137. How do you fire a client?
Wondering if it's time to give a client the boot? 🥾 While it's not fun, firing a client is an often-necessary part of business, and hosts Phil and Lauren are here to share their techniques for deciding when it's time! You'll learn how to evaluate whether a client is a good fit and understand how to articulate the boundaries that are necessary for your sanity. The hosts also provide a script that you can use verbatim to separate while preserving the relationship. Listen to this episode and feel empowered!
Episode transcription
Phil
Hello, hello, hello, and welcome to Brand Therapy. I'm Phil.
Lauren
And I'm Lauren.
Phil
And this is the podcast where we help you position, build and promote your brand. Well, we don't really do all three of those things in every single episode. But if you were to sit here and scroll back through all of the many many episodes and topics we tackled, if you were to add all of those things up, if each episode was like a little piece of the pie, yes, it would certainly teach you all kinds of aspects of positioning, building and promoting. And sometimes we talk literally about branding, but then other times we talk about topics that we get really fired up about in the moment. And today is an example of a topic that we are fired, fired, fired up about. Would you care to elaborate, Lauren Moore?
Lauren
Today, we're going to talk about how to fire a client.
Phil
Scandalous.
Lauren
Uh huh.
Phil
Scandalous.
Lauren
When we were coming up with topics, which we use Pinterest to do a lot of the times by the way, see what's popular, we were contemplating between how to build brand trust and how to be consistent with content, which we might do eventually, but we're not feeling it today. We're feeling spicy?
Phil
Yeah.
Lauren
Yeah, we are.
Phil
I just stared at you when you listed those topics. I was like, I just, I don't even think I can bring myself to do it, I'd rather go take a nap. I just can't bring myself to tackle important topics, just not in the mood today. I want to spice run today. And so we're gonna talk about firing clients. I have two interesting anecdotes that I can share with you when you feel like the time is right to share those. Now one has to do with sponsored content and one has to do with a client, we're obviously not going to name anyone. But let's start with the example of sponsored content. We've talked about this on the podcast before.
2021 has been an exciting year for me, because I've launched a new vertical of my business, thanks to consistency on YouTube. And now I have a number of sponsored content opportunities and partners. Partners across various campaigns like Adobe, I’m speaking at Adobe Max this year, I'm doing focus groups for them on new products and I'm doing sponsored content. All kinds of fun stuff pretty consistently.
I get emails from apps, software tools, most often that find my YouTube videos and go, wow, this guy would be interesting to do a review of our product, we're going to email him. We're first going to offer him an affiliate deal. And then I reply and say not interested. I have lots of people that want to pay me to do an affiliate deal. And you can pay me to do a great sponsored piece of positive content for them and on my channel. And also I only recommend things I actually believe in and I try.
That's a topic for another day when I actually agreed to a sponsored content deal, tried the app, hated it, and gave them a refund.
So this particular instance, I had someone contact me a few months ago and say, Hey Phil, we'd love to collaborate. We're launching some new features so we're not quite ready to collaborate yet. But tell us the price, let's tentatively agree and we'll follow up by the end of the summer. I did all of that, they said yes, they followed up two days ago. Two days ago that popped up in my inbox. I thought, oh great, this one's already been negotiated. They're ready to go. Phil we'd like to collaborate. Great. I say this because I really don't like my valuable time, with all of my commitments and requirement,s to get on the phone with someone who's still deciding they want to hire me. It's just not enough money to warrant me carving time out of my day to talk about the possibility of collaborating. When very clearly, I have over 10 examples for them to see, to basically say yes. Pay the first half of the invoice, the last half gets paid when the project's done, and then I'm happy to hop in a half an hour call to talk about, you know, show me your app and tool and what you want featured. And I'll soak it all up and create something amazing for you. I'll do my best.
In this case, I outlined the steps of what was required next, pay my invoice, and we'll schedule a call.
Lauren
And to interrupt, he specifically asked you how would you like to do this? He asked you, I'm getting all mad. He asked you how would you like to do this, I'm going to lower the tone of my voice and keep it really chill.
Phil
I would like you to pay me half of the project to secure your interest and commitment to the time I'm going to spend.
Lauren
And then we can chat about your app.
Phil
Yeah. And then we can chat. And so I understand. And if someone's nice in certain instances they want in a virtual world. It's kind of scary to send a bunch of money to a stranger on the internet. I'm aware of that. Even though I have a good reputation, you can find me online. I'm aware of that. And so I will in some instances, if they're nice, say hey, here's my 15 minute calendar link and we can jump on and say hello quickly, and then we move forward.
