144. How do you exercise mindfulness as an entrepreneur? (f. Chandresh Bhardwaj)
Feel like your life is a bucking horse and you're along for the ride? 🐴 This Brand Therapy episode is just what you need! Hosts Phil and Lauren meet with seventh-generation spiritual advisor (and long-time client) for his perspective on mindfulness in entrepreneurship. Chandresh digs into the power of intentionally calming your mind, overcoming anxiety, rejecting "the grind", and creating a presence on calls. Whether you're a novice or a pro at meditating, there's something for everyone in this episode.
Episode transcription
Phil
Well, hello there. Welcome to brand therapy. I'm Phil.
Lauren
And I'm Lauren.
Phil
And this is the podcast where we help you position, build and promote your brand. Maybe you've already noticed that I'm bringing a calmer vibe to the intro. You know, sometimes I'm like a hyper Chihuahua. But other days like today, I'm more intentional with the energy I bring to this conversation. And there's a reason for it. Isn't there a reason for it Lauren Moore?
Lauren
Oh there sure is. We have so much to learn from our guest today.
Phil
Let me first comment on your equally calm energy that you're bringing to the conversation.
Lauren
Today? Oh.
Phil
Yeah,
I don't think I am. And actually, Adobe just crashed again, with an alert saying the audition has reached the limit of audio data it can use, but that's okay. He's available in the present moment. And we're just going to go with the zoom local audio recording for my involvement on the podcast today. There we go.
Phil
We're gonna do it because peace is available in this present moment. That's a quote that Lauren and I repeat at least once a day on a stressful day, it's closer to 10. The quote is from Chandresh Bhardwaj who is our esteemed guest today on Brand Therapy. And let me tell you quickly about Chandresh. He is one of our longest clients. Actually, probably the client we've done the most . If you count them on one hand, you might even need two hands. I think we've done the most projects, number of projects with you, Chandresh. We started with you when you were really starting to build your business and your brand as a spiritual advisor. We've gone on to iterate and rebrand and launch. You have a book The Dalai Lama wrote the foreword to it. You've done workshops in more countries around the world than I can count. Chandresh more recently launched the most amazing brand that I'm sure is going to come up in this conversation, Leela Gurukul is a school for meditation. Oh my god, it's so good. I cannot wait to dive into this conversation. Welcome to Brand Therapy Chandresh.
Chandresh
That was a really lovely introduction. Really, really amazing. Thank you, Lauren and Phil, I'm so glad to be here.
Lauren
Okay, let's talk about all things peace and mindfulness today. Yes, Lauren needs it. Because Adobe Audition is going to give me a heart attack. But aside from that, my hairdresser cut my bangs too short, but other than that, life is good. Chandresh I feel like every entrepreneur on the planet, and maybe every employee on the planet feels like they need to hustle to be productive and significant. And they need to be grinding 24 hours a day. Do you think that's true? And if not, why do you think mindfulness is important? Why is it important for people to rest?
Chandresh
I mean, I always felt it's not okay, and not right to be 24/7 living the idea of productivity or hustling. But recently, I think in the last few years, I started experiencing that productivity could easily lead to stress, anxiety, pressure, unhealthy competition in the mind and mind is very interesting. It can create imagination, it can take you far ahead in the future. It doesn't exist in the moment. And it can make you work really hard without any results on the table. It's like you know, being on that merry go round, you feel you're moving really fast and you feel that thrill. But after the merry go round stops, you're just there feeling a little more dizzy.
And I hope in the last two years with COVID and all the people that didn't go to work they didn't have to, most of the people didn't have to drive and didn't have to go to work. And I hope that made them realize that mental health, understanding of your stress, your anxiety is way more important than any work out there.
