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Curious about the relevance of human-crafted content amidst the growing excitement around artificial intelligence? 🤖 Today, we're diving deep into what sets authentic human-crafted stories apart and why they resonate more with digital audiences. Joining me is Neal Schaffer, a seasoned expert in digital marketing and social media strategy. Neal sheds light on why human-created content builds trust in ways AI can't replicate.

Phil

Interesting how, even with AI, which is all the buzz, human created content still reigns supreme. So that's what we're going to talk about today. We're going to try to understand the unique qualities that make authentic human crafted stories, more compelling digital audiences. I think as we move forward, this is going to be the case even more so.

My guest today, Neal Schaffer, is a seasoned authority on digital marketing, social media strategy. He's an author. He sheds light on this topic in today's conversation. He argues for the enduring superiority of content created by humans, building trust with audiences in ways that AI can not replicate. So I hope you enjoy this conversation with Neal, I certainly did. Let's hop into it right now.

And I'm recording on my end. And I hear you and you have coffee it looks like. So, or is it tea? What are you drinking?

Neal

Oh, I am drinking coffee with coconut milk powder and Stevia. That's my magic combination.

phil

I thought for a second, I was like, wonder if he's drinking tea because, and usually I have tea when I'm doing podcast interviews, and I feel like you're going to like this where this story is going, but I have a specific Starbucks mug that I use that I got in Kyoto that I, I will not, no one in this house is allowed to put coffee in that mug.

It is green tea only. I get very mad if someone misuses my Kyoto green tea mug, but you have, you can speak Japanese, can't you? Yeah, you know, it's funny, my mug story is I got to speak at Twitter headquarters many years ago and you, you know, they toured me around and we went into the cafeteria and everything and they have these wonderful Twitter mug.

They're like huge, you know, blue with the white bird icon and I took one, man. I could not resist and that is, that is my prized treasure.

phil

Do you know, I think I also stole something from Twitter. I went there twice.

Neal

Okay, you know what I'm talking about, right?

phil

I know, I, to a scary degree.

Neal

Blue on the outside and like gray on the inside.

phil

It's like 100%. Yeah, I'm whispering. So it's like no one can hear us. But even though we're recording a podcast episode. I took a mug, Neal. We are the same. I self published a book, 2015 ish, I'm estimating. California Women's Conference. Wrote a book in three months called Shut Up and Tweet. I have it around here somewhere.

neal

I didn't even know that. And I usually follow, yeah, I usually follow books about, like, social media, so.

phil

You might have seen it, but it's been a long time, it's been a long time, but I brought the book and did a whole little thing at Twitter, and I also took a mug. You and I are always learning new tidbits about each other.

When I met you in real life, it was many years after I had already known about you online, you and I were sitting side by side at the Adobe Express Ambassador Meetup, and I was like, holy shit, it's Neal Schafer right beside me. Literally right beside me, this guy that I've been following on Twitter, this guy that is Literally OG Digital Marketing.

I said that to Kim Garst a few weeks ago when we recorded for this podcast. So I told Kim, I said, listen, you're one of my friends along with Neal, like you guys are OG. I learned from your blog posts as I set up my business when I was 22, figuring out, is this what I wanna do for a living? I'm not calling you old, by the way.

It's a compliment. But you guys are O. G.

NEAL

O. G. can mean a lot of things, right? Omnipresence? Well, you know.

phil

Oh, I love it. I love it.

neal

Well, that's awesome, man. Thank you. I appreciate that. It's funny because I haven't been getting out to as many conferences as I used to because I'm waiting for my new book as you're waiting for your new book, so.

But as I start getting out there, I, I hear similar things from people and I had no idea like these random blog posts a decade ago had this impact on people. So, so thank you. That's heartening to hear.

phil

Well you continue to pump out blog posts, that's just been a part of something that you do, isn't it? What is the role that blogging plays and has played for so long in your business?

neal

Blogging was always part of what I did and I should say that I started a blog because I was in, long story, lived in Japan, 15 years, had a baby girl, came back and was in transition for the first time in the United States, even though I was already in my career.

