184. How do you generate publicity for your personal brand? (f. Lucy Werner)
How can you get PR without time or a publicist? 📰 You’re going to find out in this riveting episode of Brand Therapy. Hosts Phil and Lauren meet with Lucy Werner, hype queen and PR extraordinaire, to get the 411 on getting publicity as a small business owner. You’ll learn how to be strategic, send the perfect pitch, and get your name out there once and for all.
Episode transcription
Phil
Jealous of your competitors showing up in the news?
Lauren
Wish you could appear on podcasts?
Phil
Wondering how to book for conferences?
Lauren
Sick of getting no every time you put yourself out there?
Phil
In today's Brand therapy episode, we meet the hype queen and PR expert, Lucy Werner to figure out the answers to your PR and publicity woes.
Lauren
You're going to learn how to send the perfect pitch email, get on journalists, radar, and so much more. Let's get started.
Phil
Oh boy, I've been excited for this one for a while it's finally happening. My friend Lucy Warner is about to join our episode and hanging out with us. Let me tell you a little bit about Lucy before we do that. hype yourself.com, I dare you to go there right now listener unless you're driving. Don't do that. That's not the time for multitasking. Lucy is one of the smartest people I know when it comes to hyping yourself. What does that mean? We're talking today specifically about branding, also the intersection of PR, PR, but you know, I have mixed feelings about PR and ‘I Love Lucy’ ha I Love Lucy, because what she talks about is so tangible and practical. I know for a fact, you'll hang up this episode and you'll know exactly what you need to go and do to hype yourself.
So without further ado, welcome to BrandTherapy Lucy.
Lucy
Thank you for having me.
Phil
We met because you're an Adobe Express ambassador, com moi, that was in French because you live in the south of France. We met in LA at Adobe MAX and we became kindred spirits to second we met. And there's a lot of similarities, actually. But also differences in what we do and what we talk about. And I just think you build a really beautiful brand around this idea of hyping yourself in the form of a book which I have. It's actually a reward that ambassadors can get with points, which is so cool. I'm digressing. But Lucy, what does it mean to hype yourself?
LUCY
I think when I started out, it was actually I had the idea for a PR book. And as you know, because we've talked about PR, but titles, they can be a little bit boring and niche. And I was like how can I help people to promote themselves? Like, how can I help them? How can I help themselves. And then like, I started to think of my friend Ruben, who always said, I was this hype queen. And whenever I introduce people, I'd be like, Oh, hey, you've got to meet so and so because they've got 10 years experience in this and they know this person. And it was sort of this natural thing that I did. And I kind of realized that actually, my sort of favorite thing to do is stand side of stage and help people front a stage to get themselves out there.
So for me, hyping yourself is just having that confidence to put yourself out there. And I think actually, you know, our audience is slightly different, but in the British audience, we have this almost sort of Hugh Grant in Four Weddings and a Funeral awkwardness where we don't like to introduce ourselves, we don't want to do that elevator pitch. We don't want to say all the things that are great about us. But even on the kind of the US and the more global side, we might have our elevator pitch nailed, but then beyond that we don't know what to do with it.
So for me, it's that way of helping you to basically think about all the ways you can be getting yourself out there. So that's whether you're a guest on a podcast, it's whether you're speaking at a conference, it’s whom you’re doing IG live with, it's who you're doing brand partnerships with, it's everything that you're doing in the public eye.
Phil
Beautifully put, beautifully put. I love it.
Lucy
Thank you.
Lauren
Let's talk specifics. So you brought up a few examples of speaking at a conference, thinking about your brand partnerships, doing Instagram lives, I would love to kind of tackle each one of those and just get your thoughts or really quick recommendations on how to achieve those things. So if someone does not have a PR agent or representative themselves and they want to speak at a conference, what do they do?
Lucy
So before you do any of these tactics, there's two things that I recommend you do, first of all, know what your business goals are, right? So it could be different if you're a product or a service based business, you might be looking for an investor, you might be looking to attract talent in your business, you might be looking to grow your agency and get a big client. So when we start with what the business goal is, we can then think about who's that audience and where are they playing. So if I want to get in front of an investor, that's going to be a different conference to maybe if I'm just trying to sell a smaller end product to a small business entrepreneur.
So once we kind of got that mapped out then you pick out for me, I would pick out the conferences that you want to be speaking at, and kind of work backwards. Start connecting with who are the program managers, the marketing coordinators, the event coordinators, the partnership managers, look at the people who are putting those programs together. Try and attend one before you pitch it because then you're not pitching blind. It's always good to have an idea of the format and build on what somebody has maybe spoken about the year previously. And I think genuinely think about what it is that you can do to benefit their audience. The biggest failure I see when people come to hyping themselves is actually they almost overhype. And they'll say “this is why I'm so good, this is why I'm so amazing”. As opposed to, “hey, I'd really like to speak at your conference, this is why I think we'd be a good audience match to the audience I've already got, I can share it with my audience, these are all the assets I've got, you know, kind of almost show how you can support them as a business.