Mental Health has to be number one priority for sure. And it's just important to rest because if you don't rest, you will not be creative and well I’m not be a not fan of the word productive, I'm more of a fan of the word creative. And I try to replace that in my mind that I need to rest so that I can be creative. I'm consciously letting go of the word productive and inviting being creative on a daily basis. Not super easy to replace that because we are so wired to be productive. But when your mind starts to accept the idea that this guy is showing more creativity, not productivity, then I think the results are far more magical.
Lauren
How can someone become familiar with identifying a stress and anxiety without necessarily succumbing to it?
Chandresh
I think stress could be identified with, first of all, building a good relationship with your mind, body and soul. If I don't have a relationship with my own self and my own emotions, I think I'll always miss that identification. Each time I'm feeling anxiety, any conflict, instead of fighting with the symptoms, I remind myself of this mantra, POP, pause, observe and proceed. So pause in that moment, and pausing as I've trained my body. Now, each time I, you know, come across a conflict, even a negative comment on social media or something that really triggers me I pause in that moment. Which means I'm not going to take an action right away, I'm not going to react to it right away. I instead, you know, move to observation, why I felt the trigger, why my body suddenly felt this shrink, why my body suddenly felt uneasy, why my emotions are getting a little, you know, angry. And also I remind myself, I'm experiencing the anger, I don't have to be angry, my entire body doesn't have to be angry. And then I proceed with what's possible. And guess what he says possible conscious choice is possible. And then I proceed for that conscious choice. And if you know if you keep doing this, if you keep repeating it, the body, the mind, the soul will understand that this is the new software you're installing. And you know, it doesn't go back to the old routine. But it's a daily reminder, the POP, that's the mantra,
Lauren
Why do you think it's important for people to meditate?
Chandresh
I think it's important for so many reasons. You are here, as a human, you're breathing every day, you're not here accidentally, you're not here to wake up every morning, go to work, pay the bills, and be a robot, be a machine. Meditation is important because it makes you realize you don't have to be a machine every day. It makes you realize that you don't have to look for happiness out of yourself. You don't have to look for happiness in the wrong places. It gives you the courage, the calmness and clarity, which I think we need globally.
You know, right now, meditation is important for countless reasons for me personally, courage, calmness and clarity. Like this is something I actually end quite consciously in meditation. Because I know, if there was no meditation, I wouldn't be able to do what I do. As a school kid. I was very introverted, very shy. And I had a very tough time, you know, I shifted, I changed my school after fifth grade, the new school was much more fancier. And I was in India. So at the new school, everybody spoke English, I didn't know how to speak English. So I felt very misfit inferior. And I was like, What am I doing in this school, everybody's way richer, way more classy, way more fancier. And then that's when I got deeper into meditation. I was in sixth grade. And one day I meditated for a little longer. And in those days, my meditation was doing a mantra or just sitting and you know, feeling that solitude, and I felt a little more confident every day. And I kind of got obsessed with it, because within a few weeks, a few months, I just became really, really confident, calmer, and my grades improved. And that just changed everything. And even till this date, when I feel lack of courage, doubt, uneasiness, I know where to go. It's meditation.
Lauren
Now for someone, like Phil, well actually Phil, I shouldn't speak on your behalf. But Phil, have you tried meditating? Like what has stopped you from making it a regular practice? So I would love CB’s input on kit.
Phil
Yeah, I am generally a calm person. So it's not something I feel like I need to do every day when I wake up. But I think I have forms of it. Even if I'm not explicitly sitting in a spot, listening to a meditation track, etc. I would say this morning, I went out for a run with my headphones. And that sanctioned time allowed me to think about my day and reflect so it's not a formal meditation. I am generally a very positive and calm, chill person, unless I'm dealing with something stressful, which isn't that often. Sometimes, honestly, mostly travel related, but even work related you and I work through it. I don't ever feel like I have 100% of the weight of other challenges on me. I've got people in my circle that I work through those things with that I actually don't carry. And maybe it's also partially my personality type. I'm generally cooler than a cucumber. So I guess that's why I don't do it formally, but I appreciate it. And I think there's a lot of people who benefit from it. I love hearing about what people learn about themselves, or how they find that time valuable. It's not something that I make time for every morning, for example, honestly, I feel like you need to make that time used for exercise, which is something I like far less but know that I need to do.
