187. How do you make good business decisions? (f. Mark Maynard)
Wish you knew how to make your business more memorable? 🖼️ This episode will teach you how! We meet with business advisor and client Mark Maynard to discuss how to make important decisions as a business owner. You’ll learn how to create a vision for your business, get returning clients, and feel more confident than ever as you run your organization.
Episode transcription
Phil
Feel like you can never keep a client?
Lauren
Wish you were more memorable?
Phil
Wonder how you can make good business decisions?
Lauren
Then you're gonna love this episode with business advisor and client, Mark Maynard. Let's get started.
Phil
Listener, you're in for a treat today, grow your business beyond its potential, I am quoting from our dear friend Mark Maynard's, brand new, beautiful website. Who is Mark, you're going to find out today because you're listening to this episode, we've got him ready standing in the wings. Mark is a business advisor who grows new and established businesses through lots of things strategy, operations, culture, customer experience. So I imagine we're going to touch on pretty much all of those things today. And I feel like you're going to leave this conversation with a refreshed perspective on how to make decisions within your own business, regardless of industry. One more thing that I want to read, and it's a direct quote from our dear co hosts Lauren's words in Marks brand audit recap, as we work together recently, Lauren said this to Mark as we were trying to pinpoint his brand on paper, she said, “Mark, you have a perspective that helps people get out of their own way”. “And you have the tools to help businesses become memorable in every sense of the word.” I just love that. Well done, Lauren. Mark, welcome to Brand Therapy. We're so happy to have you here.
Mark
Thank you so much. It's amazing to be here.
Lauren
So Mark, first question, how would you define a memorable business experience?
Mark
Well, first, I'm going to split this in two, because we should have maybe put positively memorable experiences. But I think for the purpose of this discussion, to me, a memorable experience is something that leaves you wanting a little bit more, and wants you where you want to return, you know, in marketing speak, where you have a very strong return intention.
Lauren
I feel like a lot of us get kind of caught up in our day to day task list and our inbox and we don't really think about ways to make people feel good. I mean, you've helped found 1000 businesses, and so could you just give us a few example of maybe some decisions that were made that create positive, memorable experiences?
Mark
Yeah, absolutely. So Well, first of all, there's always going to be the technical delivery of service, whatever that is. And really, that's whatever you're doing, whether it's, you know, oil changes, or restaurants or branding firms, right. And so there's the technical things, but then there's this whole emotional component. And to me, that's where the memorable stuff comes in. It's that cocktail, or that piece of food that just stops conversation. It's that riff on a sort of piece of music, that you're talking to someone and all of a sudden, you're like, well, that's a really cool baseline. To me, those are those memorable things. It's something that kind of stops you in your tracks.
But those only kind of work. If you're doing the baseline of good service. You know, you two were amazing to work with. But it wasn't just because you were friendly. It's because you happen to be really good at your jobs, too.
Lauren
Yes, thanks.
Mark
And so I think that, to me, is the balance. So I don't know if it's memorable that all of the backend of my website works great. That's like the price of entry for you. And for me, the price of entry might be I show up to work on time for my clients. But if I can help create some aha moments for them, that's a memorable part where I help them glean insights into something they hadn't really thought of.
Phil
Mark. I was thinking about you this weekend. There's a lot of build up to this past weekend, at least at the time recording this episode. We went to Las Vegas. I surprised my partner with tickets to the Adele concert, which I basically had to forfeit a limb for, but we made it into a whole weekend. My mom gave him a gift card towards Hell's Kitchen at Caesar's Palace paces away from the concert. It was so it was a YOLO moment it was just a fun weekend that we've been excited about we invest in experiences we don't really buy things. So Hell's Kitchen amazing this Gordon Ramsay amazing restaurant walked in. I thought oh my god British food how do you really sell someone on this?
Lauren
That's so funny to be honest.
Phil
Yeah. No, that was my thought I was like really a restaurant like prime real estate. It's it's separated from all the other buildings and it's British food. And I couldn't even eat the main you know the main entree, which was beef, Wellington only beef, but they brought champagne before the appetizer as a little bonus. The kitchen it was an open kitchen modeled after the show. There was the red team and the blue team.
So I was watching the kitchen, they had it on the, you know, on TV playing in the restaurant, but not in a tacky way. Our waiter was amazing. It actually wasn't super expensive. I expected the bill to be twice what it was, it was just amazing start to finish. And I thought about you because I thought I feel like Mark, this is your work, this is what you do, you're in on the conversations, deciding the things that are really bringing me joy in this moment, so much joy that I'm gonna go tell other people about it, which I just did.
