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Who wants to go viral? 🙋🏼‍♂️ In this fun Brand Therapy episode, we meet with Instagram Reels expert and food mindset coach Jessie Golden to learn the secrets. Hosts Phil and Lauren grill Jess on her tactics for making Reels—getting ideas, filming, editing, the works—while breaking down her secrets for getting 250k+ views. We talk about getting uncomfortably specific, finding inspiration, and getting out of your own way for Instagram Reels success. If you're hoping to grow your social media presence, this episode is for you!

phil

Hello, welcome to our podcast Brand Therapy. I'm Phil.

Lauren

And I'm Lauren.

Phil

And this is the place where we help you position, build and promote your brand. Oh boy. Oh boy, are you in for a treat today. We literally hit record, this call started maybe 30 seconds prior to this, and I can truly say, I haven't been this excited in a long time to record an episode because I feel like I'm meeting a celebrity. Lauren, do you feel the same way?

Lauren

Oh, yeah.

Phil

This individual is, in our eyes, a celebrity. Her name is Jessie. But we're calling her Jess because that's her nickname. And that's how we know her. You, I'm sure listener have heard us talk and maybe even listen to episodes with our dear, wonderful golden child, PaleOMG Juli Bauer Roth, one of our proudest clients, one of our also greatest successes, probably our greatest success of all of our client projects in a decade. Well, Jess is best friends with Juli. And she's here on our podcast today. And I'm going to just tell people what your brand is about. And I'm going to tell you why you're here, Jess, and I'm gonna let you talk.

Jess

Okay.

Phil

Jess, you're so many things, but you're a nutrition coach. I love how you word this, you're dedicated to helping women overcome the battle with food, body image and mindset. Way to sum it up in a sentence, what a brand! You are the best, you are an incredibly talented content creator. I absolutely love how you create Instagram reels. And that's what prompted me to say you know what, we have got to get you on to talk about this. But we also just want to talk to you in general, sorry, but it's true. So the episode will be somewhat focused. But also, I'm giving permission for us to talk about whatever we feel like talking about, because it's officially our first time having a conversation in real life. Welcome to Brand Therapy,

Jess

Thank you for having me.

Phil

I'm so excited to hear your brand is growing, and you're becoming bigger, you're becoming so good. As a content creator, your content is so good. I think you know exactly who your audience is. I'm sure we'll dive into this. But really every time you appear on my feed, I watch what you have to say, and even though I'm not probably your ideal target audience, it doesn't even matter, because I'm so fascinated by how well you know, your audience and how you can create for them time and time again. You do it exceptionally well,

Jess

Thank you. It's quite the compliment. It took me a while to get there to this point, but I feel like I've finally honed in. The algorithm is something that still gets to me these days in terms of trying to decipher what is actually resonating. But I think in terms of messaging and hitting on pain points, I feel like I'm there.

Lauren

Did you always know who you wanted your audience to be? Or is that something that you kind of discovered, as you posted more and more?

Jess

I started out too broad because I was trying to be too influenced, sorry, that makes sense. At the beginning where I wasn't speaking to try to sell something, I was focusing on what I wanted to talk about rather than what the client needed to hear. And then, once I learned the difference between a coach and an influencer, I tailored my messaging and got really, really niche. And then I feel like as I started to get more eyeballs on my work, then it allowed me the freedom to expand just a little bit. So my content now is not just geared towards helping women heal their relationships with food, it's also geared towards women wanting to ship their bodies or just overall health and nutrition.

Lauren

What do you think the difference between a coach and an influencer is?

I think influencers are sharing what they're interested in. Whereas coaches are sharing what the client needs help with.

Lauren

Was there kind of a lightbulb moment or a piece of content you created where you're like, This is what's working?

Jess

You know, I hired a business coach who prior to that the business coaches I had worked with were kind of fluffy, like mindset. And I think that there's merit to that. But this coach really helped me learn copywriting and the immutable laws of marketing, that you have to actually solve a problem for your client. And I know that seems so basic, but the way I was working and posting content before it was like, ‘look at my meal’, and that's great. I mean, some people can find that inspiring or what have you, but it wasn't actually, ‘oh, I want to give this girl my money’.

Lauren

How do you come up with the problems that you want to solve in each post? What's the process that goes through your brain?

Jess

I focus on where I was when I was struggling. So what do I wish that someone would have told me? And then I'm constantly in contact with people in my DMs. So people are just asking me questions a lot or I throw up question boxes in my stories, and that I do that a lot for market research just to understand where people are struggling.

