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Do you know your life's purpose? 🔮 If not, don't fret, because scaleup strategist and overall genius Ramón Estrada T. is on Brand Therapy! Hosts Phil and Lauren meet with client Ramón to discuss his tactics for preventing burnout, inspiring vision, defining your purpose, and, importantly, aligning your business with your life goals. This episode will give you questions to get you thinking about the bigger picture—and motivate you to get after it!

Phil

Well, hello there. Welcome to Brand Therapy. I'm Phil.

Lauren

And I'm Lauren.

Phil

And this is the podcast where we help you position, build and promote your brand. I'm happy you’re here. You're here with one of our very favorite, favorite, favorite people, people in general. He was a client, but he's also a great friend. Do you want to know something funny? In fact, I've seen this young man, this esteemed man in person, way more recently than I've ever seen Lauren Moore in person. His name is Ramón. He's a scale up strategist. We just had the best, and I mean, the best lunch about a month, maybe a month and a half ago in Barcelona. Ramón, welcome, after all this time, welcome to the podcast. We're so happy you're here.

Ramón

Thank you very much. I'm extremely happy to see you virtually after yes, having a delicious vegetarian lunch in Barcelona. And of course, it's great to see you too, Lauren. I hope to meet you physically one day.

Lauren

Oh my gosh, I can only dream of it. And I didn't know it was a vegetarian lunch. as well. Now I'm even more jealous.

Phil

It was honestly, the lunch was exquisite. It was absolutely perfect. And what's funny, is I mean, we're gonna be talking about Ramón in this, but we also have Maria, who has Ramón’s wife and also a client of ours. We worked on two totally separate projects with the two of them. So even for me, it was crazy to have the two of them side by side, because they're so funny and complimentary together, but also the hilarity of them working with us separately. We didn't really cross over, Ramón, we were very focused on your project. And then Maria came later, and we focused on Maria. So to have the two of you sitting side by side, it was hilarious for me. I absolutely loved it.

Ramón

Yeah, it was crazy. Actually, I was just thinking before coming here that actually our kids, we have a nine year old boy and a five year old girl, they have heard of Phil and Lauren for the past maybe a year and a half. So they know you!

Lauren

Oh my gosh. We always say that we feel like any child in the Estrada Díaz-Morera. Did I get those last names? Right family is so lucky. I would love to be adopted into that family. Did I get the last names right? By the way? Like the combination of how you say it?

Ramón

Yeah, the combination? Usually in Spanish, you use the last name of the man. It's a little patriarchal, but it's the man and then the woman. So it is Estrada Díaz-Morera.

Lauren

Okay. So could you just give us a little synopsis of what you do and how you help your clients?

Ramón

Yes, absolutely. Lauren, what I do is I scale up strategies. And what I do is I help my clients to unleash their creativity, their innovation, by working with their authentic leadership, what's really important for them, and how they can use, let's say, their companies as a vehicle to impact the world. And what I do is mostly I need them, let's say, some mixture of coaching, going really deep into the values of the founder, the co-founders, their purpose, and also consulting by looking at how they can work in their business strategy and tactics, so their businesses can grow. And that's a little bit of what I do.

Lauren

Amazing. So what someone should do if they're in a slump, and they're completely burned out and uninspired.

Ramón

It's a little bit counterintuitive, what I'm going to say, but they should stop saying that they are in this slump, or they are in burnout for a reason. And sometimes, I think especially in the western society, we're not used to taking pauses to reflect on what's going on. So I see these as a result, as an effect, or of many, many things that this person has decided to do. And I have been there as well, right. But we surely have the solution, the solution to tell me what to do. And the first thing that we need to do is not to do, we need to realize how we are and take just a moment to pause and to reflect and maybe to connect back with something that we really love to do. Because when we are burnt out, our energy is low. We are probably not in such shiny mode. We are in a negative mindset, where maybe we are a little bit grumpy, we cannot sleep well. So I think just taking some time off, and I don't know how long it will be but it will be just one hour to chill out. Maybe go to the movies or take a nap or walk in nature. It's important not to keep on acting and nagging or getting more exhausted.

Lauren

It's really good advice. Because I feel like at least for me whenever I'm getting on the edge of burnout I'm just thinking of my to do list and actually talking down to myself and being like, you've got so much to do. And yet you're not really being that productive, like, come on, work harder. So it is hard, really hard.