And all of my network, my connections were in Asia. I grew up in Southern California. All my friends went to Berkeley. They're all in the Northern, you know, Northern California area. I was in this really niche high tech industry that I knew no one in the United States in. And that's where I went really hard into LinkedIn.

So it was actually, I went really hard, I want to say starting January, February 2008. Talking about OG. And then in July of 2008, I, in that six months, I just spent like an hour or two every day on LinkedIn. LinkedIn used to have like LinkedIn answers, LinkedIn groups was obviously more, you know, had more going on.

The feed, it wasn't so much, but they had all these things going on and I was like answering questions and LinkedIn answers and participating in groups. So when I found my job in July of 2008, I launched my first blog. And that was on the WordPress app because LinkedIn used to always have an app directory.

So I literally went in the WordPress app in LinkedIn and I started a WordPress.com blog. And I decided that I wanted to keep networking because that would, you know, your network is your net worth. And I knew that it would continue to sustain me both in my future job and wherever I went in life. So, I started this blog just, you know, I cannot spend time in LinkedIn now, but I can still reach people virtually by sharing my content and sharing everything I know. And through that, continue to network virtual 24/7. And that blog turned into a book in 2009, Windmill Networking, Understanding Leveraging and Maximizing LinkedIn. And then through that book, I had, you know, companies reach out, you know, got speaking opportunities and they got consulting opportunities. In January, 2010 I launched my consultancy company. And I want to say, Phil, you know, we, we, we have this nomenclature of the creator economy. We are the original creators. The original creator economy was text based, right? It was blogs, it was books, and I want to remind people that because I don't, you know, I think that we've redefined this term, but creativity and, and being a creator covers a lot of different mediums.

You may not, you may not want to be shown on video, but if you can write books, baby, there's a lot you can do. So just want to throw that out there. Just something I've thought about recently. But so the blog is how I started my whole business. And I would say that books propel me further than blogs because everybody blogs and companies like HubSpot blog a hell of a lot.

Like back then there weren't as many companies blogging. So I think it was easier to stick out. But it's still, you know, content's the center of everything. It's how you get discovered. It's what you share on social media. It is what you put in your email newsletters. You then find ways to repurpose it. So I wrote a book on influencer marketing, The Age of Influence. And now I teach an influencer marketing course at UCLA extension. My first course for this semester is tonight. Another reason why I'm a little stressed today. And now I can repurpose that book content into the course or I created a course on personal branding and how to become an influencer, which now I can repurpose into a book.

So everything that you do as a creator or as an entrepreneur, even when I talk with small business owners about my fractional CMO service, content is just central. It's the key. it checks all the boxes of what you need. In fact, I'm going to be interviewing Robert Rose, who's, you know, along with Joe Polizzi, the godfather of content marketing on my own podcast in a few weeks, and the topic is, you know, it's not content marketing now, it's just modern marketing. It's just the way you market today if you want to be successful. And that content, you know, there's anything from TikToks to blog posts to Instagram carousels and LinkedIn posts. But you know, content is that central. So I'm really glad that I started with that blog, with content being central.

Obviously, over time, you do more video, you do more image. But yeah, content comes in a lot of formats. But every single one of my clients, and if you, I would be afraid if I'm a creator, and I'm just focused just 100 percent on TikTok or 100 percent on YouTube, and I don't have my own website and or my own blog, you know, when I vet people, like, do you have a website?

And you see these people that buy fake followers, or they buy a PLR course that's heavily branded in Canva and it looks great. And then you go to their website and there's nothing. So I do think that that content also gives you a voice and you get to share your perspective. And I think it really helps potential customers, potential collaborators, really understand who you are.

phil

It also gives you the excuse though, to like, it almost gives you a deadline that you create for yourself. That's what I was just thinking about, because this is what content does for me. like even making videos, which is what I started doing right before the pandemic consistently, once a week posting a YouTube video.

I quickly realized the reason that it fulfilled me was that I was able to put in my busy calendar time to learn about something and then share what I learned. That's just, you know, or share something I already know and learn and teach on a stage or you know, in some other format and a client call. And so by creating content at almost it, like it paves the way to think it paves the way to learn, it paves the way it legitimizes, which is hard to do.