Lauren
Well, I guess actually, that brings up kind of a good question: do you think, like, is meditating just a traditional sitting with your eyes closed not really thinking but more observing? Or can you meditate while moving or while exercising? Are there differences ultimately, between those types of things,
Chandresh
If you look at certain traditional schools of spirituality, they would, of course, tell you that meditation is all about sitting with your eyes closed so that you can look deeper. But there is intention behind that, you know, closing the eyes. Those teachers who teach that or who have been the know, creating wisdom traditions around it, that intention is to experience self realization, enlightenment, awakening a certain energy in you. And for that purpose yes, sitting with eyes closed is powerful and helpful. But the deeper meaning of meditations, is death of mind, or going beyond the mind.
So I also feel anything that can take you beyond the mind could be contained as meditation. So first, like, if you look at people dancing, many dancers actually forget that the body is dancing, they lose themselves in that. Singing, when you start singing, you lose yourself in that practice. And I think with someone like Phil, Phil himself, when he's looking, when he's traveling, when you're looking at certain design graphic, you are beyond the mind, you cannot create what you guys have created by being in the mind there is that I think a stepping out of mind happens in your work very often. And that's why maybe you feel that meditative energy, and it brings you calmness. For me, a meditation, sitting down is one way but being in nature, writing poetry, that does take me out of my mind. And I realized that meditation, just not sitting. Sitting has its own separate reasons, you know, and intentions. And if that's not part of your plan, then doing something that can take you beyond the mind that will be counted as meditation.
Phil
That's a really good answer. I feel that for me, I mean, my new hobby, and I would say, I would use meditative as an adjective, meditative hobby of 2021 is scuba diving. And it is so that. It is so what you've described, obviously, I don't do it every day. But when I do, do it, I'm down there and I'm by myself, I mean, I'm with Javi, but we can't exactly have conversation. You're forced to be silent. There's no sound, other than if a boat goes over you, which is very rare. There's no sound and it's so amazing. It is exactly what you just described, my version of it. And I think it's so cool how people have or or people should find their own version, exactly what you just said, it's how can you escape the mind and be mindful about doing something beyond just working through your daily to do list?
Chandresh
Absolutely. And we all have it, we just don't become available to it. We all have those outlets. And if you feed them, they become your meditativeness as they become part of your meditation journey. I think we just need to step out of that comfort zone and start experimenting more.
Lauren
Can you explain what it means to raise your vibration? I've been seeing it all over Instagram, I don't understand it. I don't know what a vibration is. I don't know what can be raised. Could you just give a little 411 on that?
Chandresh
Do you read to raise your vibration or is it raising your consciousness or mix of both?
Lauren
Oh, maybe I'm so out of my league, that it's both.
Chandresh
So you know, raise your consciousness, a lot of people use that it's a mantra in a spiritual community and my take on that is the consciousness is already raised. You are not raised like my consciousness is always pure evolving so is yours but we have this tendency we are wired to live in the mind. So we keep saying raise the consciousness that's already raised. Are you available to that consciousness, you know, are you available to that infinite creative fair, less consciousness. So if I keep saying I will raise my consciousness and make an effort in the wrong direction, I need to get out of my mind and then I will become available to consciousness. The other part, raise your vibration that's more like a law of attraction. thing you know, vibration energy. It's really like who you are like when someone walks in a room. Sometimes you feel really emotional, connected, caring, or sometimes you just get annoyed by simply a stranger walking in a drain, or in a room, it's basically our energy, it's affecting the room, and vibration or energy could be a mix of many things. Your fair, like in this room right now, like the three of us, I feel the vibration of all three of us is affecting each other. So if I was unhappy and showed up for this, it would affect both of you. If one of you were unhappy, and showed up for this, then it would affect me. So mood, fair, anxiety. imagination, is your mind racing to ahead in the future. I think it all comprises the vibration. And raising it really means, in my opinion, cleaning it, relaxing it, you know, not rushing, not constantly trying to fix something in it.