Lauren

Oh, I love that idea, that's so good. Okay, so now we've gotten some background, and I want to know about your experience with reels. So we have a lot of clients and listeners who want to get started on rails, but they find it really, really intimidating.

Phil

We just got off a call with one, we just got off a call with a client who said, ‘this is so stressful’. And I said to her, I agree with you. I don't like them. We need to call Jess.

Lauren

Yeah, so have really been something that I've always come naturally to you? Or were you just as confused? In the beginning?

Jess

It was a little intimidating, just the tech component of it. And one thing I will give myself credit for is I'm pretty willing to look like an idiot in most things. So when I start, it's okay, if I just have no idea what I'm doing, I'll just start and figure it out as I go along. So I'm always willing to do that. And that was my first reel experience. I feel like when they were very new, I just tried and rip the band aid off as quickly as possible.

Phil

That's good advice though.

Lauren

Don't be scared to look like an idiot.

Phil

Yeah, rip the band aid off.

Jess

I feel like that's entrepreneurship in a nutshell. It's like you just have to leap before you're ready. So the tech stuff, I feel like I'm, I mean, I'm a millennial, and kind of intuitive with, you know, technology. So I just got in there and started to play around with it. But I feel like the trajectory for reels in terms of what is working and what isn't, that's already changed so much, since reels came on the scene. So what worked then isn't necessarily working for me now.

Phil

Yeah, there's a really good quote by my friend Harry, Marketing Harry on Instagram. He posted this a few days ago, and I just went to find it. I want to read it. It's so in line with what we're talking about. He said, ‘you don't have to be a great content creator to start, but you have to start if you want to become great’. I love that.

Jess

I totally agree. You just refine it as you go. I think I read a quote when I was at the beginning of my entrepreneurial journey that said, ‘no one wants to be seen starting from the bottom.’ But when you think I mean, because it's just you're making a fool out of yourself. Kind of you think that but no one is looking at you being like, wow, look, she has no idea what she's doing. People are just like, wow, I don't have the balls to do that. That's pretty cool.

Lauren

And also, I think what's fascinating is that the grace you're showing yourself, as you're figuring out reels and potentially looking like an idiot, as you said, is that I feel as though that's in line with what you coach your clients on. Don't be so hard on yourself, you're just trying to figure things out, take it day by day, experiment to see what works for you. That's kind of an interesting parallel.

Jess

Totally. Yeah, I appreciate that. I think you're right. I also think another advantage I've had because I have friends who get really stressed out with content creation is I just view it as fun. I've always viewed content creation as something that's just a creative expression. And I don't take it too seriously. And the people I resonate with the most that I follow, are the ones that have some element of character or personality behind their stuff. So I feel like they gave me permission to do the same thing. Just have fun with it.

Lauren

Okay, there's one real I'm looking at that you posted mid September, that has over 250,000 views. Well done. That's yeah, bananas. What do you think makes that reel special?

Jess

Yeah, I've had two, that one and one other one have gone viral. The first one is about carbs, which is such a controversial topic. So to me, that's the reason that went viral. And then this one was very specific to the CrossFit community. And so I realized that, oh, I need to get even more specific with my reels. And something that I feel like is only going to resonate with 10% of my audience. That's actually what gets me in front of eyeballs outside of my audience in terms of virality. I think

Lauren

That's so smart. I'm thinking about it in terms of if a baker was posting reels, it's not just about running a bakery or baking things, it's about mastering the perfect cupcake, or really, really forcing yourself to drill down and be uncomfortably specific.

Jess

Yes, uncomfortably specific is a great way to put it because it is limiting you think.

Phil

You talk about the same types of things. Your brand is very specific, but I'm always so amazed at how even if you touch on the same types of themes along with what we're saying, it still feels so fresh, and I never, ever get bored of you hitting on the same types of themes more than once or twice. I actually like it. And I think Jess, so many creators are worried about talking about something too much. And it's this conversation that is making me realize that isn't so not a valid fear.

It’s not something people need to worry about. In fact, you should be motivated to talk about the same types of things, particularly as something hits or something goes viral, then a lot of people are going to be seeing that piece of content for the first time, particularly reels, given that Instagram is so focused on that vertical and getting it out on the explore page, etc.

