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Do you truly know yourself? 😳 In this enlightening episode of Brand Therapy, you’re going to figure out the first steps to self-mastery from executive coach (and our hosts’ client!) Kendra Reddy, CPCC, PCC, CNTC. As someone who works with high-performing leaders, Kendra is a pro at helping people discover their purpose, authenticity, and strengths for better performance at work and life. If you feel like you’re caught up in the motions of life, listen and get inspired!

Phil

Hello there, welcome to Brand Therapy. I'm Phil.

Lauren

And I'm Lauren.

Phil

This is the podcast where we help you position, build and promote your brands, your brands, your brands. You may have heard a little voice there. She's about to come out on stage. Do we have a treat for you today? I mean, I love hanging out with just Lauren Moore, my friend of over a decade. We have fun in those episodes. But when we get to bring in a special guest, who has a special place in our hearts, because we're very selective about who comes on this podcast. I’ll have you know, listener, I get like 10 pitches a day for people to be on this podcast and the answer is always no. The answer is no. Unless your name is Kendra Reddy, Kendra Reddy is ready. Welcome to the podcast.

Kendra

Hello, everyone. Phil and Lauren, thanks so much for having me. I'm excited.

Phil

I know for a fact that you don't like introducing yourself. So I'm going to introduce you and then I'm sure Lauren Moore will have more to add to my introduction.

Kendra Reddy is an executive coach. Kendra Reddy is one of my favorite humans on the planet. Kendra Reddy is incredibly inspirational and I could see why it would be hard to introduce yourself Kendra, because you do a lot of things. And you're so wise on so many topics. Not only has it been a pleasure to brand you, we've worked together probably for almost a year on a few projects. I'm sure we'll talk about those. But I learn so much from you even in short conversations. We have other clients in our group coaching program that are absolutely I think to say that they're obsessed with you is not a stretch because you're so wise. So listener, you picked a great episode to listen to. Lauren, what did I leave out of this intro?

Lauren

A few specifics. Kendra works with leaders from very impressive companies. She's been working in human capital and leadership development for two decades. And she works with Scotiabank, with BMW group Canada, with Roots Canada, the Northwest company, I could go on and on and on. So the reason I bring this up is because what Kendra says is based in real life experience working with people at the top of big, big, big, big companies. So listen to every single word that she has to say in this episode.

Phil

You could go open the balcony door Lauren and sing her praises to Vancouver and I bet Kendra could hear it because

almost neighbors?

Lauren

Basically. And it's it's an honor and a privilege to be located within blocks of Kendra, let me tell you.

Kendra

And this is why I don't introduce myself because you guys do a way better job. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you and yes.

Lauren

So I'm going to kick off the slew of many, many questions that I have for Kendra by stating that something very interesting about Kendra's perspective, to me, at least in leadership is that Kendra is of the belief that you don't have to be working 23 hours a day to have an impactful career. And in fact, being an effective leader really comes down to self mastery. So I want to kick things off by hearing from you, Kendra, what is self mastery?

Kendra

It's a great question. And it's taken me years to come up with a definition of that, that encompasses that because self mastery is a huge concept. I'd say in a nutshell, self mastery is about taking responsibility for yourself. But more than that, so more than responsibility, like pick up after yourself. I mean, pay attention to what you're saying. More than that, it's really about knowing all the different parts of you that live within you, and integrating them. So I think that's the root of what people call are those popular term around holistic leadership.

My view is, leadership is all about relationship. And oftentimes the most difficult person to be in a relationship with is ourselves. And so for me, self mastery is thinking and being more curious and concerned about who am I? Who am I? What do I want? How do I operate? We spend so much time worrying about or working on our external relationships. Those can only go so far until we've done that work on our own self. So really getting curious about not just what are my strengths and what are my weaknesses, but what's my history? What are my beliefs, what's my wounding? What's my medicine? What's my healing? What's my purpose? What's my offering? I always think there's no one that could ever tell me anything about me. That I don't already know, or at least suspect. That's self mastery.

Lauren

It's very cool. It's also very intimidating right now, when you brought up the question, Who am I? I honestly don't think that I would be able to answer that myself, truly. So I was wondering, do you have any advice on where someone could even start with answering that question?