Mark
Right. So the trick now, if you were my client, for example, or we were working together to open a restaurant, what I would say is, okay, what really, what was the feeling you felt? Why did you think that server was great? What about the food? You know, you articulated that it was less expensive than you thought? Right? So let's say that you were a client, and you wanted to think about that, or we were colleagues, we wouldn't just say, okay, we want to be cheaper than the next guy, we would say, how do we provide a great value while still having an incredible quality? Because there is that trade off? Right? Everything is an either or, you know, there's a third way frequently, but it's like this series of forks in the road. So that server, can you articulate here what was great about that server, and then we can maybe discuss if there was something behind that other than your server just being lovely.
Phil
Yeah, he was lovely. He really listened. You know what, sometimes at restaurants the servers are almost too enthusiastic or too talkative. He was just perfect. He was like, fully aware, and really listen to things that we said, I don't know, he was just, it was just very well balanced his whole approach.
Mark
And so the optimist in me might say that that server was empowered to create an experience for you, he didn't have a script, for example. You know, we've all been to those places where you can tell that there's someone who was trained, this is the only way we should greet a guest. And then there's other ones that might say, make your guests feel welcome. And talk about drinks that might be like the extent of that. And so that's a choice, because depending on what experience you want to provide, you might want to customize that.
At a fast food restaurant, you may not want to customize it too much, because speed is the most important thing, right? But the higher end you get, you probably want fewer scripts, and more customization. And I think that, you know, fashion luxury, right? The difference between having a personal shopper, or going to Target or Uniglo to buy it, you know, you don't want anyone bothering you at Uniqlo.
Phil
You're on your own mission.
Mark
If you walked into a fancy place, and someone didn't greet you, you would be offended.
Mark
Right? Isn't that funny? You know, I love this idea of either or with you, Mark, I'm gathering that or talking about making good business decisions. I love this idea that it's like, it's this or it's this sometimes there's that third option, but this is helping me kind of think in that decision making zone. It's really interesting.
Mark
And yet, I don't think it's good or bad. I don't think it's a judgment, like, that's the right decision or the wrong decision. But if you're gonna, you know, I live in New York, if I were to go to LA or San Francisco, I could take the northern route or the southern route, they each have their value. But at a certain point, I have to make a choice. Which way am I going? Do I want barbecue and go do the southern route? Or do I want, I guess, not barbecue? And do the northern route? Or actually, do I want to go to Canada, I could go through Canada.
Lauren
So let's talk about decisions and business, then, I would say, and you correct me if I'm wrong. But I feel like a lot of people operate from either a place of instinct, or they operate from a place of data, you were kind of one of those rare people that operates in the middle. And so could you expand on just what are your just general thoughts on like, how to make a good business decision?
Mark
I wouldn't even say in the middle, I would say I'm grabbing it from both. And I think that is really important. It's really great to be aware of yourself. And feelings are an incredibly important thing. in anything that involves a customer, and someone selling something. Of course in life, our friendships feelings are really important too. And so I believe we can't forget the feeling part of it. You know, again, whether that's buying a car, you want to feel great after you buy that car, not feel like you were just taken advantage of. But then the data piece of it is really important. But in fact, I even worked with a researcher at Cornell, where we hold the data in a book that we wrote, to prove a lot of the instinctual things that we kind of thought were relevant.
For example, friendlier people at the front door of a restaurant, improve people's likelihood to want to go back to that restaurant. Now. There is nothing crazy about that thought, but it was really great to have thousands of people fill out a survey and said, I'm not going to that restaurant because the person wasn't friendly. That's it's really good to just reinforce that. And so to me, that's a, you know, kind of like an a duh moment. But there are certain things where data really does help. There are two parts of our brain. And I think we have to be aware of both of them. I think a lot of it comes down to do you lead with a sense of abundance, or are you trying to protect something. And the protecting piece of it is really boring to me, you know, you can't save your way out of a crisis, you know, you have to grow your way out of a crisis, a lot of things like that.
You know, there are restaurants who might be profitable, or any businesses who might be profitable, but who are shrinking. I believe in growing, which means, you know, having more customers, and happier customers, and more happier customers who are spending more money, rather than just trimming all the fat from everything. And to me, that's a choice, like, what do we want to focus on? Of course, we don't want to waste money, or we don't want to waste our time, or we don't want to waste our resources, but it's way more fun to grow our businesses, by having more people love us.