It's hard to spend time on your own brand and business when you've got clients paying you and demanding you and showing intro, right? Like it's hard. And I think you've been doing this for so long. You learned that a lot sooner than I did in text format and blogs.

phil

That was a great, a great way of looking at content creation. So my blog posts are R& D. I will do a lot of research. Like what are the top 15 tools for like text to voice AI? I don't know, but I want to learn. And I think it's important. I think my clients want to know.

phil

I see you doing that and I love it. I find it inspiring you. If you knew how many email newsletters you've sent that I have left in my inbox flagged with a little yellow label, which means Phil, it means it's for my brand or for my research right now, heavy into AI, which is where we're going next. But like you doing, this is a perfect example. You investing in that research to be able to learn something that you can then share that becomes something I learn and share. And what that does, this is a good lesson for our listener, what that does is it puts you on a pedestal for me.

And I'm not even exaggerating, but like, I can tell you specific things I've learned from you that you've shared that you might not even realize because you're in it, right?You're like, okay, the next blog post is going to be about this thing I want to learn. Like, you know, I learned those things from you and I remember learning those things from you. And the, the dynamic here is similar to if I was sitting in the audience at a conference, social media marketing world, and I don't know who you are, but you rocked the stage for 45 minutes, and I go, oh my god, I just learned so much, I have so much respect for that person.

This is really the digital version of that, and how cool is that?

neal

Yeah, thank you. Those words are very kind. I wanted to throw out one more thing. If the blog is R&D for research, my podcast, now I feel we're sort of like riffing, like we're in a studio you know, I'm a drummer, maybe you're a bass player, I don't know, or a guitarist, but the podcast is riffing on ideas.

It's, that's like the R& D of my brain of these, you know, I was developing new chapters for my book through my podcast. Like I had all the ideas and the stories, but I needed a way to piece them together and the podcast gives me the excuse to really develop and flesh out the content in my mind and I share that as well.

So, um, video, you know, ends up being repurposing of those other two things for me, which is why I don't do as much of it as I do the podcast and the blog, but those are really, really consistent for me. And I think everyone listening, I like to quote, you know, Marie Kondo, if it doesn't spark joy, don't do it.

And I use that like every day in my career in my life. If it doesn't spark joy, you know, pick the medium that works for you, the cadence that works for you. But consistency is important, not just for algorithms, but for people like yourself, right? Like if I don't keep showing up in your inbox, you know, 12 months from now, you're going to be yellow tagging someone else's blog posts.

Uh, it's just the reality that we live in.

phil

And you've done a really good job. I almost feel like we need a diagram for this. Maybe I'll make one. You've done a really good job of assigning value to your content creation so that it becomes sustainable. So you were able to right now, just tell me very specifically the purpose that your podcast serves. It's almost like the glue between the other elements that you're creating. It's those, it's the kind of that in between area that you're able to seal you know, through ideas and through conversations with other people.

That means that you're excited to record a podcast. You look forward to episodes, you look forward to new conversations, which is beneficial for so many reasons, but that gives it purpose. I feel like sometimes people go, oh my gosh, I need a podcast because I see other people have one, but then I'm just creating silo content over here and then I'm trying to create different types of content on Instagram. And then I'm trying to blog and then the day is over and I haven't done any actual work, right?

neal

Yeah. And on that note, I mean, I started my podcast back in January, 2013. And I started it for that reason. It was content marketing. It's like, Oh, I need a podcast now. Right. And I realized it was on and off for a few years. And then it was 2019, I was preparing to publish the age of influence and one of my clients locally, I was working with a Gen Z marketer and we were talking about like, hey Neal, what do you listen to on the drive in like 30 minute drive?

I'm like, oh, you know, I'm on Spotify listening to music. And she goes, Oh, I'm on Spotify. Listen to podcasts. I'm like, really? Like you listen to pod and, and that like started this journey. Like, wow, I had never consumed other podcasts. My own podcast really sucks. Right. And that's what you really need to consume the content.