Phil

You almost need permission from someone else, which is so weird. Like, it's so hard to give yourself that permission. But when someone else says, Hey, chill out, take an hour, it's like, oh, wow, thanks for that permission. Yeah, that's a great idea.

Ramón

But going back to what Lauren just said, usually we realize that we're in a burnout when we are really exhausted because we cannot reach our goals, right? So all our focus is on where we want to go, what we want to achieve. And we don't realize that together, we need to do things. And to do things properly, we need to be, let's say, in a better state of moods in a better energetic state. And that's what helps us to calm down and to clear our minds.

I think it's essential to find a way to clear our minds, we are all different people who like to exercise. So that's also helpful sometimes, but if you're exhausted, maybe getting that extra energy needed to move the body that's not going to help, but maybe going to the sea to the mountains, taking some time there, like these Japanese practices of going into the forest, right and just breathing the fresh air. So that's needed.

Lauren

What do you personally do when you feel yourself on the brink?

Ramón

Well, that's going to sound a little bit crazy, but actually, I try not to be there. Okay, let's take a step back why I am a scaleup strategist, because eventually, I burnt out as an entrepreneurial founder. So right now I am doing what I wanted someone else to do to me right about helping me with the coaching side, as well as helping my business to grow. So right now, what I try to do is, every morning I have these habits, this practice of taking the time to start, of course I have an agenda. And I think that, Lauren, this has been most of you have been extremely helpful to me by aligning in the, in my branding process, or what I needed to do to get where I wanted to go, right.

Lauren

Oh, that's so nice. Thank you for saying that.

Ramón

I have to recognize that you are a doer. In that sense, but for me, habits are ways in which we are unconsciously doing many things. So if we incorporate some healthy habits, thinking habits, recharging habits into our everyday life, it's going to help us not to reach that burnout. So it's not just breaking the glass and taking, you know, the emergency pill. So what I do is, every morning, I take some time to meditate or let's say that you can just come down and realize that okay, how you are feeling. And what I do is yes, I meditate, I take 20 minutes, 30 minutes to do some breathing exercises, to be aware about how I am and also to take the time to visualize what I'm going to be doing in the rest of the day. So that's also like a signpost of what's coming. And in that way, it's funny because my mind starts to strategize. I don't know if that's a word. Find the ways in which I can cope with the day. And also it has been like an emotional rehearsal of how I need to be throughout the day, because maybe there are times in which there's something that I'm not that excited about, or meeting certain people. So I have these mental rehearsals on my mind really early. And I get these, the energy to do these kinds of things.

Lauren

One of your specialties is helping founders find their purpose, and channel that purpose through their business. So could you break down that process of where someone can even start with finding their purpose?

Ramón

Yes, again, it goes against the doing thing, because we all love formulas. We all love technique. So okay, tell me what to do. And I do it. Actually, it's about going a little bit. It's reflective. It's something that 's about what's important for each person, we are all unique. Not even twins are like really, really the same. So we need to find out our uniqueness. And it goes a little bit analyzing our life. Our crucibles are the moments in which we really had some tough moments. And it's about realizing in those moments, how we behaved, what was important for us. For instance, money as an entrepreneur is important, but it's not the top priority for everyone. Most people when they are launching a company, there's something there's a reason they are doing this. There was this pain that they suffered or they wanted to solve a problem in the world.

So finding a purpose is something that it's really it's where I think that the true energy of the intrapreneur comes from this side, this light that eventually will guide the entrepreneur into the big project. So purpose for me, it's really, it's something that is close to our hearts. And mostly, we cannot see this in the future, we need to go into hindsight in which moments that we were facing, what really connected with us in the moments that we were not that clear, where things were difficult, what was important. So I can tell you in my life, I have had these moments. And I noticed that family, for instance, was really important for me when moments I had to make a decision, my family was something that I really cherished. So I like the aspect of the family brotherhood of community building communities, serving people to do a greater good, that's important for me, that's closer to my purpose. So it's about the purpose. It's close to the person's beam. And we work with the founders in these with a conversation about questions like, what was in your mind? What did you decide? Tell me a little bit about it. So that's also where the guy comes from about taking different perspectives, and allowing the purpose of the person to show up, because it's not something that it's tangible. It's not like this market, right?