Lauren
Now, with brand partnerships. I'm guessing it's kind of a kind of rinse and repeat, but just adjust the medium.
Lucy
Yeah, I think and I guess one of the other points that I missed out is definitely start with your business objectives, but also looking at your values. So the reason why values are important is because you might have a brand partnership come on board, and particularly if it's the first time you work with a brand partner, your instant reaction is probably going to be hell yes. And then you might actually start to do a value match and be like, oh, actually, you know, I'm about championing equality and having fun, and actually, I've noticed that they haven't commented on this political issue, or they've got a bit of a weird stance on this, and I'm not sure that fully aligns with my business. So long term, do you want to be associated and affiliated with that? And I think that's why, you know, Phil, and I love being part of Adobe Express so much is because they talk about making creativity accessible to everybody. And across the board, they do really demonstrate that. And you can see that from the room full of ambassadors. So knowing who it you know, what you stand for, before you start agreeing to brand partnerships is really important. But again, be a true fan. So you don't want to stop pitching to brands just because you're like, oh, I heard this tech company's got money in it's giving it out to influencers. And actually somebody on my competitive sets doing something with them now, so I'm going to try and do it, like maybe start with who you actually use and what you already work with, because then you can have that natural affiliation.
Actually, a couple of the brand partnerships I've had come to mind to have been because I've talked about the product naturally anyway, and I haven't even necessarily tagged them, they've just seen it in an Instagram reel and gone “hey, is that is that my notebook?” And you're like, oh, yeah, it is, you know, that sort of thing. So I think being genuine in your fanship of that brand is a good place to start before you go for the approach.
Phil
Great, good advice.
Lauren
You strike me as someone who would be amazing at forging relationships with strangers, particularly online. I feel like that's your superpower.
Lucy
That makes me sound like somebody who rules Tinder.
Lauren
Kind of, but I'm gonna give a little bit of a preface to my next question for you. I think we've all received those horrendous copy and pasted PR pitches to get someone on their podcast or to consider having them write a guest blog post for you. And they're cringe worthy, because you don't feel special, and you know that this, you're one of probably hundreds of people who received this. But at the same time, when you're running a business, you don't necessarily have the time to custom write messages that are going to really help move the needle, particularly for what I try to do a lot of people.
So I just want to know Lucy, what are your go to tactics for cold messaging people online to build a business relationship out of that interaction.
Lucy
So I would say don't go for shooting to lots of people, because that's what I call spray and pray. And there isn't a way to avoid that, if you're going through a list of 300 is going to sound cold, unless you are not working, you're not going to be listening to 300 podcasts or attending 300 conferences. So typically, when I work with people, we sort of try and map out which tactic is going to be the most effective. But if we're starting from scratch, I'll be like, okay, let's set a target of what it is that we're trying to hit like one talk per quarter or one talk a month, one podcast a month, whatever it is, whatever is manageable for the timeframe you've got, and I really say pick a list maximum 10 and start with sort of who you know, and actually that can kind of be across the board.
In terms of, who you know, in terms of who it is you aspire to be collaborating with. But also there's sort of the low hanging fruit. So there'll be people in your network who are starting out who are looking for guests, so I often encourage my founders and small business owners that I work with, once they're clear on what their talking points are, just declare it to the university. I'm looking to start speaking on more podcasts, I could talk about X, Y, and Zed. Is there anybody in my network who'd be interested in interviewing me? The worst thing that can happen is tumbleweed and nobody responds. And it's fine, we'll survive it, it will go on, it will feel awful to you and the rest of the world keeps spinning, and no one will notice that.
Yeah, definitely time is like the biggest issue when it comes to doing publicity for yourself. But it's far better to do five podcasts that are great match for you and your audience, than to shoot for loads that aren't that perfect fit. And I think, just to kind of continue from that as well, obviously, we'll have an ego and we want to be in the biggest podcast, and we want to be with the biggest names, and obviously, those are the sort of people who are going to be bombarded with pitches, but actually, some of the things that I see that are the most effective are when you're going for that smaller niche. Actually, when people have that smaller group, they tend to be more engaged. And it can be a really good audience match. So really look at who could maybe be if you're a big corporate company, like who's your head of HR, who's your head of finance, who's your head of creative, who's the Head of Diversity and Inclusion, and find your kind of siblings really, that fit alongside the genre of what in the world you work in and collaborate with them.