Lauren
Cool. I know Phil has a really incredible presence when he comes on calls. There's this burst of creative energy that always gets people kind of relaxed, and takes out any potential standoffishness out of the calls or out of the room. I do not feel like I'm a person who does that. Do you have any advice for someone like me could bring a bit more to or like establish what vibe the room could be? I don't know if that's like, good question. But basically, how do I create a calm, relaxed, creative atmosphere on calls?
Chandresh
You know, I've noticed you always say that about yourself. I think you underestimate your presence.
Phil
I agree.
Lauren
Oh, I just always feel like I'm bringing this frantic energy.
Phil
No, maybe back in the day. But I think you've been working on your own ability to stay calm. There's a disparity between how you interpret your own presence, and how it actually is.
Chandresh
Absolutely. When I first heard you say that, Lauren, this was, I think many, many calls ago, I thought you were kidding, because I was like, she really has a very calming supportive presence. You know, I've been working with you guys, I don't even know how many years now. And you both have such different energies from each other. I think that's why it works out just so perfectly. And what I'll tell you, I agree with everything Phil said.
And secondly, what I have noticed in you is the increase in self awareness, the fact that you are mentioning all of this about yourself, it also means you're not bypassing any tough uneasiness. You're not living in a bubble. But yes, it also means maybe you're being too tough on yourself, maybe you are, you know, being a little too perfectionist in the mind that I need to be just super zen, or just super calming. I genuinely feel that you bring a very supportive, caring, and just the right energy to the room. And to take it further to take it deeper, the easiest thing you can do is just work with your breathing. It's unimaginable how powerful, easy, the power of breathing is, what I usually recommend is inhaling the breath, holding it for a moment and exhaling, even doing it for three to five minutes, it changes the complete vibe. Like before this call, I had five minutes. And that's exactly what I did. I tried to bring it on as much as I can on a day to day basis. Breathing is very powerful, very therapeutic.
Lauren
Well, and thank you for the kind words, I guess, maybe a big part of mindfulness for people who are a bit more type A like me is maybe also just like loosening my grip on the steering wheel in a way. I'm curious to know Chandresh when you enter calls with people, do you try to read the vibe of the room before saying anything? What goes through your brain before you go into a session with someone.
Chandresh
When I used to do public talks before COVID I used to sit. I would arrive early, I would sit in the back of the room. And I would actually read the room even when I go to rehab because it's more than one person, I would just feel I'll stay silent. And I'll just feel, witness from far. I never prepared any doc, never prepared any kind of meditation I would be doing with them. So whatever I would feel, I'll start, you know, expressing that. And that would become the talk of the day.
Now when I do one on one, of course I do pause and I try to stay conscious. But what goes into my mind is the element of receptivity that I'm not going to preplan. I'm not going to throw out what's on my mind already, even if I have email from them already. So I tell all the students to email me before the session what things you want covered. But when they start talking, I think I act as a therapist in that moment, just let them express and talk. And many times, they don't even mention what they have emailed because something else starts to show up. And I tried not to interfere in the process.
My job in the first half of the session is to just be receptive to anything and everything they are sharing, without any judgment holding a safe space for them. That's really on my mind is that am I able to hold a safe space for their expression? Am I able to be a supportive energy in that moment? In the second half of the session, then I would share my advice, and again, let them know, soak it in.
Lauren
Is it a little nerve wracking to be without an agenda? And just kind of at the mercy of time, or is it something that you like,
Chandresh
I tried the other way, that became more nerve wracking for me, I would prepare the whole outline and plan and that still makes me very nervous. Unless I have a notebook and I'm writing it all down, and I can keep looking at it. Most of the time, it just flows like that.
