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Itching to make more sales? 💳 Then you’re in for a fun episode! Hosts Phil and Lauren dish on the techniques they personally use to intrigue, convert, and secure clients. From adopting a problem-solving mindset to creating a pipeline that limits decision fatigue, you’ll be ready to tackle your small business' sales like a champ!

Phil

Well, hello there. Welcome to Brand Therapy.

I'm Phil.

Lauren

And I'm Lauren.

Phil

And this is the podcast where we help you position, build and promote your brand. Promote your brand is probably how I'd summarize the focus of this little episode you decided to join us in. Maybe you saw the word sales in the title of this episode. And I think what I love about this topic, even though it's not admittedly not my favorite topic in the world, it's absolutely essential for our business. It's essential for your business. This term is relevant to every single solopreneur business. Yeah, I mean, real entrepreneur, everyone, This affects everyone. And so we're talking about it today. We Lauren and I both tackle this topic together, we have our own kind of individual responsibilities as part of this aspect of our business. But we actually do it quite well. You know, if we look back and look at our conversion, and all these other fancy terms, we do well, and we thought we'd just share some insight with you today on this topic.

Lauren

Yes, I am just pulling up our dashboard here. They got some hard data to set the scene.

Phil

Hmm, hard data to set the scene.

Lauren

Yes. Okay.

Phil

You love hard data?

Lauren

Yes. Phil, would you like the data to be for 2021 so far? Or would you like it to be of all time?

Phil

Oh, I kind of want it to be all time.

Lauren

Okay, now, just a preface. It's all time since we started using a Pipedrive to track. So it's for about a year, I think.

Phil

I think one year is good, let's say roughly the last year.

Lauren

Okay. Okay, great. Pulling up the data. Here we go.

Phil

The results are in.

Lauren

Okay, so of all types of or for brand audits, our win rate is 44%. And that includes all of the random inquiries that are on the website, from people that we never hear from again.

Phil

That's incredible.

Lauren

Pretty, pretty solid. After the brand audit, the client pipeline, our win rate is 83% over the past year.

Phil

That's incredible. I didn't think it was that high.

Lauren

Isn't that bananas?

phil

Yeah. Let’s set the stage here as well. These are the words that describe our services. The brand audit is a 90 minute consultation, it costs $1500. It is the first thing we do with anyone. We will not work on your brand or with you until a brand audit is done. If you're a client that's coming back and we haven't done one in the last I'd say three years, then we make you do it again. And so then when we work one on one with clients, I'd say it starts at $15,000. It goes right up, right up right up 20, 25, 30 for a particular project, depending on what's involved. So that and a client win rate of 83%, I think is very high. So I think all of that to say you could learn some stuff from us today,

Lauren

Hopefully, I mean, I do not claim to be a sales expert whatsoever. But there have been some really incredible learning moments along the way to develop a sales process that at least works for us.

Phil

Let's start.

Lauren

Let's start. Okay. So I would say the number one thing with sales that has really, really helped us, and particularly Phil, because he feels a little icky about sales sometimes is to think of sales as a way to solve a problem. As soon as you make that mindset shift, and think about sort of matching someone with a solution or solving a problem that they're experiencing, it makes it less personal, and it feels less like you're kind of like selling yourself and more about finding a solution.

Phil

Yes, it's good advice. I mean, I have a good relationship with money, but I have some insecurities around and maybe it's just the nature of the business. It's in my name. And so I feel uncomfortable talking about money and sales. I think just because I still think of it somewhat personally, even though I shouldn't. That is where I lean on you for help, because I think you're able to see it a little more objectively than me. And that's my own kind of insecurity around that and maybe other business owners where the business is in their name, maybe they feel that way.

Lauren

It's uncomfortable. It can be uncomfortable, but I think at least for me, I genuinely want to help solve problems for people. I really like fixing things and so if I feel myself getting a little uncomfortable or heated saying copywriting is gonna cost this much, I force myself to, I remind myself that.

Phil

We're solving problems.

Lauren

Yeah, we're solving problems that if we were to work together, I'm confident enough in my skills that I know I could do really great things for their business. So that's usually what I tell myself. Okay, the second lesson that I wrote down here today is that it's really important to create a system so people understand how they can work with you. And I don't just mean a list of capabilities. But I mean, an actual process for collaborating. Phil devised the entire brand audit structure. We will not work with someone as he said, until they have a brand audit. And from there, we created another system that basically takes people through a set series of services, lots of s’s there, to ultimately get them to a place where, we can do our best work. A lot of people want to hop to social media and Instagram, before they even have a brand. That doesn't work for us. That sets us up for failure, it sets them up for, you know, losing money, because they're paying for something that isn't in the best shape of or form it could be in. So we created that process.