Kendra

Yes, I think that is probably that question, Who am I? And what do I want are two of the most powerful questions we can ever ask. Ask ourselves. And we should be continually asking ourselves, not because who we are and what we want changes, day to day, sometimes moment to moment, year by year. So asking yourself those questions, who am I? And what do I want? The power of those questions isn't necessarily in the final answer, it’s in the exploration of it. So the first thing is ask yourself that question and then sit down, shut up and get curious about what comes up. And then what comes up after that. And then what comes up after that, because it's like, uncorking, a bottle of champagne, you have to let some of the effervescence come out. And so the initial bubbles and who am I, the first answer is probably going to be I don't know. You can’t stop there. Okay, well, I wonder who I am? What do I like? You’re just sitting with that curiosity. It is the first step.

Phil

I love that.

Kendra

And constantly coming back to it.

Phil

Well, we focus, I think, as a society so much on the result, the final result of our efforts. And your point, I immediately think about, I mean, what we know is our work and clients will sign on with us to be delivered a website and a brand and all of these tangibles and that's what ignites the excuse to collaborate. But what comes out of that collaboration are things that we can't even anticipate in the early moments, because you just don't know. But sometimes Kendra, there are discoveries, findings from working together that we don't even know are going to happen that are far more valuable, or instrumental than a website or a quote brand. You know, it could be advice that Lauren says, Hey, by the way, at the end of a call, have you thought about doing this, and turns into a brand new vertical of business. Or it could be something that people don't realize about themselves? I think that the journey is more important than the destination.

Kendra

Yeah, absolutely.

Lauren

So what advice do you have as well for answering that? Who am I question without tying it to your career and accomplishments? Because I think this is my guess is if I was to answer about who am I question for Phil, Phil would probably say, I'm a business owner, I'm a speaker, etc.

Phil

I'm a brand strategist.

Lauren

And that's correct. But I feel like the who am I question is much deeper than that.

Kendra

Yeah, those are things that we do, not who we are. And I think people pi a tremendous amount of their self worth and self identification into specifically their job title. We collapse our, ourselves with our achievements, and our accomplishments and the results that we produce. And we're so much more than the results that we produce, that they again, expect when you ask yourself those questions that those are going to be the first answers that come up.

And just okay, so that's part of the end. You know, it is part of who you are and what you do is an important part. But it's more I think, what's more important are those themes or the trends underneath that what appears something, what about you never changes.

So if we were to strip all of the outer worlds, and take all the structure away, there's no job anymore. There's no job title, there's no role or saying that you have to be in life. You're not the mother, you're not the boyfriend, the girlfriend, the brand strategist. So that's if you strip all that away, what's left? What about you never changes regardless of circumstances.

Lauren

God, I got to do some work, Kendra.

Kendra

Well, here's the thing is, is I think the thing that surprises a lot of people is it boils down to some very, very simple things. For me, one of the things and I think this is part of what helps you guys give that amazing introduction of me, I am made of love. That's part of who I am. And it's also now people feel and sense and get the expression of that and the various ways that I do that professionally and personally, but part of who I am is love. And I know that even as those words are coming out of my mouth, I'm thinking like, oh god, you just sound like such a West Coast hippie life coach right now. Try to not judge around whatever comes up because here's the thing, those answers are not coming from your thinking brain.

The good stuff comes actually from the right hemisphere of your brain, which by the way, is where all creativity, all feeling and emotion and all truth lives. And that part of your brain doesn't have the capacity for language, so it's probably when I talk to clients about this process, and I have a lot of them, you will also be surprised how many people have made it as senior as they have and are in charge of such massive organizations that have not asked themselves these questions. If I tell them that their homework is always go, sit and stare at the ocean, or the clouds or something like you need to put yourself in Daydream mode and ask these questions. We need space for this. Because the answers to who am I and what do I want are probably going to want to get underneath the job title, though family rules that are probably going to come to you more in the form of images and metaphors and memories. And if you stay there long enough, the left hemisphere, the thinking part of your brain that's designed to spot patterns and organize data is going to start to go, oh, hold on a second. Here's the thing that these three memories have in common. Here's how this metaphor links to this, and you start to get less of a language, like purpose statement for yourself, let's say and more of a felt a sense of who you are. Knowing who you are, isn't about knowing that just from the neck up, it's about feeling oh, you know, when people say things like I feel at home in my own skin, that's where that comes from. That's a right hemisphere way. So the way that we can relate to each other, because being in my skin is different from you being in your skin, but we can have a shared experience of what it's like to be in yourself. So I'd say focus less on the How would I put this on my resume or how do I put it in my documents or how to, if that's not what this is for this is for you. Sensing and feeling more than thinking and writing.