Now, based on your recommendations, I've started doing more consistent YouTube videos, and the only retakes I do in those videos are when I prepared the outline, because I forgot to say this or I forgot to say that. And all my videographers, they have said the same thing, that when you talk without preparation, you talk normally. But when you are talking from what you prepared, it looks like you are, you know, just saying what you have memorized.
So I think it just has become part of what I express now, effortless. If it's really important and sensitive to have, let's say something like Ted kind of opportunity will show up, I'll not show up on the stage and prepare. I'll prepare an outline here. But for most of the sessions, I do, yeah, it's just a raw.
Lauren
Phil, you prefer it that way too right?
Phil
Totally. Yeah, it's also and I think you've built this Chandresh over the years, we've watched you transform into really someone with so much wisdom. You had it before, but now you're confident in your stance and how you show up. That's the difference. I think it comes down to the confidence in your own ability, that you're able to insert blank, able to help someone face their challenges. Not necessarily tell them what to do, but actually be the one that helps them realize, you know, things on their own. Just my take. I think it's actually confidence, which isn't built overnight. It's something that's built through errors and wins, through just a sheer variety of different types of people and challenges that you've helped them encounter. Even the ones you've dealt with yourself as a business owner. It's interesting, isn't it?
Chandresh
You know, one thing that I had promised myself when I left banking, Wall Street, that I will not restrict spirituality to one location. I started this in New York, and I was in between Manhattan and Long Island. And things started to go decently well over there. But I started to feel very tight in that space. And I knew that I needed to go beyond that because I didn't want to restrict my expression to just the community in New York.
And I started experimenting to do talks in different cultures, different countries. That's how I think the mind started shaping up. Even growing up, I had a wide variety of exposure. I grew up in a family that practiced Tantra Hinduism, but I went to Catholic school. I went to the Dalai Lama's monastery every week, almost all the six temples, the mosque in India, they became part of my meditations. So I think I grew up in such an open space spiritually. I never felt any divisions in my mind that this belongs to this religion or belief system.
And the same mentality showed up when I left Wall Street. Why just speak about spirituality to the people where I live? Why can't I travel somewhere else? And my first major breakthrough that really gave me confidence was Amsterdam. It was like I remembered I was walking there and there were some few friends there and we were walking and there was a line that was like, all the way in on the street. And we joke that you know, one day, I hopefully I'll have a you know, crowd waiting for me and that was the crowd for actually my thought, that it was the most bad crowd. I had a really bad throat. I had just come back from India.
But it just changed a lot in my mind. And I promised myself that I'll keep experimenting, keep pushing myself into different cultures, different mindsets. And that's still my goal. And that's when Leela, who has people from various countries, including a beautiful student from Afghanistan. And you know, her perspective and the recent live calls was so heartwarming because we had someone who actually is living through this right now. So it was just very powerful to witness. It's not easy, I think I have to train myself every day that I will not just do it the way it is happening with everyone, I'll keep pushing myself to be more innovative to be more creative. And I think that's why I come to you guys, whenever I need a fresh perspective, and not spiritual perspective, but just a fresh perspective. And I think that works always for me,
Phil
You are such a good example of someone who is confident, but also balances that with no ego, and an awareness of ego and a humbleness, and also a perpetual desire to keep learning and becoming better. And if I look at our most successful clients, I've said to Lauren before, my favorite part of this job that we have is the fascinating people that we have such close, intimate access to. And with that, I think you're one of those people, when we look at our most successful clients, it's a common trait. They know how to check their ego, and they're always working on themselves to get better. They all have that trait.
Lauren
Well, I also think they have a mission. It's a mission that goes beyond getting a certain number of students in the door, or a certain number of clients. It's more a mission than to actually make a dent in the world.