Jess

I appreciate that. And I think I need to get in my head around that too. I think God, aren't people sick of hearing about this. But I try and always come back to be, I had to hear the same message 1000 times when it came to what I teach in order for me to finally understand it. And I'll post the same thing several weeks in a row. And I'll still get the same questions in my DMs. And I think are you guys not getting it? I thought you got it. But clearly, I need to say it a different way. People I try to package it differently, basically. And it sounds like that's the way it's coming across. Hopefully,

Phil

It is. You package it differently, even if it's exactly the same theme or even a really super close theme. But my point is that for me it has the opposite effect. I actually like hearing it more than once. We assume that people don't want to hear something more than once. But actually, I think they do. I think they do want to hear the same message told in a slightly different way, particularly in an industry like coaching, fitness, nutrition, marketing. Why are we so worried about saying the same thing twice? Actually, we should say it more than once. I don't know. It's like a bit of an epiphany moment I'm having even in my own content, because it's like when I talk about something, I I check off the box and go now I need a new topic. But at the same time, that almost is a disservice because I tackle a lot of different things, and I think sometimes it's not specific enough. Where as you go, you get uncomfortably specific, the best sound bite from this conversation so far, and it works for you. It works for you. And I think this is going to work for others.

Jess

That's interesting. Now that you're saying that, because when it comes to me learning from you guys, it is like Phil, I love seeing your content, I learn so much from it. And there are certain topics that you cover where I think, oh, I need to see that 10 more times, because there's so much for me to learn about it. You're the expert, I'm not an expert at all. So there's so much more for me to learn about it.

Phil

But what's interesting, my style of content creation on a platform like Instagram is not that conducive for growth, in my opinion, compared to yours. I actually don't grow that quickly on Instagram. I think I grow in quality, because I put a lot of effort into it. And just the nature of our business, I attract high quality people. And I love that. But I'll jump from talking about Instagram to talking about how to read a teleprompter. And so it's funny because I'm talking about how that's a disservice to my brand. But you're saying no, keep doing that because I learn about things. And so that's just that healthy kind of tension that I think all of us feel, all these other people are doing it so much better. I need to do it like Jess, you know, but actually, it's just a good dialogue to have to see where everyone's at and how you're learning.

I think, to get uncomfortably specific, I've got a lot of friends, we've seen it with your growth. It's not just growth, but your engagement, you get a ton of comments and people that are really thoughtful engaging in your material. And the advice I got, we've had Lucas on the podcast before my friend Lucas O'Keefe, who grew to almost 200,000 in just over a year, he said to me, ‘Phil, who cares about growth? You have such high quality people that you're attracting, organically, who cares about growth, just keep those high quality people happy’. And that, talked me off the ledge for a little bit. You know, kind of interesting.

Jess

Yes, for someone who grew to 200,000.

Phil

And he's quick to say to me, ‘I wish I had that the high quality that you have’, and I look at him and go, ‘oh, my god, if I had that many followers, I could be doing content full time, you know, like influence or style. Although I like what I'm doing now. But again, it's just conversations and perspectives, I think make you better and make you aware and it's really important. We're always in on this so much on our own, to your point. We do so much of this ourselves, then talk about this conversation I just had in my own head.

Jess

Totally. That's one of the reasons I'm so grateful for Juli is that we can go back and forth on this stuff and not feel like we're, I mean, because none of my friends do this aside from Julie. So that's really interesting perspective too.

Lauren

Jess, could you walk us through your content creation process and also include how long things take you?

Jess

Okay, I don't know how exciting of an answer this is gonna be, but it's gonna be honest.

Lauren

Yes. Yeah, let's be honest. I feel there's this disillusion out there that content, something that should take 10 minutes and not take much of your time if you're doing it properly, but I have a feeling it takes most people a lot longer. But anyway, I want to hear from you. What does that look like?

Jess

So I used to be regimented because that's what a business coach told me to do was that I need to plan on my content ahead of time. And I realized that that just was not exciting to me, and not to be kind of be immature in the sense that I'm saying that everything in my business needs to be exciting, but I just felt like my content was better when I was doing it the day of or just the week of. So when I get going, I write down ideas in my notes app, I have that open all the time. I've learned this so many times, I think I'll remember the idea and I don't. So I always write down the idea as soon as I think of it. And then when I have 30 minutes, I'll go out and write out a caption usually doesn't take me that long. And with reels specifically, what I've been doing is I just go into the explore page on reels, and I see which ones are trending.