It's like, Well, I don't get TikTok. Well, you know, just spend 15 minutes a day on TikTok. Like stuff that you like and the algorithm. So it's the same thing. And after I started consuming the content, which I do, you know, regularly now, it's like, oh, now I know what I'm doing right, now I know what I should be doing.

So that's another. Part of it is, if you're just doing it for the quote unquote content marketing and it doesn't spark joy, it's going to seem like work. It's going to be last priority and it's never going to get done. And if that's the case, do something different.

phil

I think I said this and I got sidetracked earlier, but we're bringing it back around. That happens to me all the time. I was going to say to you, it's 2024. What are you excited about this year in your world, in marketing, digital marketing, AI? Like let's go there. What are the things that you are excited about right now?

neal

Well, I'm excited. I'm sure you are as well, as you continue working on your book.

And by the way, I saw the pre order up on Amazon. So congratulations.

phil

Thank you. It's funny because major publishers like do it like 10 months in advance and I'm self publishing and mine's going to go up like two weeks in advance. But anyway, that's a lot. So you won't see mine up.

phil

There's pros and cons to both. There's pros and cons to both.

neal

I'll probably be publishing before you. No, but that, that's awesome though. I mean, that obviously drives, that brings me the greatest joy is that you know, to me, a book, you have these individual blog posts, but you know, Phil, it's funny. I think a lot of what we do, it comes down to the packaging, right?

You can have the best YouTube video, but if you have a shitty thumbnail, pardon my French, it's never going to get seen and the algorithm is going to hate it. I mean, you still might get lucky, but it's how we package these things, the content that becomes so important. And so for me, the book, just becomes the ultimate that you're really putting your balls out there, so to speak, and you're putting together something that has immense value that you can't find in a blog post, right?

You can't find in a YouTube video. You might be able to go through a bunch of them and try to piece it together. So for me, you know, Phil, this book journey for me, and obviously leaning even heavier into blogging really came as a response to COVID. And all these companies reaching out to me for help with influencer marketing when they didn't have their, their digital marketing house in order.

It's like, wait a minute, you want to engage in influencers, but you only have like 50 followers on Instagram and you haven't posted in six months. What, you know, it doesn't add up. And I realized that not only are the old digital marketing things like SEO and email really sexy and really underutilized, undervalued.

But I also realized there's an order of things. And that's what I'm really excited to sort of introduce in this book. You know, we talk about like Maslow's hierarchy of needs, but I think when it comes to marketing that there are key things, like for instance, like today, a fractional CMO client working on his strategy basically, it's a pre sales call. He's like, you know what, Neal? I think I need help like on the positioning and the messaging. And it's like, you know what? I'm used to working with companies that already have that core, right? And are ready to move forward, but they don't know how. So even before like everything I talk about in my book, and obviously you work in that field and in the branding and everything, there's this core that you need before you do anything else, right? That I think you understand.

phil

Yeah.

neal

So I think for me, you know, the book and hopefully breathing new life into this very, very old school digital marketing, that's what excites me because I think opportunity is there for everybody. I think that especially, you know, you're targeting small business entrepreneurs in your book and same with me, just very few really get it, very few really do it well. Doesn't have to cost a lot of money. Doesn't even have to require a lot of effort. Obviously, AI is there, we'll talk about it as a collaborator, as a co conspirator, so to speak. But at the end of the day, AI doesn't sell you. You still, it still comes down to you being able to express yourself, you having a great product, you'd be able to have a great brand for your product, you'd be able to have authentic conversations with people, build up communities like our wonderful Adobe Express community.

It all comes down to the people aspect. And I think, you know, the more I leverage AI, the more I realize that the person is more important than ever. And in a, in a field where we're going to see a lot more AI content, it's the person, you know, I like to say maybe AI on the inside, but always human on the outside, uh, more human than anyone else on the outside.