Lauren
Brilliant, brilliant!
Phil
It's so easy to have self promotion items on our to do list continually get pushed down by other things we need to do for other people. What advice do you have? You've already touched on this theme, but what's your advice for people if all they have is 5,10, 15 minutes a day to promote themselves? Or think about building their own brand? What practical ways could people do that? Rather than just this feeling like a huge boulder is sitting on our heads and we keep procrastinating because there's other things for other people with deadlines, what advice do you have for people to chip away at this?
Lucy
I guess, I think it's like anything with goal setting. Once you set that goal, it's taking those steps to get there. And I always liken PR to being quite similar to DIY, anybody can kind of buy the paint and slap it on, but actually, the kind of the better end job that lasts longer is when you sort of take the time to prep the room, you might put your tape round, you get it mapped out, you might test out some colors first, and then you then you go for it. And I think the biggest mistake is people going, okay, I'm gonna do PR today, and they just wipe out that email and it's not really well thought through, and you're like, okay, that's it, that's probably your chance now that you might be able to follow up again later. So for me, it's really taking that time, if you're really driven to be on a certain podcast, or speak at a certain event, or have that certain level, whatever it is that you're aspiring to achieve as part of your promotion, it's that prep work.
So actually going, oh, you know what, I'm gonna listen to a few episodes, that actually is preparation. I spend a lot of my time if I'm pitching somebody into traditional media send more publicity and media relations, I will spend the majority of the time reading the articles and studying how that journalist writes and what it is that they talk about. And then I will take the time to do the pitch. And then actually that pitch emails the bit that I'll spend the longest amount of time on. The hit and send bit once you've got the email address, that's kind of easy. And I think it's this all this preparation is the bit that gets overlooked and you feel like you're not doing anything because you're not seeing any results. But I would say just taking those preparation steps and studying it's like almost, you know, back to school and during that exam. You can't rush that learning the syllabus. And it will show you'll show your test is the pitch email at the end. So it will show.
Phil
Funny you bring that up. This is something I think a lot about in our earlier days. This Lauren, I think was very soon around the time you started working full time with me but we did a little experiment. We had someone that was kind of doing an internship almost in a way with us and did some outreach for speaking and really just cold email people and actually out of the handful obviously we got no’s but we did get a few yes’s like good yes’s. When I trace back some of our biggest clients, they came from people who were known by people who were attending these events, that we we cold pitched and we got yes’s. And only recently, we keep pretty busy based on referrals and just presence on the Internet, but only recently have I started to reinvest in hiring a VA, first VA I've ever hired in my life, who is every day, chipping away at creating a list two lists one of AI and tech companies, that would be great partners for YouTube content that does very well on my YouTube channel, anything related to AI or tech, but it's always inbound and outbound, I think it's gonna give me I don't know, I'm just gonna try it, it might give me a little bit more leverage to say, hey, let's do a six month deal or a three month deal or something like that.
And also a list of events that are happening in places where I'm already going to be physically. And it's only recently that I've started investing in this. And I've had a few moments of like, Oh, my God, I'm, you know, paying for a lot of hours for this list to be made. But really, it's like, you have to invest in this, you have to make the time for this. And you have to hire people, you can't do this all yourself, if you've got a growing business, you need to delegate this, you need to prioritize it, I guess, is what I'm saying.
Lucy
Yeah, and I think this is where like, it's interesting, you're saying that you're using a VA to do this, because I think actually, a really good kind of promotional assistant is somebody who fully understands you, knows what you're about, knows what you can talk about, knows what you would say yes or no to, and I think there can be this sort of myth that you need to get a PR agency and pay 1000s of pounds a month for them. And one of the difficulties with PR, when it comes to that marketing side of things is it's not that easy to measure in terms of effectiveness. Whereas when you are physically speaking at an event, you kind of know sort of roughly in your head, oh, that's when I met this person, this person and this person, which led to this project where it led to this introduction, and I don't know about you feel but I've definitely found from my experience, that public speaking has been the biggest new business driver without a question. Same for us. So you can't really quantify really like somebody's time spent researching conferences and then pitching for it. But when it works, its magic.
Phil
When it works, its magic. And it's not always going to work. And it's going to take some time, especially, I would say I mean hiring PRs, a solution is typically a higher dollar amount for maybe more precision right away. So I'm hiring a VA, I don't expect a VA to know all the ins and outs of PR and pitching and have tons of relationships with journalists and conference organizers. So there's more work being done upfront to source that. But I will say she's done an amazing name is Bernadette. She's done an amazing job of getting familiar with my brand first before even emailing someone. And it's just a fun experiment that I hope pans out well. It's just fresh on my mind.