What I started out doing with reels, and I'm going on a bit of a tangent here, but I was doing more ‘ 3 steps to’…and that was working well in the beginning, but now I feel like the trendy voiceovers are getting more attraction. So I go to save those. And honestly, I don't overthink those. That one that went viral. I made that in 10 minutes.

Lauren

Really?

Jess

Yeah.

Lauren

Oh, my gosh!

jess

This is a cool idea, let's just send it and see how it does. And then I think for me specifically, the more I overthink my content, the worse it does.

Phil

Oh my god, you're so smart.

Lauren

Yeah. Just being strongly influenced by what's working for other people, makes so much sense.

Phil

So can we, I don't even know if you finished answering that question, but I have an even more specific question because we're all about specificity today.

I want to watch you come up with an idea right now. I want to get into your mind when you go to create because it's not just what you talk about, it's how you create your reels that I love so much: the colors you use, which are on brand, the way you put text on screen, the pacing of them, it's just so easy to consume. So can we come up with an idea right now of something that you could post tomorrow? And just walk us through like that? Let's do it.

Jess

Okay, so this is an example of one. I don't know if you guys can see this, but it's let me turn on the audio. Yeah. It's like a game show.

Lauren

Oh, like Who Wants to Be a Millionaire?

Jess

So it's like that suspenseful countdown. And then you have the different answers listed there. And then it's like, oh, what are you going to choose? And then it fills in the green one. So I would choose online and say, okay, what is the question that I've been getting, particularly for this time of year with holiday eating? How should you make food decisions for the holidays? And then it'd be like, based on what your grandma says, based on what your mom says, based on XYZ, something like that for your mindset. And then probably the last one would be like, whatever the fuck you want. And that's what I would choose.

Lauren

There you go. And it would take you probably about five minutes to film it?

Jess

Yes.

Phil

And so you would film like you pointing or whatever, just based on the example that you pulled? You literally just open reels, and you got inspired by the first thing you saw.

Jess

Yes. Yeah, this is the third one, I saw the third one you saw.

Phil

Okay. So you would save the audio so that you can use it for your own? Right?

Jess

Mm hmm. Yeah. And then usually, if I go through, and I'm on reels, because I don't like to spend time on reels I don't play, I like to consume the reels very much. But I have a note section for reel specifically, where if I see an idea that I like, I'll write down the audio name, and then I'll put my idea for the subject and the captions below.

Lauren

Here's something that's so brilliant about your approach is that it's all rooted in questions you're normally getting, or problems you're normally seeing. Whenever we work with clients, we always recommend that they create a questions document where they throw in every single question that any client or customer gives them, or even online, just so they can start thinking that way. And I don't think many people actually do it. But I love that you're living proof that when you pay attention to what people are saying they want help with, you can have great success.

Jess

Yes. Honestly, it's a good reminder to me because I feel that recently, I've been focusing kind of on stuff that I want to post. I mean, still answering their questions, but whenever I go fully back to what is his person is struggling with, which was like me five years ago, then it nails so much better?

Lauren

And what were some of those things just so that our listeners can start to think like you in your shoes? What were those struggles that you had?

Jess

So for me when it came to food, it was like are carbs actually bad? Should I not be eating carbs? I should be doing CrossFit workouts five times a week when I'm living a really stressful lifestyle? What does it mean to take rest days? How many rest days should you take? Things like that.

Lauren

So literally the day to day questions that pop up throughout someone's mind as they're going through life.

Jess

Yes. And those are things that I don't think about at all. So I have to make a conscious effort that it's not about me today, it's about me five years ago or where my client is today.

Lauren

What are some of your favorite tools for creating content? Editing, scheduling?

Jess

Oh, gosh! This is where I'm heavily influenced by Juli because I feel like everything I do is pretty bare bones at this point.

Phil

We're not asking for you to list fancy tools, I can do that. That's my world. I actually love that you're like, oh, god tools? I don't know. Because you don't overcomplicate it, you don't complicate it. That's a tool in itself. Thank you, people who use too many tools, are tools!

Jess

I've just never understood when I see people, and they're like, I, this is my revenue, but my profit is so much lower, because I'm outsourcing everything, or I'm making it so much more complicated. And I just want to streamline.

So my business model is automated webinar funnels right now, because I just like automation, so that I can have more fun with the creative side. So the tools I use, I mean, I don't even, I use Acuity for scheduling, that's the only one.