Chandresh
Yeah, you know, for me, it comes from my teacher, my father is my teacher. So he's very humble, very, very chill out, very profound, but extremely easy on his ego. But there was one interesting video, I think some people will relate to it. Jim Carrey was at this New York Fashion Show award many years ago, and the journalist stopped him. Hey, Jim, you are here, you know, we were not expecting you. And he said, I was looking for the most meaningless, silly, stupid thing to go and what's more meaningless than just this award show where people are giving awards to each other in in one community. And then he said, you know, we don't matter. And that's great news, I actually had that video saved on my phone. And I recorded a podcast with that same title just a few months ago, because it really became my mantra that we don't matter. My mind may make me feel or you matter, your story matters and you are the center of the universe, everything moves around you. But that's not at all the truth. The truth is, we don't matter 50 years from today, who's Phil, Lauren Chandresh, like who are we just gone? So the humble acceptance, we don't matter. It just takes away the seriousness and takes away the ego.
Lauren
Do you have any words of wisdom based on your own entrepreneurial experience for our listeners? Like, is there anything looking back that you wish you had known earlier with your business or wish you had done differently,
Chandresh
I feel consistency in everything you do and do it for yourself, don't do it for a competition. And don't wait to get the validation from family or friend or partner or anyone. Do it for that purpose, which is much larger than you. Lately, that's been my biggest realization, that the work I'm chosen to do, you know, I think it's the same for you guys, right? If you really honor it, with love, trust and consistency, that work becomes much bigger than you, which means it goes beyond your fear, beyond your ego, beyond your dreams, beyond your desires. And then basically, you're serving that big mission, because until it doesn't become bigger than your existence, you will always be fragile, and that he will always feel weaker, because the agenda is something else it could be bringing in more students could be having seven high ticket clients, it could be all of those materialistic things which are important to pay the bills. But I think the ultimate goal should be to allow that work to become much bigger than you so that you are serving it, you are contributing to it. And it's not happening for a reason. That's just exhausting you, draining you. And keep a common collective mind in the process. I think consuming content every day, every hour, that's something I'm I fully turned off. You know, we used to dry play a podcast, you're not you're just doing things in the house, play a podcast or read a book every time. I feed consuming too much information that also takes you away from being creative because there's so much noise in the head. So I try to keep things very simple, calm and empty, you know, in the mind, really,
Phil
You've given such great advice in this half hour, so practical. You've given us little acronyms and little systems and reminders. Thank you for all of that. And also, before we wrap, how can people get more of your incredible wisdom? Where did they go? Where are they look? Because if you don't say it, I'm going to.
Chandresh
So to listen to more of what I talk about on my podcast, Leela Gurukul. And if you love the design of it, these two people are to be credited and honored for that. So that's the podcast. I think that's where so much of my life journey experiences and stories are. And other than that leelagurukul.com, the school that again, you know, you both have really nurtured it. I think, if I could have one memory to fully honor and celebrate with you guys, that would be Leela Gurukul. It's everything I had ever wanted so it's very special.
Lauren
That was a highlight of my career. For sure. No question.
Phil
That brand is one of our Hall of Fame brands. We're so proud of how everything came together. In large part because of how much you trust us to deliver that it gives us the space to be creative, and to be challenged and excited to have a vested interest in seeing the success of this. And it really is, it's continuing to grow. It's super practical. It's an amazing resource for people and a practice to build into their day to day people who have to check out Leila. They have to check you out on Instagram, and your podcast is amazing. It's like, you just get 30 seconds of Shawn drash in your ears. And it's like all of a sudden it's like okay, now I can take a deep breath. And now I can focus. It's like it just takes 10 seconds of Shawn drash his voice. He can take a deep breath. It's true. It is true. True. Really, it's been brand therapy today in large part. Thanks to you. Thank you for spending your valuable Minutes with Us on the podcast. We appreciate you. Let's have you back again because Lord knows we all need it.
Anytime. I was looking forward to being with you on the podcast, I know this wasn't planned for so long, and I'm glad it happened even though we are in different countries right now, but I'm glad it happened.
Boom. Thanks so much Snodgrass.
You guys