Lauren

And I can see how going through that exploration would positively affect every part of your life, including work. I think about when we have our call days on Tuesdays and Thursdays, for the most part, I am freaking spent. I am exhausted and emotionally and mentally hung over quite literally for like the entire days after our call days, because I feel like I'm putting on a bit of a performance for some clients, not all of them, not for you. Not for Juli but for some clients, there's sort of a formality that you feel like you need to bring. But if I was more comfortable and who I am as a person, then maybe I wouldn't be experiencing that kind of exhaustion after because I just be myself.

Kendra

It takes a lot of energy to maintain a persona, to whatever degree we're doing that. And listen, we all have the best version of ourselves, the professional version of ourselves, like you said, Lauren, you have to you know, take my tone up a little bit and tighten things up and sharpen my edges and be more sustained and all that that's just one point in a range of what's available to you.

The more comfortable and the wider or broader of that range, the less effort it takes to go there. But we think I hear people I wish I could think on my feet more. You know, you're just so quick at responding and everything's on the tip of your tongue. Well, a lot of that's because I know the scale that I'm working on, I know how close I am to my own personal edges. Most people aren't I had a conversation with someone yesterday and they said, you know, Kendra, there's I just have this all this emotion inside of me, and I know that I have to have a really big cry. Like I have their sadness that I need to have a really big cry, but I'm afraid if I start crying, I'm never going to stop. And I said, you know, never in the history of this planet, has anyone ever started to cry and not been able to stop. And so you kind of got to know what it feels like to have a What are you at full anger or full danger or full joy or full happiness or full sadness? And then where are you on the opposite end, most people are really familiar with the numb side of that. So it's finding those edges. And then you don't have to try as hard to put things on. You're not putting on versions of yourself, you're just stretching into different parts of yourself, you have access to more.

Phil

Having a greater familiarity with cells, you know how to use your time and your energy a bit better in a way that's complimentary to your skill set instead of you know stretch in a way that's not rewarding or productive or comfortable. And there's always exceptions to it.

So I love that we get these minutes with you because like I said at the top I always learn these are things that I often don't take time to think about. And every time that I have a conversation like this, it reminds me of the need to take time to think about these things. A lot of our listeners are self starters, entrepreneurs and they are busy checking off their to do lists each day. And Lauren and I struggle with this where it's like all of a sudden everyone else's asks are more important than what we know we need to do ourselves. And then the clients you're working with, I think that's like levels above with that kind of stuff. stress and responsibility and commitment. What's your advice to people when it comes to making time for self or leadership or development, self development?

Kendra

It's a great question, and it's the plate like, it's the easiest thing to cut when we're busy. All of our well intentioned plans go out the window, and we sell ourselves short, before we sell anything, we're so much more comfortable letting ourselves down that we are letting other people down. And I almost my whole career has been solopreneur. Now I'm solopreneur, and business owner in another capacity. So I've learned this through experience.

That first of all, Phil, you said, how do you make time? You don't, none of us can make time or we'd all give ourselves extra hours in the week, you have to intentionally carve time out. And I would say, start way smaller than you think you should. So even if it's in the beginning, 10 minutes a week to be with yourself. We get so caught up in achieving and Phil, like you said, checking those boxes off, what did I do? What do I do? Here's the thing, we don't learn from experience, we learn from reflecting on our experience. And so imagine if you could carve out 10 minutes a week to go, okay, what did I do this week? What did I learn? What did I learn about myself? What did I learn about the world at large? Where was I challenged? What am I most proud of? What do I think is next for me to develop in my leadership? If I think about, even if I don't know who I am today, can I dream about who? Who I want to become right? Like who do I want to be when I grow up? Did the choices I make this week aligned with that? Or did they move me farther away from it? So taking that time to just reflect when I had that, you know, that moment of disagreement with so and so if I could go back and have a do over, would I do anything different? Or again, even just what what did I learn? What do I want to repeat? Where was I successful?