Phil

No, but it's cool. I love that you embrace automation, to be able to free up on the creative stuff. And I think it really shows in the content that you create. But I love it. I think the lesson here is don't over complicate your life with tools. There's also tool envy. It's like, then you get invested in something and then something else comes along, and then you want to try it. You also have to put a value on the transition time from one to the other and having to learn it and all of that. A lot of times it’s not worth it, stick with what you know, and keep it simple.

Jess

Truly, I think that's been the biggest thing for me is I'm so good at trimming the fat off things that just make my business difficult, because I know I'm gonna resent it. And I'm just not going to do what I need to do.

Lauren

So do you edit your reels, right in Instagram?

Jess

Yes, I do everything in Instagram. And if there's a specific effect or audio that is specific to TikTok that I see going around, then I will go into TikTok to create it. And then just I forget the name of the website, but there's plenty of them, where you just remove the watermark from tick tock, and then download it and upload it to Instagram.

Lauren

Amazing. And do you use any app for editing your photos?

Jess

I use Lightroom. And speaking of editing, I'm curious about your guys' thoughts. I don't know if I can ask you a question, but I feel like photos are starting to come back. I know Instagram just said that it's moving away from being a photo app. But I feel like people are really starting to like good photos again of human beings. It was so much about infographics and stuff that I'm seeing real photos do really, really well.

Phil

I feel that it also could be that what you're seeing is conducive for the type of content that you respond to. Instagram tracks a scary amount of activity from how long you spend. I'm the same way, just because I actually hate having volume on when I've got Instagram open. And there's nothing that drives me more crazy than when I go to my feed, and there's something stuck at the top, and it's a reel and it's annoying. And then I go to watch a story and I go back to my feed and that goddamn thing is still there yakking and shouting. It just has to and then I go to another story, and then I come back to my newsfeed and it's still there. It's still there and it replays. It drives me crazy.

I like for things to be silent on Instagram. And so I love good photos and thoughtful captions. Carousels are pretty popular and the education type, you know, content creators. I love carousels because they allow me to teach, which is what I love the most. But we are noticing right now an increase in single graphic posts. So one image that might have lots of good information on it, a Venn diagram, or a little chart.

I did a little chart a few weeks ago that showed the limits of Instagram and a ton of people saved it. And I could have had that as a detailed carousel and that would not have actually performed as well. So we're totally agreeing with you. Individual photos, high quality, thoughtful story behind it told in caption and single infographic or charts or simple single image posts are doing very well.

Jess

That's good to know that second one for sure.

Lauren

I mean, it's kind of nice to receive the opposite of what Instagram is pushing on you. I agree with you Phil, honestly, I opened up my feed and it felt like everything was a reel or everything was an infographic.

Phil

The only reels I like are Jess’ because they’re simple.

Lauren

It's true. I go to TikTok for the others.

Phil

I try to embrace reels and it's just not my favorite. I don't create them. So I don't enjoy making them but I'm trying to get over this and I selfishly wanted this conversation to be inspiring and I am.

Jess

If you just make it as simple as possible, and I think you are inherently so entertaining though, that your reels are going to be great.

Lauren

And your stories Phil! I have been on Phil for years now to start doing stories where he's literally just talking about the camera. No teleprompter, no script, just let us feel like we're sitting on a call with you. And he just he just refuses. Whenever you ask Phil to do something he tries to do the opposite!

Phil

Fine, I'll do it after this. Yes, I have an Instagram I've coming up in a few hours at the time of recording this and I still even in promoting this, haven't even talked to the camera but I'll do it right after this just because you said I have to and Jess said I’m entertaining. Fine you both win, I'll do it after this.

Lauren

Jess’ approach is smart though because Jess you're complimenting him meanwhile, I'm like Phil, just god damn do it. Like, which isn't like maybe the most effective method.

Phil

You know, we're gonna do it, we're gonna turn this episode into a blog post. And just you've given us such good advice to just not overthink it and just do it. We appreciate that. To round this conversation off, can you please tell people where they can get more of you because you're just the best.

Jess

Thank you. You can find me on Instagram primarily. And my username is jessiemgolden

Phil

talk about your new podcast please since we have podcast listeners, and they should just transfer right over to yours.

Jess

Thank you, The Jessie Golden Podcast I wanted to keep it nice and open with topics so you can find me in all majors directories/platforms.

Phil

We appreciate you. This has been awesome. Thank you for hanging out with us on Brand Therapy.

Jess

Thank you for having me. I loved it.