Lucy
When I started out, kind of trying to raise my profile, you know, I think whatever industry you work in, you think it's riddled with snake oil, right? But PR has a bad rep. Let's be honest, you know, there's there's this thing about what publicists are, like an ending England, it's very much more like absolutely fabulous, like darling, darling, champagne, which can't be like sometimes. But the point of the matter is, I was running a PR agency, I wanted to move into doing this DIY stuff and teaching people and helping them to raise their own profile. And of course, as soon as I started to pitch myself as like an PR agency owner, nobody wanted to touch me with a barge pole because they're like, that's not an interesting founder story. So actually, I was like, okay, cool, I'm gonna flip this, I would like to host an event in yours, I gonna host an event at your space, I will be the host. I'm going to invite three journalists to be on my panel, and then we're going to teach your audience how to pitch to those journalists. But I was strategic. The three journalists that I invited were all publications that I wanted to collaborate with, or potentially pitch for. So one of them was a journalist from a magazine called Career, which is a modern business magazine. It's beginning to expand more in the US now, and I was so excited because historically, business publications have been like, yawn fests, and this was like a glossy, luxury lifestyle. It's featuring quirky, creative entrepreneurs, the front covers, you're like, I just want to work with everybody featured in this.
So I invited this reporter to be on my panel, and then six months later, some a panel host dropped out last minute for their conference. And she was like, oh, I know this girl, she was a really good panel host. We should get her in. And that was then my first paid, presenting role doing something actually for me. I think I'm always getting told no, because I'm pitching all the time. And I'm doing it not just myself, everybody, so I've become a bit hard into it. I'm like, okay, they said no. How else can I do this?
Actually, with online now and post COVID, you know, we're all used to kind of online events and online workshops. If you're not getting yes’s when you're knocking on those doors, find a way to kind of curate it yourself and get in that way.
Lauren
Smart, so smart. Now, do you have a formula that you recommend when writing an email to someone proposing them to appear on in their conference or on their, you know, a blog or whatever? And I really, really want specifics. So for example, is the first thing that you do talking about your connection or mutual friend, then do you do a little three sentence blurb like break down the secret sauce of all this?
Lucy
I'm quite direct, even for, especially for a Brit, really. So I tend to go straight in there, because I know the people I'm pitching to are busy. So for me, not everybody agrees with this format. I don't bother with a hey, Phil, I've been fans of the show for years, and I was I really liked this episode, we interviewed our fellow Adobe Express. No one's got time for that. We all know what's happening here, we are pitching. So I literally even in my subject line, I'll be like, pitch for PR and hype tips for your podcast audience. And then I would introduce myself and be like, Hey, I've written a book, I talk about this, here's like three things that I think would be of benefit to your audience. Here's how I can promote your show afterwards, so it's going to be a benefit to you. Thanks very much. And then underneath, I will put a biography, and then maybe a biography of my business and any more kind of show off his stuff by he goes straight in there if like, this is what I can talk about. And this is why it's good for you. And then I do the bulk stuff, I haven't got it, I should actually probably get some kind of acronym of the steps. But for me, it's short and sweet. Definitely not going into the paragraph territory.
We are bullet points. And if I feel like it's somebody that really doesn't know who I am, and I'm not on their radar, I will probably put maybe a few links underneath of some other stuff that I've been in that's a similar audience to them. Not a competitor, but maybe something that just shows like, I can actually speak without tripping up on my own tongue most of the time.
Lauren
Oh my gosh, just to give that credentials. That's so smart. I've never ever ever heard of anyone being mad direct before. But it makes so much sense. I would absolutely pay attention to an email if I got it like that, because it's just cuts through the crap.
Lucy
I mean, like, even for instance, like I shared the other day quite clearly, like I have a newsletter. It's not huge. It's got 5000 people on it, the open rates 50%. That's fairly good for a newsletter.
Phil
It's amazing. What do you mean not? Yeah, there's so many people listening, going, oh, my god, I want that.
Lucy
It’s not about 50, 60%. It's mainly creative entrepreneurs. And I have a section at the end of my newsletter called friends and family where I shout out interesting podcast episodes, free resources, basically, anything that's going to help a creative entrepreneur to hype themselves. And I did this call out on LinkedIn being like, I'm writing my newsletter a bit early. I'm, you know, I'm way at the end of the week. So when I get it written, has anybody got any resources for my audience, the newsletters called the Hype using the title. And people were pitching. Oh, so I've got this like, first aid kit for toddlers, or like, there was an ethical shopping person. And I was like, oh, all of you people have got lovely businesses, but this isn't a match for what I'm asking for.