And then long story short, I guess I'm already making it kind of long, but I think it's important to describe exactly what's happened here. Sent my calendar, link and he replies and says Phil, you don't have availability for four business days.
Lauren
Yah, I have a job.
Phil
I have a few jobs. Yeah, I'm a brand strategist. I'm on client calls. As part of that I'm a content creator, you're speaking and creating training and doing lots of different things.
Lauren
Get in line buddy.
Phil
Get in line is essentially what I said as quietly as possible. So I replied and said, listen, I've got shoot days, and I've got client projects in the queue that are blocking my calendar. Tuesday is perfect for me to touch base. And honestly, I'm not going to get a chance to work on your video until then anyways. So then he replied, didn't acknowledge it and said, maybe it's easier if we switch to WhatsApp and we can touch base for 10 minutes. And so that made me angry. And I sent an email that started with the word respectfully, which to his point when he replied, Phil, when you say respectfully it's never respectful. And I agree in most cases. When you say respectfully, it's because you're pissed.
This individual didn't process what I said politely, and thinks that his project is so important in his entrepreneur emergency. After emailing me two days prior, let's create a video together.
This is about boundaries. And so I replied and said, no, this is not going to be a suitable sponsorship. And he replied and said, I agree.
But to be fair, his emergency is not my emergency. Because if I took on everyone's emergency right now, then I'm gonna have a breakdown. And I've got a lot of other commitments to people, not just business, but friends and relationships and family. And sometimes you have to say no. And I think there's so much guilt that goes with firing a client. We can't help but think, oh, my god, have we done something wrong? In this instance. And so I think this is an important topic. That's the example related to sponsored content. I said, No, I fired them before we even started.
And there's another example of a client we've worked with more recently that has made lots and lots of changes, changes, changes. A lot of ambiguous feedback and made it very difficult for us to deliver something, haven't fired the client, but have thought about it, and have really worked together as a team to navigate this.
I would say the first thing here is if you have someone to talk to about this, it's really helpful when you only have yourself to think through this, I think it becomes a little dangerous unless you're really experienced or seasoned, because it helps to talk it out and get a different perspective. A different personality in the mix.
Lauren
Yes, I think that working with clients can be incredible. But it can also come with some very uncomfortable moments, because there's kind of this narrative we buy into that when someone is your client, you are their slave, which is not the case. I think that over the years, we've learned that when you are considering firing a client, first of all, look at the financials. If you can't afford to get rid of them don't, because that's going to put a lot of pressure on you that you're going to be inadvertently projecting on any potential future clients. So I think that's number one. That's so it's kind of like suck it up and just do what you can get the project done. Get your money and get out while doing a good job, of course.
But to me, if you're thinking about firing a client, it's very important to ask yourself, is there trust at the foundation of this relationship? Does this person trust me, and do I trust them? And if trust is gone, you got to get them out, you simply have to get them out, because I don't think that there's any way that you can win. And then when you're thinking about firing them and starting to feel guilty, because maybe they've got something very important, maybe they thought they could rely on you, maybe they're implying you're doing a bad job, I think it also comes down to fit. Sometimes you are not a good fit for your client and vice versa and it's in the best interest of their money and both of your times to find a better fit.
As an example, we juggle a lot of balls. We are the working with clients but also actually doing the work ourselves and that requires a lot of focused, deep concentrated time. So if a client is the type of person who wants to have you accessible by text message, who wants you to be able to hop on the call whenever they feel like it, that is not a good fit for us. It might be a good fit for someone else but it is not a good fit for us.
And so we've learned over the years that we have no problem drawing those boundaries and or getting rid of someone if they find that unacceptable.