Lauren
Now, it's something that we've had challenges with in the past, is growing our little agency because Phil and I really are the main people running the show, we're involved with our clients and also doing a lot of the work. And every time we've tried growing to expand our team, or expand the touch points that clients have with our business, I've worried that that the caliber of experience that we provide is not going to like continue if we grow. We never want to turn into an In N Out Burger. Phil never wants to get to the point where he sells his business, that personal touch point is really important to us. And so I guess my question for you is in a situation like that, how can someone grow their business while still keeping it and making it feel memorable?
MarK
Well, I would say one of the first things that I have found to be really valuable exercise is to analyze my values. And believe it or not, well, actually, in a firm that's as small as yours, or as small as mine, or, and probably a lot of your listeners and your clients, those personal values should be very aligned with your career values or your firm's values. So if, for example, your most important value is time with family, or something like that, you might consciously make a decision to have no more than 10 clients, because you know, you could have 20 clients and make a ton more money, but you know, that would mean you have to go from working 40 to 80 hours a week. And then that would mean less time with your family.
That's one of those business choices. It's a life choice as well. If your value is I want to become a millionaire by the time I'm 30, you might have to choose something different. And the only person who can answer that is you. And within the realm of business, I like to be really explicit with things. I'm a person who's very direct. I like to challenge myself and challenge my friends and colleagues. And I also like to envision things. And so I like to in my executive coaching aspect of my business, I ask people to envision their future. And I asked questions like, what's the worst that could happen if you committed to this? And a lot of times the answer is, well, I guess I would have to work really hard. And then that becomes a conversation like, do you mind working really hard? No, I love working really hard. Okay, great. It's very rare that you ask someone, what's the worst that could happen, and they say, I lose my home, I get divorced, and my kids abandon me. You know, it's pretty rare that it's something so extreme. And a lot of times we put our own barriers, and drove our own obstacles on ourselves. And that goes back to the kind of defending our bottom line as opposed to growing our business.
So with you, I might say you have a little off site, the two of you, and you make sure your priorities are aligned. And if they're not aligned to try to get them as aligned as they can be. And that's kind of where that third way sometimes is, you know. It's not even a compromise. It's more like a third way, because I don't necessarily believe you need to lose something. And then you say, okay, now this is our decision for the next year, 18 months, three years. And let's forge ahead and let's create a bunch of short term goals to get us to that two year goal or whatever. But I really believe in being explicit. I've found in my personal life, and my work life that if you're not explicit, it's very easy to be a tiny bit off. And after six months, you're taking different routes and you didn't even realize it.
Phil
I think it's a good reminder.
Lauren
Yeah, such a good answer, because I feel like you know, it's one thing to set business goals. I feel like we're all very comfortable with setting business goals, but it's rare for us to think about the impact of those business goals on our personal ambitions and how that might affect things in your personal life. It's so interesting.
Mark
And we're just observing the third year of the COVID pandemic. And, you know, if we've learned nothing else, you know, mental health and our health with our families is really important. It's prioritized more now than it was certainly three and a half years ago, being a small business person myself, like you and like a lot of your listeners, I don't necessarily believe it's an either or, I don't even see it as a work life balance. I see it as, holistic harmony.
And unless, you know, sometimes, of course, you've made a choice to live in a fancy house. And yet you want more time with your family, and you don't want to work. Okay? Well, that's where your values are kind of not aligned, and you need to maybe revisit that. You might need to get rid of the Land Rover, so you can spend more time with your family because your firm can't generate the billions of dollars, you need to support your McMansion. But that's a choice. And that's an okay choice to make, to me, there's no judgment in that choice, it's just that you need to decide, it's going to be hard for it to be both.
And when you get that alignment, it's so amazing. And it's liberating. And that goes for business. I mean, that goes for running a restaurant or opening a bar. It's wow, when we kind of made that decision and it brought us in a way that we didn't even realize it was gonna bring us and that's so exciting. And now our guests love us even more. And I just think that's so fantastic.
Phil
I bet it takes a while to get one maybe not a while, but I bet it takes a lot of effort, let's say to reach that amazing aha moment of liberation that you describe. I know that there's a stat with restaurants like more than half, okay, I think I'm making this up. But it's something like this. More than half of them close after the first years, something like that.