Lauren

I never asked myself these questions ever, ever. I'm just always like just trying to get Inbox zero. That's all I'm trying to do.Phil

Phil

Lauren, you and I ying and yang in a lot of ways, but we are similar in some ways. And bingo, bango, bango. What Kedra just outlined, you and I are very similar in that way and that we get through our lists. We're busy and we take on a lot. But you Lauren, do you journal Kendra, do you journal Do you guys journal?

Kendra

I journal

Lauren

I used to.

Kendra

I journal and I meditate every single day. And I also move my body I exercise everyday too. I used to have these fantasies about I just wanted to be a journaler so bad. And you think like Oprah's out there, look, I journal seven hours a day, every day, like I wanted to be that that prolific, poetic journaler. And the thing is, I'm just not one because I'm too busy, two because I don't really think anything I have to write down that. Like, I had to really take off the blinders or the rules that I for whatever reason was putting around what it means to journal or how I have to journal. Sometimes I just scribble the word fuck seven times. Sometimes I Doodle, sometimes I write a checklist. Sometimes I just like, oh, remember this about yourself.

You have to just not have any expectations around it. And also journaling might not be your thing. Maybe you're someone who likes to paint or sing or work out. Like another way that I do this is also in my workouts. Because I have a huge value around health and really committed to like, I need my skeleton to be able to carry my carcass around for a lot longer. So I need to take care of it. And so when I'm working out is a lot of the time when I do that reflective and it's helpful, because in that case, I'm really embodied like my mind and body are connected. And so that's a great time to do some of that reflective thinking.

Lauren

Yeah, I found when I used to journal, and this probably says a lot about me, I would journal about something that made me feel something like that day or that week, and whether that was anger or sadness or jealousy or whatever. But I found that by journaling and getting it on the paper, it actually made me it amplified whatever feelings I was having and made me feel worse, which is obviously is like a psychological indicator that maybe I have some stuff to work through. But I find that like emotionally I tend to kind of have these walls up. But then once I get past those walls it's like a flood of emotions. And so I found that journaling made me feel worse. And so that's why I stopped doing it because it would I just fester on all these emotions, I suppose.

Kendra

Listen, I don't I also don't think that that's uncommon because the human brain can't distinguish between something it's experiencing live and a memory. So if we're journaling and we're calling all those memories and all those feelings back to the surface, of course they're going to get amplified and your body is going to believe that it's happening again. I think this points again, self mastery is developing that skill of noticing oh, Look at me, I'm here again. So okay, here I am, I'm all hopped up, and I'm all angry again, and I'm ready to look for a fight even though I'm alone in my apartment. And now what? Who do I want to be? You can create some choice points for yourself. And then sometimes even, it's just in the noticing, oh, crap, I got all amped up again, about my journal about these feelings.

Just noticing it is sometimes what can tip it over. So then there's the solution, all right, because if we think about just any kind of energy or any state of being, it ebbs and flows, you similar to you can start crying and never stop? Lauren, you're never gonna get yourself to a place where you're so angry that you're never able to not come down from.

Lauren

Like, the Hulk forever.

Kendra

Yeah, exactly. So I think it's about starting to notice it and then sit with it. Most emotion when it comes up, it just wants to be sat with for a minute, sit with the anger. Wow. Yes. And the best time to do it is when you're journaling and you're not actually live in it. So call those emotions right back up, and then go, okay, I'm angry. What's here for me what's underneath, because the thing is with anger, especially it's anger, is the bodyguard of sadness. So there's always there's something underneath the anger. And that's the place to get curious about.

Lauren

Everything you say, is so freaking profound. It's unbelievable.

Phil

It is.

Phil

Just when I thought I was the soundbite king, well we have a queen in town.

Lauren

So going back to what you learned and seen as an executive coach, we mentioned, the pain point of a lot of people that you work with, who are really high up in organizations might not know the answer to who am I. They also are very, very busy and perhaps aren't prioritizing work on the self, whether it's physical, or whatever it is, what are some other common pain points that you see?

Kendra

In the clients that I coach?

Lauren

Yeah.