Phil
We have essentially theme days, we've talked about this before. And we won't go into detail now, but we have phone calls on Tuesdays and Thursdays. And that's it. I reserve Wednesday for content and speaking and training and my own content that I have to do. So people trust me to deliver on the job that I'm hired to do, because I do it myself, show up on Instagram and social media, right, YouTube, Monday, and Friday will sometimes be deep focused projects. And we can't deeply focus if we're dealing with many fires and emergencies. might I add the emergencies of other people, like no real emergency,
We are strict about those boundaries. If it's a real emergency, you can call me. You can email me and we will help you. In that instance, if it's real, I should say,
Lauren
Yeah, but as an example, last year, I had a client text my personal number at 5:30pm on a Saturday asking for help with choosing a LinkedIn photo. And that was the day I decided that I'm never giving my personal phone number to a client ever again. And that's actually, I think, a real key lesson and a tool, if you will, for this exercise. You need to figure out what your non-negotiables are for protecting your inner peace and being able to work with someone in a productive way. For me, that text message literally threw me over the edge, and I will not accept it from a client moving forward. Because if I'm away from my computer, which is not often, if I'm away from my computer and I'm really trying to unplug, I do not want a client invading my personal time. And sometimes people don't mind. But for me, I do mind. So that's a non negotiable, I will not be accessible by text message. A client can message me on slack or email, which I'm checking basically 24/7.
Phil
Hmm. And it's interesting. We have one client that if she was to do that with us, she's like VIP, our longest client, if she was to do that to me on the weekend, I wouldn't be upset by it, because it's based on the mutual understanding of how we interact and how we respect one another. Yes, right yet, but she's right.
Lauren
She's earned it.
Phil
If it was someone else, it would make me angry. So I love that you got fired up about that. Sorry, it's gonna translate very well into a podcast episode.
Lauren
Yeah. And well, the thing is, is that by figuring out your boundaries, and how you in an ideal situation like to work with someone, and what those deal breakers are, you can communicate it to the client. Because quite frankly, if you don't communicate it, they don't know and they haven't really done anything wrong. It is your responsibility to tell people how you like to work, so they can then decide if it's a good fit or not for them. If you do tell them and then they violate those boundaries continuously, then it's potentially a sign that it's not a good fit.
Phil
Time to fire them.
Lauren
Yeah, it might be time to fire them. So if it is time to fire them, what do we do next?
Lauren
Well, I think it's always nice to give someone a heads up and give them an opportunity to work on the relationship, kind of like if you're going to be breaking up. So with a number of clients, we have told them in all transparency, this process is extremely frustrating for us. We have very 99% of our client projects go off without a hitch. This is not one of them. This is really rare. It feels like you don't trust us. And quite frankly, we're thinking if it's time for us to part ways. What do you think?
Phil
I think that's a script in itself that people can borrow. We'll actually put that in a blog post on our blog.
Lauren
Boundaries scripts, which have taken me so long to figure out and not feel like a total jerk about it.
Phil
Lucky podcast listeners, they get to borrow your hard work over the year.
Lauren
My anxiety, concentrated work, and then also scripts on how to break up with a client. So I think that's the real key. Of course, it's always great to end a relationship amicably. So keep it professional, keep it about business. And I think showing respect for them. Whether you continue to work together or not, is probably the most important thing, because the world's a very small place.
Phil
Very small.
Lauren
That's my advice.
Phil
There are so many instances that have popped up where I think to myself, wow, I'm glad I didn't click Send on the initial draft I'd sent to that person when I was angry and emotionally charged, because that client comes back. That client pops up back in your inbox. You know what I would say to wrap this up, because obviously people should go, we're not going to read the scripts in this episode. You can go to the blog post, and actually get the scripts that Lauren is talking about, what do we have in there again, scripts for firing a client and scripts for setting boundaries.
My last reminder would be to expect this to happen the longer you're in business and the more people you work with. For every time it's amazing, expect that there might be an instant that's not as amazing. And just be ready and prepared for things to not go as planned. Sometimes it's better, but sometimes it's worse. And I have to remind myself that this is the nature of doing business when offering a service of taking someone's money for something. Something you do for them or something you give them. This is just part of it. And you have to give yourself permission to say you know what, I'm uncomfortable, this is uncomfortable, but going through the experience, and the discomfort of that moment is going to make you a better business person. And I think it's really valuable.
Lauren
And it gets easier.
Phil
It gets a lot easier. Well that was good. It was spicy. We're gonna wrap it up again, go to the blog post. It's philpallen.co/blog. If you enjoyed this episode, let's continue the conversation #brandtherapy. I'm @philpallen.
Lauren
I'm @thelaurenmoore
Phil
We would love to hear from you. We'd also love a little review from you five star five star that helps other people discover these episodes that we work so hard to create with you. Did this episode resonate with you? You've got to share with us. We'll see you back here next time on Brand Therapy. Thanks for hanging out with us.
Lauren
Bye bye.