Mark
Yeah, it's sad, you know, but I think when you peel back the onion on that, it's a little bit more complicated than that. I think that to me, is, Lauren, you asked me about, you know, the data compared to the emotional part of it, to me, that's where maybe the emotional part played a little too strongly. And we've all seen that, wow, you make the best cupcakes ever. You're gonna be great, right? And then you open a cupcake cafe, but you didn't do the math, to say, I need to sell 1900 cupcakes a day to pay for the rent that I picked, because I really wanted this corner spot. And you know, that's where honestly, someone like me, and there's other great people out there, of course, who can say, hey Lauren, you want to open this cupcake thing? Do you think in this location, you can sell 1900 cupcakes a day? And let's talk about that, because that's what you would need if you wanted to get this place. And to me, that's where it's not a good bad decision. It's just a, do you want to take that risk? And I think there are people who maybe they follow their dream a little too much without doing some of the hard work of self reflection. And or like, do I really want to get up at four o'clock in the morning to bake cupcakes or do I just want to show up and like, see my friends.
And doing the work behind the theme is so important, you just made me think I used to run a jazz club called Jazz standard. And every day, you know, we had live music seven nights a week, I mean, world class musicians. And it was incredible to me that these are famous people on the stage seven nights a week. And they would frequently come in, you know, the first show would be 7:30. And I would see them in there for in the afternoon, just doing their scales, you know, on the sax, on the piano, on the bass, and just all by themselves. It's the quiet, it's the alone time. It's the stuff that no one on stage, you know, the audience will never see you doing. That's the stuff you need to do so you can have those aha moments.
So you have to build that foundation. So you can have that inspiration. And I think that's a really important part, probably a lot of your people, you know, you do seminars, you do webinars, you don't just give them but you probably listen to other people too to learn more. You have to be on top of your technology, right? So some Yes, that is that. Yes. And you two are both geniuses, but you have to learn it somewhere, too. So then you can share it with people like me to say, oh, this is this great tool. I learned I'm really good at it. Now. Let me tell you about it.
Lauren
I think you're right, Mark, because, I mean, we work with really, really incredible people, I'm so so proud of our client lists. I would say that for the very few people we've worked with who have big lofty dreams and come to us with an idea that they want help turning into a reality, oftentimes, that reality doesn't come into fruition because there's a lot of work that needs to go into bringing these big dreams to life. And I feel like that would have been a really useful tool to ask is well, are you ready to sacrifice your weekends and evenings to be able to make this work, to sell this super expensive program? Or can you do something that's a little more accessible price wise and won't require as much time from you. Now I'm going back in my memory thinking of the flops sort of thing?
Mark
Well, you just made me think of something. Because in a lot of ways, my challenges as a new that, you know, having a new business that's only a few months old, are very different, which are, I was working 60 hours a week, and everything was always coming at me, you know, I worked in restaurants and bars, right. And so, I had this rhythm over 25,30 years, where I knew what, you know, 9am looked like I knew what noon looked like a new 8PM look like. So for me, a lot of what I did was I had to first figure out and I had a salary for those years. And so I then said I want to get rid of the salary. I want to stop working 60 hours a week. But I did the cupcake example, I did that for myself, how many hours a week do I need to bill in order to stay in business, so I don't have to go start driving Uber. I mean, you know, that's kind of, but that was the conversation I had with myself. I did that really early on, like six months before I opened the firm.
And then the next thing that I found was, okay, now that I know I'm not opening for lunch at noon, now, what is my motivator to get me out of bed. So I actually do something. And so it's a very different challenge for me. So instead of managing the stress of volume, it's managing, I guess, for lack of a better term, the stress of motivating myself every single morning. And I know your listeners and your clients can certainly you know, you have those moments where it's like, I just need a break today. And then you say, but rents coming due or my mortgage is coming due or my loan is coming due and if I don't bill five more hours this week, that I'm late on a payment.
Lauren
I know it's the double edged sword of working for yourself. Honestly, every time I take time off, I'm constantly having to tell myself it's okay to not work. It's okay to not do something. It's an internal battle that I face basically, every weekend.
Mark
Yeah, it's funny, you mentioned blocking time off, I have a family member who has worked for himself for 40 years. And what he blocked the time he blocked as he blocked the last two days of every month. And he tells his family, you won't see me for those two days. And so he works 10 or 11 hour days on both of those days, because then on the first of the month, he sends his invoices to his clients.
Lauren
That's funny.
Mark
So let's say he wants to he needs to build a client 25 an hour he you know, he's promised the client 25 hours of work. Ideally, he would do that, you know, six hours a week or whatever. But that doesn't always happen because one client might need your time. And so he'll just bang it out and be like, Okay, I just did eight hours for this client in one day.