Lauren

Yeah. Could we do a little exercise? And we ask Phil, these questions about purpose? How would you feel comfortable with that? Y

Phil

Yeah, sure.

Lauren

Phil is like I'm congested, but I'm down.

Phil

I'm congested and jet lagged, but here we are. Let's make this interactive. I can't promise a good answer. But I can promise an answer.

Ramón

I thought about this Phil when we started Is that why does brand strategies important for you? Can you tell us why is this important? What happened maybe in your life that you decide, hey, listen, this is something that I want to offer the world.

Phil

Sure. So I'll give you the short version of the story. When I was doing my masters, and each month was a different focus the way that the program was structured. So there was one on negotiation a month, there was a month on financials, which I hated. And I like making money, but I don't like looking at spreadsheets, there was a month on branding. And that month for me was like, wow, this is something I really enjoy. This doesn't feel like work. So that kind of reaffirmed an industry or a focus that I liked within business. But when I graduated, I kind of followed the path that everyone thinks they need to be on, which is go apply for a job and work for someone else. I literally did not get a job. So I thought, okay, with this additional pressure of being Canadian in the US having to not just work to pay my debt from school, but also work to stay in the country, or they'll send you back. If you're not doing anything like you have to actually you're audited by immigration. They're like, what are you doing? Is it an internship? Is it is it a job? Is it nothing? Okay, go home is literally how it works. So for me, I learned early on almost by accident, that there's so much power in having your own brand, having control, having access to freedom, not right away.

To your point, finding your purpose is not an overnight exercise, but you have control to run this marathon, not a sprint, but every single day work towards building something to show for yourself. I think it's really sad when people spend 30 years working for someone else's dream. And so I think my passion in personal branding, specifically branding for people, of course, we do branding for other things. But Lauren and I are both obviously passionate about helping people build something that gives them control and gives them access to freedom and goals and achievement. There you go. How's that answer? That was pretty good, actually.

Ramón

I loved it. I think that having you jetlagged makes you more introspective, it helps you to your energies more instead of out right, yeah. So yeah, there are like two elements that I would like to grab from your answer that I personally love.

One is, the first thing that you said is that for you, branding, it doesn't feel like a job. It doesn't require a lot of your energy. It's just like I don't know, like you can be creative, playful, this is something that I can say because I have been in the process.

But the second part is that these ingredients are probably closer to the kind of person that you are and the kind of things that you want to do. You face this moment, this crucible moment of leaving school and not finding a job right. So you can connect with the pain that some people have faced at different stages, not only leaving the university but even a moment when I don't know if the economy goes down. And they don't, you're all they have is a LinkedIn profile, right? No brand.

Phil

Totally or even someone that's been in a career for a long time and is pushed out because of their age. or because of something like that, I really feel that. I definitely connect with the stress of not having control, I guess over your next step. Even in our business, which is a decade old and is, you know, fairly safe and secure even though no business is safe and secure. I'm always thinking, what else could we be doing to have these little safety parachutes. It's just how my mind works. But it comes from that place.

Equally Ramón I feel grateful that the circumstances or events in my life have led to realizing what I am really passionate about, what I really enjoy doing, and what I'm really good at. I feel kind of bad for people to go a really long time without finding that. And it's always my goal, I think in the work we do, it really helps people discover that, we give people the space to discover that, I think, and that's what Laura and I are both passionate about. It's interesting, I always feel bad for people that don't find that right away, or those that don't find it at all.

Ramón

But I think to find it, you just mentioned a few words that for me are keywords and one of these these words is creating this space. To create a space for something new to show up. Because let's think about let's talk a little bit about creativity, creativity comes from, from something that it's not here that it's in our imagination, it's our in our unconscious, and we need to build it right. For this to happen, we need to create a whole space, and you cannot hold or create a space without pausing. Because otherwise you're moving all the time. So when you had these moments of leaving college and finding a job you needed to stop, and to allow the circumstances to it's like these magicians on the cauldron, right? You need to get the ingredients working around to create these new potions, something new and wonderful. So holding the space is wonderful. And you need to pause for that.