Kendra

Okay. I do want to answer that. But I just had something come up around the last question about the journaling, and the how do you start to figure out who you are. This is this might be helpful to your listeners. A lot of people when they think about success in their lives, they think if I do these things, that I will have these things, and that I will be this person, it's a flawed formula. You're constantly going to be pushing happiness out over the cognitive horizon. The better way to think about it is if I was that person, that I dream about being alright, if I already was that being that individual, what would I do? And if I did those things, then what would I have? It is a different way to think about ourselves instead of yours like that yourself is somewhere to get to.

I mean, I need to do these things and have all these things before I get to be who I want to be. Actually, what if you reverse that and started being who you wanted to be, and if you were that person, then what would you do? What would you like, it's so much, it's such such a clearer path, in my opinion,

Lauren

I want to I'm just looking at Phil, because I'm wondering, well, who he wants to be.

Phil

I'm imagining that as the most amazing Instagram carousel slider where people scroll over, and then you say, okay, now go backwards. Think about it this way, almost like a reverse poem. I don't know. But this is how my brain works. I love that I actually am happy we spend time on the journaling area, because it's really interesting for people who journal or who don't journal. It's interesting to hear about those experiences. I should before we leave that topic for the next question, I don't journal because the idea of writing in a blank notebook really stresses me out. I have so many amazing, beautiful notebooks that are all empty, because I can't bring myself to ruin the perfection of just I mean, I know it's ridiculous but if you go to my house I have if I have 30 amazing notebooks from all these places that I bought, and I just can't write in them like that. So I'm a perfectionist.

Kendra

You can just find Phil at Chapters Indigo, staring at the journal section.

Phil

I want to look and touch but I there's no point. Right? Unless I have it for decoration.

Kendra

I mean, don't make it hard for yourself. It might not be journaling is like I said it could be journaling could be working out. It could be therapy or coaching or venting to someone it's just it's anything that gets you more curious about about you.

Lauren

So funny. People are getting a real reveal into Phil and I today. So back to executive coaching. So what are some other pain points that you see among your clients in relation to work perhaps?

Kendra

I think a big one that I talk about with clients a lot. In fact, I just had a new client this morning two clients this morning actually want to talk about capacity. And sort of two forms of that. One is how do I create capacity for myself, candor, I have this big job, I'm so busy all the time I have a family, I have all these things going on. And yet somehow I still feel unfulfilled. So how do I create the capacity? Because this isn't going to slow down? So where is the energy and the capacity gonna come from?

And then the other one is, how do I create capacity in my team. So that can be for a few reasons, I have a lot of leaders where their organization will call me and say, Kendra, this person is ready to be promoted. They're fully capable, but the, their team that they would leave behind can't take the hit of their leader leaving. So we need you to come in and coach this person, not on their own development, but how do they develop the team so that the team can function and has the capacity to be able to continue to function until the new leader comes in.

So a lot of that is I call advanced delegation, a lot of the people I work with and just in life, career progression is focused around individual contribution. So from the time we're in school, right, this is your class, your grade your paper, your project, your this, this is the path, first you go to grade 11, then you go to grade 12, then you go here, then you do this, then do this, then you get a job. These are your responsibilities, these are your deadlines. And then there's a point of inflection where for some people, they'll either take the part that you many of your listeners have around solopreneur, or they get promoted to okay, well, now, we still need you to be an individual contributor, but we also need you to leave this lead this team of people. They’re such a great salesperson, we want you to lead the sales team, to very different skill sets, by the way. And then even if you're a solopreneur, it can be okay, I'm still the one that's responsible for all the deliverables, but I have to manage my virtual assistant or manage my clients. All of that is it that takes capacity. Solopreneurs too, this is my big thing. How do I have the capacity to work on my business, and I also need to work in my business. So I need to be the one that sells it and the one that delivers it. And the one to create that and the one that this so there's a capacity issue there.

I work a lot with people around that. And then another piece that I work around them with is just the dynamics of leadership and relationship. Again, it is all about relationship. And the more senior you get in an organization, the smaller your peers. So when you go we think a standard organization might go senior manager, director, vice president, senior vice president, executive vice president, basically, the higher up you go, there's like, most places you can’t throw a quarter without hitting a director and a VP, and then everyone's stumbling for the SVP. But the higher up you go, the less of those roles are available. But by the time you get to an EVP role, you're steering the entire company, but there's only six of you. So there's a higher chance that there's going to be disagreements and misalignments. And so you got to figure out how to be in relationship together. How are we going to give each other feedback? How are we going to determine who's doing what what whose role? How are we going to be when things get tough? And most people have avoided that because they've been able to focus just on delivering results. My work speaks for itself. My work speaks for itself. I work all the time. I'm a hard worker, hey, I got here. And now all of a sudden, you got to negotiate all these things with other people. So we work a lot around that.