Phil
Lauren's groaning because that's not her style, but it is my style.
Lauren
Phil’s very all or nothing.
Phil
I’m very all or nothing.
MArk
Yeah, you cram for the exam.
Lauren
Yeah, yeah. He's described himself as a pressure cooker. To me, he's like, I work best under the pressure of a ticking clock.
Phil
Yeah, the routine, the chipping away at something gradually, it's just, it's so boring to me that I can't start the task because I don't find the idea of chipping away at something exciting. I love the hate but then also love the hate of the pressure to create something with a deadline with some pressure.
Mark
I think a lot of people are that way. You know, I think a lot of people wish we were more like what Lauren described, but a lot of us slip into, you know, Doom scrolling and be like, Oh, I just lost six hours today. I guess it means that to do six hours more tomorrow, which can be challenging.
Lauren
There are inevitably times where you just have so much work that you like have to burn the midnight oil kind of thing. But you really have to develop a sense of discipline when you're working on your own.
Phil
We both have that in different ways. I'd say Lauren, you're more naturally disciplined than I am. I've had to learn discipline, which it’s not always there, but it is there. It is there, sometimes.
Mark
Well, you have discipline you go to the gym, so you're disciplined with that.
Phil
Yeah, yeah, because I pay a trainer a lot of money.
Mark
So you have an accountability partner.
Phil
My whole life is accountability partners.
Lauren
He positions us everywhere.
Phil
I love that Lauren says us because she knows she's the leader of the accountability crew.
Lauren
I'm one of them. Yeah, I'm the leader of the accountability partners.
Phil
Yeah, no, but actually, it's true. I mean, my business my life is made up. It's a whole mix of business and personal Lauren and I have been best friends for well over a decade. You know, everyone in my life like we work together and live together in some capacity, but I need those accountability partners, otherwise they just don't deliver.
Mark
That's one of the questions I ask my executive coaching clients is, how do you like to be held accountable? And then I say, Well, how would you like me to hold you accountable? And one of them, I just had a session right before this. He said, Could you please email me on Friday, just to check in on my goals that I promised you for next, you know, which are next Tuesday morning. And he said, keep it very particular, like Friday was good, because he still had a few days, if he had kind of been slacking. Right? I have another client who said, no, I don't need to hear from you. I'll see you next Monday at 3pm.
Lauren
Is that client good at saying accountable?
Mark
Yeah. Yeah. Because his challenge is to live life with more curiosity. And he's like the ultimate disciplined person. So that discipline isn't his issue.
Phil
Much of what you've described for me is reminding me why I invest the time that I do in, in creating content. I mean, I love the idea of other people consuming and learning from what we share. But even what we're doing right now is creating content with you. You talked about how Lauren and I, in order to be good at our jobs, anyone really you need to carve that time to do research. And that's a big part in why we even have a podcast, or why I post YouTube videos. This is my moment to redeem myself, but I am very disciplined with my YouTube videos, I sometimes put some pressure on my editors to have to edit in 48 hours. Oops, sorry, guys. But I don't miss a posting day. Some months, I'm about to enter a month when I'm going to scale back to one video a week instead of two. Because I know, realistically, I can only do one very well. But for me, there's so much in it for me selfishly in a beautiful way that sanction time to research, that sanction time to connect with people, to sharpen my presentation skills that is highly monetizable in our business be at one on one calls or on stage delivering a keynote. And I have no problem with discipline in that front. And so maybe that's one way in our business where we have built that mechanism, I guess that enables us to keep growing.
Mark
Well, going back to your you know, thing about cramming for the exam, there is nothing like the pressure of let's say giving a speech to 1000 people to make sure you have your story straight and your data right. You know, for you, you put something out on YouTube, you're not getting immediate feedback. But if a whole bunch of people over the course of a week or two said that actually wasn't accurate. That would be that would be mortified.
So I'm gonna guess that you do a certain amount of review to be like, okay, did this work? You know, kind of, like, when we were doing my website, like, do all the buttons work? You know, like someone did that you you know, and that was great. So then I click on a really great, it all works. And as the client, I don't really care what you did to make it work. If I go on stage and spout off a whole bunch of data, I imagine someone's googling that to be like, is that really true? And so I need to have my numbers, right, as much as anything, you know. And so I think we all need that pressure. And that's good, because that's what people are paying us for.