I think that's going to be the secret. So I'm excited because AI brings, you know, like with any other big social network like threads, oh, we need to go all in on threads or whenever there's something new come up, I see a lot of different responses in the market. And what excites me is just trying to find truth and best practices and being able to share that.

phil

I like your approach. It's like sustainable excitement. So you're only going to get really excited about something that you know, from being an OG, what is actually going to stick. So you're probably not that excited about threads. I mean, threads, I guess, is kind of exciting, although I'm not fully into it yet. I'm like, I don't need another thing on my plate, but I do, I do open it and enjoy it. You're excited about what you know is worth investing time and energy into because it will stick. That's like the impression I'm getting.

neal

When I was in college and I was working on a thesis and I did my foreign, uh, my junior abroad in Beijing, China, I was there during the Tiananmen demonstrations, which sort of ages me, but you know, I wanted to do my, my senior thesis, return back, do my senior thesis on like the student demonstrations.

And my dad may he rest in peace said, don't you think you need a little bit of historical perspective in order to be able to place it in its historical context. And so it's also like me looking back at digital marketing. And I remember when Google plus came out and I remember people writing blog posts, I've been on Google plus straight for the last 48 hours. I've followed up circled what's next. And it's like, well, that's the whole idea. There, there is no next. It's, it's not about the tactical. Right. Um, and even, you know, Phil, as, as we get ready to publish books, like I heard someone go, oh, I'm analyzing the Amazon mover and shakers index and trying to figure out how to, you know, you know, how to hack it.

It's like, just write a really good book that people talk about is the best way to really get found there. So, so I, as I age, I just focus less on those technical hacks.

phil

Yeah. The gimmicks almost.

neal

Yeah. The gimmicks. It focus more on the content and the people. If my people are all on threads, I'll spend more time there. But until then, there's still people on X, you know, or I like to call it Twitter still.

phil

Yeah, me too.

neal

There's a ton of people on Facebook, even though people have sort of poo pooed. It's still, so I go where the people are. I follow the data and you are never too late. If you decide you want to join Threads, you know, January 1st, 2025, you will not be too late to join it, right? There's always an early starting advantage for some people, but those people already have big audiences and other platforms that they bring over, generally speaking, right?

phil

Which goes back to what you said earlier, which is don't invest in your time into one social media platform, you know, build your base. And I think give some thought and purpose to the, the platforms where you show up so it fits together like a puzzle, which I think you've illustrated. You've done that very successfully with your own content strategy.

neal

You know, it really started professionally because I wrote my first two books on LinkedIn, but after I finished my first one, it's unrealistic to expect that my future clients will just need LinkedIn.

phil

Right.

neal

I mean, Twitter is still very viable for B2B, you know, second priority LinkedIn. Obviously Facebook, we've seen more B2B and that's when I realized that I don't want to be, I don't want to niche down into just LinkedIn to be bored AF. But it's also unrealistic because, you know, businesses need more than just that.

And that's why I've continued. I went from LinkedIn to social media marketing, influencer marketing. Now this next book covers all our digital marketing. Because that's the reality is, is you're more of like a general doctor rather than a proctologist, right? I don't want to be the proctologist. Some people love being the proctologist. They want to discover, you know, they want to subscribe to LinkedIn's blog and, and discover new hacks and, you know, hang out with others. And that to me just is really escaped from the reality of business. So, so it's that same feeling that I need to be where my people are, where there's opportunity and people are everywhere.

And it's, it's just the reality.

phil

One of the emails that I have saved in my inbox that I told you that has a little yellow sticky note on it, you know, in Google mail, you can label your emails. I do that obsessively. I color, yeah, orange means like two minutes or less deal with this today. Yellow means this is a Phil thing. Come back to it when you have time. One of my fill labeled emails from you. It has this headline. And we touched on a second ago, so we're coming back around to this, you said, human content ranks higher than AI content. And I didn't even have to open the email to go that I need to read and I need to think about that.

And I need to ask him about that because I actually want a quote from you or your thoughts for the book on that. I meant, well, you know, yesterday finished a rebrand, an update to my visual brand that more aligns with my goals. That's how I operate. I need a visual brand that looks the part. Good thing I'm in the right industry.

But I feel strongly that like analog and handwritten and, and like, you know, taking time away from a computer to think and a journal and to sketch. I'm holding a physical pen, a real life pen in my hand right now, waving around like a wand as I talked to you, I got them all, my friend, me too. Look, look, I got a digital pen,

I got a highlighter, I got a whole you too! So I really feel like you people have said, like, yeah, are you worried about AI is going to be able to do your job? I'm like, no, because I'm still going to be a trustworthy service provider that is human, that people can trust, you know?