Lauren

Wow, could we go back to capacity for a second? So with the sales analogy that you used someone's great salesperson, and then they're promoted, and now it's their job to train the sales team when it's requiring a different skill set. Where does someone even begin? If they don't have an executive coach themselves?

Kendra

I think it's a mindset shift. So the first thing I ask people all the time is okay, so what do you think your job is? And most people, they don't know. So how do you then split your time? So it is a mindset to think the Director of Sales worries about or thinks about, am I selling enough tickets? The Vice President of Sales worries or thinks about do I have the right people and structures in place to sell enough tickets? So it's different. It's less about delegating tasks and more about delegating responsibilities, which is hard for people who've grown up as individual contributors, because there's a control factor there. Right? What if someone makes a mistake or messes this up for me? And so if you have to really be intentional about your mindset and the division of attention and energy, it's like, you've got to go slow to go fast. And so how do you teach someone to think strategically. It's a very much coach, and they're very, very much coaching skills.

And then the other thing that comes always up with that conversation, and it happened again, this morning is around personal wellness. So I was having a conversation with a coo at a startup in cryptocurrencies and you can imagine in an emerging industry like that. It's a US based company. So even just that alone, the pace is quicker and a little bit more urgency, let's say, and we talked about the concept of self mastery because listen, now you do have a lot of responsibility. A lot of people that are waiting for answers are depending on you for direction. And what's your invisible routine? You can only get from your surplus. So if you don't have surplus for yourself, so then we start talking about things like what do you eat for breakfast? How much sleep do you get a night? Do you move your body? What does that look like?

Because capacity starts from within? I would say. So the capacity thing around delegation is, it's hard because it's what we talk about then end up being risk. It's actually about risk tolerance. Listen, I own my own business, too. I am not completely comfortable saying okay, you own this now run with it. It's your deliverable. This is the deadline. That's 100% risk to me. So what can I do? What structure can I set up that's going to reduce that risk from say, 100% to 75%? Or 75%? To 50%? Or 50%? To 25%? but less than, what am I going to delegate? It's more on the how am I going to delegate it. And what how am I going to explain those expectations? How are we going to check in with each other?

I think there's a big myth that people do delegated, like mic drop, and then you just walk away. That's what makes it scary. So how do we stay connected? How are we going to check in with each other around this? I gotta give you a chance to fail, try it on and fail a little bit. But I also can't let you fail so big that it looks bad on both of us. You have to find those moments.

Lauren

All my questions are coming from a purely selfish place, FYI, because I find it interesting. So sorry, listeners. So you just summarized the challenge that I have experienced pretty much for as long as I can remember, even group projects in elementary school, when we'd be put on a team, I'd be like, Okay, I'm gonna do the project. And then you guys can review it and give your feedback, but I need to do it. So the surprise of no one. And we’d get an A, so I'd be rewarded for that behavior. But anyway, I digress. But the challenge for me is, is that balance between mic drop, this is your responsibility now. And the check ends because I don't want someone to feel like I'm breathing down their neck. And it's really hard for me, it's kind of either all or nothing. And that balance is is tough. But I don't know if it's just me, like, is this something that your clients have challenges with too?

Kendra

No Lauren, only you, you're the only person on the planet.

Lauren

Well, I'm just so bad at it. I just assume that like, there's no way that anyone could be as terrible at delegating as me. To me, it's just the bottom anyway.

Kendra

No, you're not the only one. And I was a little bit that person in school as well. And this is the trap that leaders fall into is it's just easier if I do it myself. Or it's faster if I do it myself. Yeah, it's faster. It's not sustainable.

Let's take that exact example. So if you're doing all of that work, who's doing your job? Right? So automatically, you're working a level below what you're actually paid what your pay grade is, first of all, so you're never going to ascend. And then what about the people below you, they're now working at a level below them, and you're kind of ripping them off for their chance to develop and learn, because you're doing it for them.