Lauren

Okay, now, Phil has reflected, I think Phil's purpose is fairly clear, I'm sure Ramón that you would always help your clients even drill down further, but for the sake of this exercise. Now, what could someone like Phil do with this knowledge? And how could someone like Phil, apply this purpose to his business? If we're looking at how he's spending his day to day? And what's taking up his time? Like, what are the questions, he should be asking himself to make sure that he's living his purpose?

Ramón

Let's think of these, as one of my mentors uses the GPS metaphor. So it's about really, when we are using our phone and the Google Maps or Waze or whatever you need first to find a destination right. So it's about really thinking, where I want to go. And for me, with the founders, with the people that I work with, I like to think in two ways. One is where they want their company or their business to go in five years, like, it doesn't need to be something definite, but at least some sort of direction. And then there's the component of the person, the founder, who this person needs to be to be there. So once we have that destination for the company, the business, and person in a way of, because sometimes let me just say some here, sometimes people just have a direction in which they are not comfortable with. So the journey starts with a bad vibe. Now going back to your T-shirt Phil, you need to have a high vibe. Your future needs to be larger, more attractive than your present, so you can move there, otherwise you won't move.

So it's choosing the proper destination. And then it's about knowing where you are, and knowing where you are, it's crucial, because otherwise, you will not reach any destination unless you know where you're sitting. That kind of I don't know, your savings, knowing your skills. So then you're building, let's say reverse engineering. No, you want to be somewhere you want to be someone where you are. And you're just trying to trace the kind of possibilities to take you there. And I think it's important to realize something and my experience is that our left brain, our rational mind, will try to make us create these charts or these infinite to-do lists. And in my opinion, it doesn't work like that. We need to have like large milestones realizing that for our I don't know to think where Ramón is going to be in one year, probably I would divide the year in smaller chunks and to have these large tasks or something that good call deliverables in order for me to know that I am going in that direction in the destination that I want to go to.

And to do that, we need to take daily steps. And it goes back into realizing our purpose. It's really related to the destination. But as well, it's related to where we are right now. Because, if I am right now in a place that it's not close to my purpose to something that really makes me passionate, that I really want to go, I need to move. And it is also important to realize that this kind of journey needs to have a high energy because it's going to be close to our hearts, and it will probably make us vulnerable. So having a large destiny, a big future, realizing where we are choosing the paths, and then taking daily action is more action forward. Because sometimes we think that the destination is so far away, and we cannot see it, that we get demotivated.

So I would say that that's something important and another thing is to realize that we can do this journey with other people. It's about finding allies and finding the resources. In my case, I realized that I had the experience after launching seven companies I had experienced with coaching. But I thought, okay, let me get some help on my branding, right. And that's how I started my relationship with you, which actually, it was not on branding, it was on online courses on Instagram, and then building my mailing list.

Lauren

And here we are, here we are. Going back to the purpose points that you made, I was just thinking about how if you are aware of your purpose, and you're faced with an obstacle or a crappy meeting, or just some sort of challenge, and you go back to what's close to your heart, as you said, and think about, okay, what's my purpose? And how can I bring that purpose into this situation, I feel like it would make everything so much better. Yesterday was a frustrating day. And, you know, if I was thinking about my own purpose, and where I want to go as a human being, and apply that to this situation, it probably would have made it a lot more bearable, and maybe even turned something sour into an opportunity.

Ramón

Let's just think about something. Let's say our goal is what I want, there's a goal close to my heart, right? If this is close to my heart, and it's not happening right now, it's somewhere in the future, and I need to move towards that direction.

By definition, any goal or anything that takes place in the future, it's going to be filled with obstacles, there will be some things on the way. And that's because that's outside of our comfort zone. The only way not to have obstacles in life is not to move, right. But if I want to move right now, from here to my home, one of the obstacles is going to be the door, I will need to walk and I don't know what I will find a way. So let's realize that something meaningful, we are going to have obstacles by friends. And this is something that we need to realize. So we need to develop something that it's for me essentially, is that our brain and the way society works is that something is something we want certainty. We're going to want to fix things. Tell me the plan, give me that technique, and we'll follow it. Okay, that's part of it. But it's more important to be clear about our destination, where we are, and to keep on changing the map. That's why Google Maps changes the course, right?