And I was also thinking that any time we've worked with, or I've been talking about collaborating with a brand, and it's taken a really long time to seal that deal, that's because we were too flexible. And it's because we provided proposals before they paid for brand audits. It's because we're like, okay, we can help you with this, this and this, it'll be that much, and then they start tweaking things and saying, Well, I'd like to do this. And what about this, and before you know it, you're freaking four versions into a proposal, over 15 hours deep into work and calls and they haven't paid for anything.

Phil

It's happened. I'm grateful in this moment that it's happened, because we can reflect on that and go, oh, that wasn't good. However, at the moment, if those things happen, it can be very frustrating.

Lauren

So for anyone who's selling Client Services, just please be cautious with your time. Don't send out proposals at random, make people pay you to put together a proper plan for them.

Phil

Such good advice. And we're sticklers about that. Because we've learned.

Lauren

Yeah, we've learned. It also just helps with power dynamics, too, because you are the expert, you're not a slave.

Phil

Completely. You use a great analogy when we describe the brand audit. You say that it's like a mechanic, people love analogies, it's like a mechanic popping the hood and taking a look before they do the work. And you pay that mechanic to do that consult or that, what would they call it?

Lauren

Not a consultation, but essentially, inspection inspection.

Phil

There we go.

Lauren

There we go. Okay, so the next one has been tricky for us to learn. Because I'm not the face of the business. I feel like I don't have to deal with this as much. But I have witnessed that we'll have an intro call with someone, a complimentary call, and people will really, really want to become Phil's friend. And they'll be kind of fangirling, or boying over Phil. And then after the call, when clearly I am the gatekeeper, I am the one who helps set things up. I'm the one who puts together whatever proposal it is that they're asking for, they try to become buddy, buddy with Phil, which really annoys me. They'll hit him up on Instagram, they'll send him a side email asking him for a quick call, text. So Phil, I'm curious to know, first of all, how does it feel when that happens? And then second of all, what do you do to keep things friendly, but also keep things on course?

Phil

Well, it does happen. I'd say it doesn't happen as much now as it used to, because I'm pretty firm about this. I've learned to draw boundaries, maybe more recently than not. But I'm not willing to hop on a call or I'm not willing beyond just friendly exchanges in DMS, I'm fine with that. But as soon as the conversation touches on business or deliverables, then it is necessary that you're looped into that conversation. And I have no qualms saying, you know what, I really need to make sure Lauren is looped into this. So let's have this conversation over on Slack. You know, where we're communicating with clients, like I have no, no problem doing that. You know, really, we should be talking about this so that Lauren is informed. Really, we should have this conversation because Lauren's going to have some thoughts on this. And that brings it back to business, I think. And sometimes clients aren’t doing it intentionally as well and I'm aware of that, right. I always try to give people the benefit of the doubt, particularly, you know, when we're working with someone there is like a friendly, professional kind of friendship that develops. And sometimes on Instagram is so easy to, reply to a story and start talking about something they do without even realizing it. But I think in terms, you know, organizationally, I think really we need to keep all of that dialogue in one place.

Lauren

Yeah. So for someone who works on their own, like a solopreneur, what would you recommend they do if they have a potential client, and that client keeps trying to sort of Buddy Buddy with them in a way to potentially get a discount or go outside of their typical way of working together? What would your advice for that person be?

Phil

I don't know if I have good advice for this, because I don't have to deal with it. Honestly, my advice is have someone who can play a bad cop. I know, that's not feasible for people that are in a business where they're just getting started, and it's just them. But the minute that I made it more than just me, it made it so much easier to deal with these kinds of situations. It's true. I don't think that Instagram DM’s is necessarily the place where business should be happening unless you're opening the conversation. But I will not talk business on LinkedIn direct messages and Instagram direct messages, I'll do it by email, or if they're an existing client will do it by Slack. I think it's just a good exercise in setting boundaries. So I'm not going to tell you what to do. But I think set up that workflow and respect the workflow or the own system that you've made for yourself.

Lauren

I love that. So maybe if someone starts trying to talk business on Instagram, or whatever, to a solopreneur, that solopreneur could be like, hey, love all this, I think you'll be better. Let's keep this to email. I'll circle back with you in a day or two, or whatever.

Phil

Keep it to email because I don't want to lose track of this is a good, that's a good angle. I want to make sure we don't lose track of this.

Lauren

Yeah. Great. Love it. Okay, the next thing that I've learned that's really important is to create a follow up system. Now I know, there's probably lots of different software out there that could help you with this, we use Pipedrive. However, I find that Pipedrive in terms of creating actions or follow ups, doesn't really quite work for me because you can only create a calendar event to follow up with someone.

So what I do is, I have a very set timing that I utilize, and I just create it in an Asana task. So the first thing is to have the intro call and I follow up the day of. No matter what, because I want someone to feel like I'm excited about working with them. And I think that day of is the very least that you could do if someone is considering spending a lot of money with you. Granted, if you have to call them at 6 or 7pm, I think that would be understandable. But try to do what they have if you can.