So all of that all that creates is dependency on you. So we want to talk about the first place we talk we'll start with with around mindset. What is your mindset around Oh, come on, I'm afraid to fly. And that's usually how it starts. I'm afraid if I, then this is gonna happen. So that's an avoidance goal. Alright, so well, if you didn't, what are some other options. And that's really what I help people do is look at other options and set up that structure.

And Lauren is sometimes it's like, you got to out yourself, listen, I really need to go over here and work on this super important priority. And I need to give this to you. And to be totally honest, I'm scared. Because I've held this baby and I've been in charge of this file, this project this client for whatever, and I don't want to drop it. And I can't do this. And it's a great growth opportunity for you. And it fits more in your wheelhouse. So I want to hand that over. And I want to talk about how we do that. Because I want to be a resource to you and I'm still available and I but you know, so what does this look like? Then you'd figure it out together, it's already becomes more of an enrolled process. You've already you're working on their relationship, you're building trust, you're get to be authentic, you create that space, where it's like, okay, both of us are kind of uncomfortable. I'm uncomfortable, because I'm afraid to give it over. you're uncomfortable because oh my god, that's gonna be a stretch for you. And you've never done it before. Well, if we're both going to be worried, why don't we do that together and figure out solutions together as opposed to each of us keeping that to ourselves.

Lauren

That's such good advice. Because now I'm thinking about what I've said, this is a very important client, so blah, blah, blah. But not saying just this is an important client for us, but it's more just like we really care about this client because she's been incredible while blah, blah. So let me know how I can help you knock this project out of the park makes it way more collaborative than like a big warning sign sort of thing.

Kendra

Yeah. And for the first couple meetings with this client, as we're handing it over, I'm actually going to stay on the call for there to be a warm handoff. But I'm going to let you lead, but all be here so that if you slip or fall or you need me to throw you a life preserver, I can do that, but I'm not going to do it for you. So it creates, again, more safety for the other person, but also more safety for you. Because if you have to, you can pull the boss card, no, actually, sorry, what so and so's just said isn't quite right, dear client is this that you can correct. And then after, after the meeting, you can have the debrief around, okay, here's why I butted in on that this is the thing that you actually need to learn. So that's where you get into the nuances of it.

Phil

And they learn, most importantly,

Kendra

And they learn and so the piece around carving out reflection time for ourselves, when we're doing that, it's really important for us to take that role of leader coach, because after you want to be able to go to the person go, okay, so how do you think that call with a client went? What did you do that you're proud of? How did you know that that was the time to have that difficult conversation? Where did that information comes to help them reflect on what they did right. And it gives them a pattern that they can follow.

Lauren

Brilliant.

Phil

It's all so good. I wish we could have this conversation for 10 hours. Normally, I have a very short attention span and I just it's like you start talking and I sponge it all up. When I go to the movie theater, Kendra, I can't even watch the movie, I fall asleep. It's just I have a zero attention span. And so the fact that you're able to grab my attention and I'm like, yes. what an interesting perspective and actually think about things speaks volumes for how wise you are. I said it in the beginning here. I'm saying it again. People need to go check you out. kendrareddy.com We're really proud of this website. I think visually it is so Kendra. This also might be the longest podcast episode we've ever had, which speaks volumes for how much we like you. I just was like we're not stopping this because there's so much juicy goodness. Kendra, also you're doing incredible content on Instagram. People need to go check you out on Instagram, same handle, kendrareddy Anywhere else you'd like to direct people where can people get more of you?

Kendra

I would say those two handles and also my second business, The Tala Leadership Institute. So the second company I created during COVID was or is a coach training and leadership development firm that uses nature and horses as a backdrop and learning tool. So talaleadership.com and same handle for Instagram.

Lauren

Fantastic. Another PPC project. might I add? Joy.

Phil

We're very proud of that one, too. Yeah. Thank you so much Kendra for your insight and your wisdom.

Kendra

Thank you for having me and part two, for sure.

Lauren

Yes. Oh my gosh. Then we can talk about boundaries and all that good stuff.

Phil

I'm so in. Thank you for hanging out with us on Brand Therapy. We appreciate it.

Kendra

Thanks for having me.