And I think people just saw that there's an opportunity to be in a newsletter of 5000 people, and they ignore everything else. Whereas there were other people phrase it like this, even like wrote the one sentence that I would normally kind of write to describe it. And I said yeah, in because you've made their life easier for me. And I think the more I speak to journalists, and I interview them, or anybody how to pitch to them, I think people can tell now that kind of like bs of, you know, I'm a big fan of or, or not.
And obviously, the big podcast that I did recently that Phil and I were giggling about as I did the Chris doe one and actually in it, I flipped it back on him and was like, how do you want to be pitched here? And he started talking about like, there's definitely two types of people. There's people who literally he's never spoken to who are like, can you promote this, can you share this, can you do that? And he's like, well, we've never even spoken before, and there's no payback for him. But when somebody is constructively engaging in his content all the time he notices them doesn't matter how big or small they are, and actually, it's kind of kudos to him. I don't think he's very ego lead and his guests in the way that some podcast hosts are. I think he is genuinely like, Do you have a different perspective and I'll include you. And I think that's an amazing opportunity for other people out there to really to show what the differentiation is and how that can be helpful to the audience.
And it's always that business case, right? If I can make your episode get more downloads than usual, because I'm going to take you to a new audience, then it's not then about me, just promoting myself and my products and services. It's doing you a favor. And I think that's it's that business sense that people forget about when they're pitching to be on something.
Lauren
Brilliant.
Phil
I love that episode with Chris. I listened to that episode with the two of you, it was really good. And I agree with you, he does not lead by ego. He was genuinely curious. He also I related to him having previous frustrations with the PR industry for reasons you mentioned earlier, that it's like it's this big promise and this under delivering. I know it's hard to quantify but I don't know you're an example of like tangible PR. We had a an episode previously with Claire Shields, based in the UK. And she's also very much about like tangible PR, and we loved our conversation with her. Maybe just to round it off. I've just have loved this you've given us a lot to do and a lot to think about. So maybe give us three quick action items that the listener is going to do today. I don't want you just listen to this episode and then float off into the world not taking action. Lucy, let's give the listener right now three things that they can go and do and they have to do it today just set this in motion and really prioritize hyping up ourselves.
Lucy
So number one, what are you hyping for? What do you need it for? Are you trying to get new clients? Are you trying to get brand deals start with that.
Number two, what are you most comfortable doing? Do you like writing? Does the thought of being on a podcast make you get really jittery? Pick the format that's going to function for you first. If you're time poor, and starting this journey, you want to make it easy for yourself. So pick your formats and know what you're doing for pick your format.
And then lastly, put it out into the universe on your LinkedIn on your Twitter, tiktok, Facebook, wherever you're playing, YouTube, put that call out. I am looking to start to promote myself because I am looking to attract more customers. I'm looking to get my first brand deal. Tell the world what you want. As independent business owners we love championing and supporting each other. It's one of the beautiful things about not being part of a huge big global corporate will. When you tell the world what it is that you're looking for, and how people can help you. They will do it. So publicly declare it tag Phil in it, he'll thank me later. Tag the show, tag me we can reshare we can be your cheerleaders, we can make sure it's not complete tumbleweed and if nothing else, give you an emoji support in public. But just start that step of physically putting yourself out there.
Phil
Genius. Thank you I knew you would deliver. Thank you for giving us such a fresh perspective on this a really inspiring perspective on hyping ourselves up. You're the best Lucy. Where can people get more? Actually that's the final question final? That's the final question. Where can people get more of your genius?
Lucy
That is actually the question that I always say like when Phil and I were last together in this Adobe Express room our fellow ambassadors wouldn't say wouldn't say his name. And then when he did say his name, he's like, you can find me on Instagram without saying what his handle was. So you always need a Phil or somebody in the room to remind you, where you can find me.
So I am @lucywernerpr. At least he won't appear on all social media channels, but I generally play on Instagram and LinkedIn the most, hopefully more into YouTube in 2023. But that's another story for another day.
Phil
Amazing. We appreciate you here on Brand Therapy.
LUCY
Thanks for having me.
Lauren
Thanks Lucy.
Phil
Thank you, Lucy, you're a star and I love that you have so many amazing opinions that I share when it comes to personal branding and you've given us so much to think about. Listener I hope you enjoyed this episode as much as I did. If you did please give us a review that helps other people discover this podcast we work hard to create five star, five star. Until next week you know how it works, we'll be back next week with a brand new topic and new episode. Until then, be well and we will see you then right here on Brand Therapy. Bye bye