Phil
So interesting, you've given us so much, goodness, so many great things to think about. I also feel like you've helped solopreneurs make decisions, I feel like what you've covered is really empowering for people that are in this alone, I feel very grateful that like I rarely have to make a decision on my own, I can just throw it at Lauren's head and make it her problem. Just kidding. But we get the privilege of having dialogue around important decisions that we make together. But not everyone has that. And I feel like you've demonstrated the importance of having an accountability partner, potentially paying a consultant or a strategist or someone to play that role is hugely important.
But even just breaking down the process of making good decisions for an individual, I think it's just awesome what you've given us.
Mark
Thank you, I enjoy it. And part of it is because I had to be making those choices. This whole past year, and a bit for me has been making these choices. So I used to do it for someone else, and now I'm doing it for myself. It's great. And what's been actually really fun is to say, wow, that stuff I've been saying for the past, you know, number of years, it's actually true. I actually do need to follow my own process that I created 20 years ago, you know, so it's got to do testing, testing things that I've been saying for many years, which has been fun.
Lauren
Can I ask what's been the most challenging and or surprising decision that you've had to make since going out on your own?
Mark
At this stage, I haven't hit the point that I'm about to explain, describe, but I'm at the point where I have clients who are in incredibly different industries. So I have academic institution, I have a museum, I have a car dealership, I have a cafe, a high fashion boutique and I have a restaurant chain. And so the tricky thing for me right now I'm saying yes to everything, because I really want to understand. Oh, and then I have these executive coaching clients.
Lauren
Mark, this is great.
Mark
So the trick is going to be, I think, ultimately, do I want to specialize in just this? Or just that, you know, do I want to become known as the person who does a certain industry? And right now, the answer is very much, no, I don't want to become specialized. But I could see going back to those decisions, where I might have, hey, this decision where this client is really in my comfort zone, because I've done this for 20 years, this one would really stretch me, and I'm not sure I could do it as well, but I know I would learn a ton more. And working with this fashion thing right now is, I mean, I'm online, watching runway shows, so I can learn the vocabulary of fashion, because I'm gonna be speaking to these executives or I speak to these executives, I don't want to say the wrong thing. Yeah. I hope they're not listening to this right now.
Phil
No, they're good. They're listening. And they appreciate the work you're doing upfront that inspires all of us.
Mark
And I'm calling people who are into passion and asking them, you know, what does this brand like compared to that brand. And it's really, like, it's making my head bigger, in a good way, like I'm producing a lot more brain cells, because I'm out of my comfort zone. So who knows, three years from now, maybe I'll be the high fashion consultant guy.
Phil
Well, you've got a perfect brand for it. I might just bear just do a little plug for us. Yeah, you have a very fashionable, beautiful brand. This is your chance now in your new business to self promote yourself. This is your moment, my friend, where can people find you online to get more amazingness?
Mark
Where to find my incredibly awesome website is maynardconsulting.net And I'm also I've done a little brand extension, I don't know you should check it out on LinkedIn. I've used this beautiful brand that you've created, and I've started to create content for LinkedIn only a few weeks ago, and I've gotten already a lot of direct messages and things about, you know, your logo, I love your color. The colors are great, because I know we spent a lot of time about the colors.
Phil
We did. But they're a signature component of your brand. I think it's one of the most a really interesting, daring, exciting color pallets out there.
Mark
And it's very me and that's the the single biggest compliment I get is that your content and your website is very you. So I think that that's pretty fitting.
Lauren
That's our goal.
Phil
Music to our ears.
Mark
You interrogated me you interrogated me for a month. And so I appreciate that.
Phil
That is awesome. Well, we're gonna link to your website in our show notes of this episode. You really delivered we came into this episode, Lauren and I thinking there's so many things want to talk to him about. We can sum it all up with making good business decisions. And certainly you've helped us navigate this and we really appreciate you hanging out with us on Brand Therapy.
Mark
Thank you so much. That therapy session has been incredibly rewarding for me.
So enlightening, thank you so much Mark for being on the podcast. I hope everyone listening you go check out his brand new beautiful website, maynardconsulting.net we're super proud of this brand. I love the colors. And I'm very kind of now just so happy that things are going so well Mark and listener I bet you got a ton of value from this episode. That is our hope if you enjoyed this episode, give us a review five star five star that helps other people discover this podcast so we work really hard to create and you know how it works. We'll be back again next week with a brand new episode. We'll see you then we look forward to it. Thanks for hanging out with us right here on Brand Therapy. See you next time.