When we have more traffic, there's an accident, you know, we can change. And I think that's something that makes us wonderful beings, as humans that we can change, we can find opportunities, and we need to be open to that.

Lauren

You are also probably the most well read person I've ever met in my life. I don't know anyone who reads more than, you read so much.

Phil

You Lauren, but you think Ramón reads more than you?

Lauren

And I read 80% fiction, which I mean has its value, but Ramón, I feel like you read it and devour everything. So I'm curious to know, are there any book recommendations that you have just for just in general and also in business that you feel like are must reads?

Ramón

Wow, that's a tough question.

Lauren

Well just do the 1000 Catalog book catalog in your brain.

Ramón

I read in a weird way, in which I'm reading several books at the same time, because sometimes I get fed up. I don't read I usually don't read fiction, which I think I should, because it really opens the inner worlds of people right to the author. So I think there's a lot of richness there. One book that really was close to my heart was Big Magic. by Elizabeth Gilbert, she's quite funny in the way she talks about creativity. Creativity, for me, it's a huge topic because it involves all our being really discovering things, analyzing what as well open ourselves. And she says that ideas are like these beings that fly, I don't know, are all over the place, and they land with us, they come and visit us and knock on the door and tell us hey, listen, do you like it? Okay? And she says that there is this limited time in which this idea is going to be with us, and that we need to do things with the idea. Otherwise, this idea will move somewhere else. So just the way she talked about it was fascinating.

I am also reading this one from Derek Seavers, how to live 27 conflicting answers and one will come to a conclusion. And honestly, these guy, I'm a huge fan. I don't know if you know, he's a story. But he was an entrepreneur, he was mostly focused on selling music. He sold his company, quite good. But let me just tell you one paragraph, if I may, from talking about creativity, again, he says, Please, the most valuable real estate in the world is the great jobs there, like millions of half written books, ideas never launched, and talents never developed. Most people die with everything stealing their side of them. The way to live is to create, die empty, get every idea out of your head and into reality. These are just two paragraphs, a whole essay. But you know, I'm Mexican. So I'm used to the other muertos, and this tradition of them and all these kinds of things. And actually, my mom passed away when I was 18, after six years of cancer, so I have this aspect of legacy, thinking about what I'm going to show the world. And I think that one of the things that we need to do is to show ourselves our uniqueness, our talents in the world, and then do something with them about the service. So that's why I think I value creativity, because it shows a lot about ourselves. And I think that, in a way, business is art, which is my podcast.

Phil

What a plug. What a segue, you also in that brilliant answer told us about your passion. What drives you, I think, is fascinating. I love that you had the book ready to do a dramatic reading.

Lauren

He goes, just grabs the book and reads, flips right to the page. You've given us lots to think about Ramón, I mean, Lauren, and I aren't shocked by that, because we spent lots of time with you. But if anything, I think this episode will hopefully rock you to your core and, and help you or give you permission to take a pause from thinking about your daily to do list, Lauren Moore, and actually go wait a second, what is the bigger picture here? What am I doing? How am I doing this kind of work towards building that legacy?

Lauren

How can I die empty? I love that.

Phil

I'm sure if you just heard that phrase. You'd be like, what on earth does that mean?

Lauren

Lauren’s going to a dark place, but I actually think it's a very optimistic outlook.

Ramón

Now that you say how can I die empty? I think if I die empty, I will live. There's a paradox.

Phil

So good. Well, you started to tell us Ramón where people can get more from you, including your podcast. Give us the whole list of channels and places people can get more from you because you're just you've got so much wisdom.

Ramón

Oh, thank you so much for letting me share this. Well, I have my website, which was designed and built by by your company, my

www.ramónestradat.com, which I'm really proud of the website and also my social media channels @RamónEstradaT. And my podcast Business Is Art . You guys had like in this podcast with so many episodes, I'm still in the seventh. But this is as well, something that I'm learning about, again, showing up right. And that's something totally good.

Phil

Well, thank you. I mean, it's been a long time coming. We appreciate you spending your time with us here on brand therapy. People should go listen to your podcast. We'll link to it in the show notes. And thank you, thank you for being here with us.

Ramón

Thank you guys. It's been lovely.

Lauren

Fantastic.