you know, ultimately, as a business, your outcome is I want to generate revenue, and I want to become profitable. And the reason why we say how much can you spend and how much can you lose is because there's a gift at the end. And that gift is data. And ultimately you start to find out, do I have the right audiences that I'm targeting? How do they respond to my image or my video? How do they respond to my ad copy? Do they come to my website? Do they opt in for my freebie? If you're going straight to sale, do they add to cart? I mean, ultimately what we're looking for is a purchase. But there's all these micro commitments beforehand, that give you an idea of where things are headed.
If you've got, let's say 50 clicks, so let's just go with $50. Fifty dollars, 50 clicks, $1 per click, and I've gotten 10 opt ins, that's $5 a lead if I did my math, right. So a little bit on the higher side for a lead from a paid ad, but that's respectable. Would you pay $5 for a name and email address that you can market to over and over again, who could be worth 250, 1500 or 15,000, down the road?
Lauren
Definitely.
Phil
Okay, yeah.
Rory
Now, let's say same $50, same 50 clicks, but now you've gotten two opt ins. So you've gotten opt ins, but now your cost per lead is significantly higher. So you could look at yourself and say, oh, I'm a failure, I can't get this to work. Or you could go, okay, it's not working the way that I want, but I've seen people take some action. Now we need to figure out where is the hole in this funnel, you have to treat it all like a funnel, it's all a funnel, all the numbers will always go down. So you start with your clicks, you get to your opt ins, you get to your add to carts, your purchases, your upsells, etc, fewer, fewer, fewer fewer people along the way. You have to figure out okay, where's the gap? Where's the hole that I need to fill? So if you're sending the same amount of clicks, and you're not getting the right number of opt ins, you have to figure out okay, is there a problem with my opt in page? What's the opt in percent? Maybe it's not the opt in page, maybe it's the targeting. Am I going after the right audience? Am I using the right words. So that's where you start to play around with and that is a tough skill to master. On top of, or add to it, that you have to be in the mindset to know you didn't fail. You just haven't gotten the result that you want yet, and now you need to figure out how to get it. Mindset again.
It's all about mindset. It's all about figuring things out on this journey. Doing it on your own, I would have been like Phil, and been like, I'll do it later. I don't have time for that. But now mentoring, learning how to do it, it makes so much sense. You just have to have the stomach for it.
Lauren
It seems to me you need to have the right mindset for ads, obviously, you need to have something digital, ideally that you're selling, correct?
Rory
Not necessarily. We've sold tons of physical products ecommerce supplements etcetera.
Lauren
Okay, great. And then it does seem like having some sort of proof of concept outside of Facebook ads is important, so that's part of why you got excited when you heard Phil had sold over 100 of his courses. Right?
Rory
It's helpful. And I'm glad you brought that back up. Because there is something that I think you mentioned, Lauren, when we were talking about that, that I wanted to circle back to and I didn't. We as a team, it went back to you know why we work with people who have a certain budget who can afford a certain fee. When I said we've started with clients, literally the bottom for us the minimum $150 a day, at 30 days a month, that's $4500, you need to be able to spend that on ads. Typically, people who are doing that have figured stuff out. But I mean, again, you're only spending $4500, you're still trying to figure out how do I get my business profitable. You're barely a six figure company, to a large degree, if you're doing that. And that's a generality, I know, there are always exceptions to the rule.
The point is, my team and I are following the same math layout I just gave you on how you break this down, we can help people get to profitability, the problem becomes it just it can take longer, and it becomes more stressful on both sides. And I say it becomes more stressful on both sides. Because I actually care about clients success’. I don't want to take money from people who can't afford it who are going to be stressed. So now imagine taking an unproven offer, or a small proven offer, trying to amplify that message on paid traffic, because that will pay that's what paid ads are it's a megaphone and amplifies your message. So now they're stressed out because they're spending money and they're not getting the results that they want. I'm stressed out because they're stressed out. On top of it, I'm stressed out because it's not working. And that starts to boil up and create a lot of frustration.
Lauren
Yeah, of course.
Rory
So it's just one of those things where can you start with something completely unproven and get it to work? Absolutely. One hundred percent you can. The difficult part is, do you have the stomach for it. In fact, I tell people flat out and I make this bold claim, we can get any offer to work to paid traffic, if you have the budget and the stomach to do it. Do you know what's missing from that equation, time.
I didn't say we can do it in X number of months, it could take a year, it could take three years. And at that point, you really just go it's not going to work. But it's a numbers game. And if you follow the numbers, the numbers will get you to where you want to go. It just it becomes like a restaurant. You know, the number one reason that 90% of restaurants don't last more than a year, under capitalization. They don't have enough money to put into it. That's the problem with paid ads is a lot of people don't have enough money to put into it to get it to work. Especially when people tell you all the time, oh, it's easy. No. It's not easy. It's hard.
Phil
I love how you're keeping it real. You've kept it real for us. I wrote down the title of this episode. By the way, normally, Lauren writes the titles of these. And I feel like what you've given us is essentially the questions to ask ourselves, here's the title, how anyone can be successful on Facebook ads. Really, I feel like that's the question you've answered, and we so appreciate that.
Rory
I may take that and spin a variation off of it that way, I don't steal your title, and make that a book.
Phil
Listen, if this is win, win, we're the branding experts, you're the Facebook ads guy, you're the expert on that. Okay, we help each other out. That's how this works. That's how this relationship works.
Rory
I like that.
Phil
Where can we get more of you, Rory, where can we find you online? How do we get more and more and more?
Rory
I always tell people to go to Facebook, look up RFS Digital Media. It's the Facebook page we don't really use a lot of right now. I'm trying to think we have helpwithads.com is a direct way to connect with myself and my team. That's probably the best way. And I'm hesitating because I'm talking to brand people, and I'm like I'm supposed to have an opt in or something for people to get more stuff.
Lauren
No way, helpwithads.com is allowing people to claim a free 30 minute diagnostic call. So I would say that is better than a freebie.
Rory
Oh, I like that. All right, fantastic I feel good already.
Phil
You've also proven yourself with the amazing information you've shared. I thought it was really fun that we actually took my course and used a real example. I'm not sure that I've ever read, you know, a case study that was a true example like that with full transparency, so thank you for going through that exercise with us and for sharing imparting all of this incredible knowledge on us on Brand Therapy.
Rory
Well, my pleasure, thank you for having me. And thank you for a fun conversation. This was really enjoyable.
Lauren
Awesome, thanks so much Rory.
Rory
My pleasure. Take care, guys.