The next thing I do is if I don't hear from them, after I follow up, I set a task for myself to follow up in one week. Because sometimes a week can just be busy, or they need to think about it. I find a few follow up two to three days after, if they've had just a crazy day. It could feel kind of nagging, and or desperate. So I usually follow up in one week.

Then if I don't hear from them again, I follow up in 10 days, then if I don't hear from them again, then I follow up in four weeks.

Phil

Fantastic.

Lauren

It's very interesting, because sometimes I'll get to the 10 days or the four weeks and not hear from someone but I'll follow up and then maybe after the four week one, which is actually months after our intro call, I'll get a reply. And the key is, when you're replying, you don't want to be annoying. You don't be like, do you have any questions for me? Have you had a chance to think about this? Would you like to move forward? If someone's busy, that question is going to make them want to archive the email even more. So I think generally I try to keep the follow ups really light hearted. And I'll just say hey, just wanted to check in how's this coming along? We'd love to work with you. We're here whenever you're ready. Or we mentioned this in another episode. I love the article. Hey, saw this article, made me wonder how things are with you. We had a really great intro call, we'd love to hear what's up with you.

Don't make it about the actual sale or service itself because then that can get really annoying.

Phil

So one thing I'll add to this is another mindset point here is that a follow up, never think that this is going to be annoying for them. And I think those tips that you'd essentially just wrote the perfect follow up email in my opinion, it works well for us. Hello 83% conversion, but never go in with the mentality that it's going to be annoying for them. I love when people follow up in my inbox. Because to be honest, my inbox on a good day is a wild jungle Safari. And if someone does follow up, it increases the likelihood that I get back to them and I don't find it annoying. I don't find it annoying. I like it. So I remember that when I send a follow up because I do have some anxiety over that. I'm like, oh, I don't want to be annoying. But actually when someone follows up with me, it's because I'm buried in emails and I appreciate them resurfacing.

Lauren

Yeah, perfect, perfect. Okay, so the last thing I'll say which again has been a real learning moment for us is to limit complimentary correspondence. People become serious about your time when they're paying for your time. So be cautious with the number of free calls that you give. Now, if you've got a potential project that's worth, you know, a significant amount of money, I think you can exercise a bit more freedom with that, and you could give a few more complimentary calls. But I think it's really important to guard your time and also guard your boundaries and the respect you have for yourself and not be giving out free calls like candy to people. Thoughts?

Phil

I don't even need to say anything, because the way you summed it up is perfect. The more you give away, to reiterate, the more you give away for free, the less people appreciate what you're giving away, which in this case is time. Which in this case is the most limited resource that exists on the planet. The more you give away for free, the less people appreciate it. End of story.

Lauren

Well, I have one final thing. One final thing to say. And it's actually about pricing with sales. I would really, really encourage our listeners to make note of, just like we do, the number of yes’s, the number of no’s. And what I wish we tracked, the number of partial yes’s to services to see what people say yes to. Because if I pitch a really big project, and the client says yes to everything right away without even thinking twice about it, it makes me wonder if it was too cheap. And if it could have been more. So I think, start to track that so that you can have an understanding of what price point people pause, but ultimately say yes to.

Phil

Absolutely. Good point. Good point. And that positions you for growth. That's I mean, we've grown. And that's a big reason for how even though we don't formally track it, we're aware. It's like when someone says yes, you're excited, yut you're also like, wait a second, you didn't need to think about that. Why don't we give you a number that you need to think about? You know, but it's a good reminder for us.

Lauren

Yeah. And it's not just about squeezing someone drive for their money, of course, but it's just useful information to track in my opinion.

Phil

Absolutely. So, to recap quickly so that people can take action on this. First, sales are solving a problem.

Lauren

Second, you want to guide your client to work together in the way you want to work together.

Phil

Third, get friendly, but keep some distance for professional reasons.

Lauren

Four, create a timed follow up system that you follow for everyone.

Phil

Five, limit complimentary correspondence.

Lauren

There you have it.

Phil

No, you came up with a sixth on the fly that wasn't on the list.

Lauren

That’s not part of the system, but I guess, okay. Six, track who says yes, no, and partially yes.

Phil

Absolutely, so you can make an informed decision about your pricing in the future.

Lauren

I love this.

Phil

I could listen back to this and go wow, there's some really good ideas here for sales. We want to hear from you. #brandtherapy. I'm @philpallen.

Lauren

I'm @thelaurenmoore

Phil

Across all social media. We want to hear from you. If you took the time to listen to this, let us know. Also if you enjoyed this episode, it really helps us seriously if you take the time to pop over to the iTunes Store easier from your mobile device. Give us five star, five stars. It helps other people discover this podcast that we work really hard to create. Thank you for spending your valuable minutes with us here on Brand Therapy. We will see you back on our next episode.

Lauren

Bye bye.