Yeah. I mean, sure. AI can do things that I can do. It can do things that you can do, but I think we're going to crave and appreciate. Um, human. And I just love that you brought this back to, uh, content. Can you speak more about this statement, this idea, human content ranks higher than AI content? Such an important reminder.

neal

So we can look at this a few different ways, and I'll go through each of the mediums.

Like audio book, audio book. So I'm, I'm a big fan of, I listened to some podcasts about self publishing because that's what I'm about to do for the first time in more than a decade. So, and one of them was like, oh, there's a really great service. They'll take your book and feed it with a really realistic AI voice. And you can create an audio book without narrating, without having to hire a narrator for like a hundred bucks, which sounds really attractive. And you know, they interviewed the CEO and this is this, we've been working on this technology and have all these people. But when I listened to it, it was clear that it was still AI. Right. Yeah. Okay. Audio. Immediately it's like, no, not going to work.

Visually, I was on a presentation yesterday. Someone trying to sell a course on creating courses, very meta. And the PowerPoint imagery that he was using, it was clearly all AI generated images.

phil

Wait, describe what that means to you. What does that mean to you? AI generated?

neal

It's not real. It's sci fi, right?

phil

Sci fi. Yeah. If I'm a sci fi lover, fantasy lover, awesome, right. But in a business context, it did not hit the mark. Even I love, as you do Adobe Express, and I play around with generative AI, you know, photo fill, but it's really hard for me to get the same sorts of results that when you see people at Adobe Max talking and they got the, and I'm sure you're much better at it than I am. It takes a lot of work to get that, those sort of results where it looks more human, it looks more real.

So, even visually, you know, and then you get the avatar videos, you get the AI generated stock videos, it's very clear that it's just, it's not real, right?

The text is the interesting one. And as I have, I taught myself all this, Phil, I never took a marketing class in college, even though I'm, I'm teaching it now, which is really bizarre. But I'm self taught, and I'm really curious, and I research a lot, and I learn by doing and collecting the data and analyzing it and by far, I mean, think put yourself in Google shoes, right? Google has said AI content's fine. Now, I use AI content on my blogs, but where I use it is in the FAQs at the very bottom. And that's more of like an SEO hack and I, and I'll tell you that for short form content like Amazon, you know, ads or Amazon bullet points, or Google ads for short form content, it's really hard to tell the difference, right?

Um, whether it's AI, in fact, Google ads has always, has always AI generated things based on you put in these, these keyword phrases and then it puts them together in an ad. But when it comes to long form text that you're trying to rank for in Google, getting back to your question about search engines, the biggest thing that Google talks about is helpful content. And you could potentially using AI generate helpful content, if you can't differentiate it and if it's not engaging, then people don't stick around for long. Now, if it's a technical manual, it's one thing, but if you're reporting on different things, I mean, it really depends on the blog content, obviously, it's the more you engage with the reader, the longer they stay on your site, the better signals that Google sees. And if it's, you know, AI in, AI out, the chances of you getting those same signals are going to be worse because, you know, people love stories. People love emotion. It's how they get attached to things.

And this is something that AI can't do. And I know that there are things like brand voice that could try to replicate you. And I know they're trying to develop ways of bringing in stories from your own blog, but it's just not the same. That's why it's AI on the inside and human on the outside is that you have to be able to engage the user if you want to keep them on your site. But the approach that I've seen with small businesses, just leveraging AI, to crank out blog post after blog post is, it's just, it's not engaging. So yes, they might temporarily rank because it's new content and it checks some boxes in terms of keywords, but at the end of the day, I don't think it's going to rank high over a long period of time for those reasons.

And then, you know, Phil, I talked about the ability to repurpose this content, right? So when you have AI generated blog content, it's really hard to create a reel out of that content. It's really hard to write a book or create a YouTube video. Whereas if you started with the human and the storytelling, and I'm a big fan of repurposing blog content into things like reels or, or into videos, you have a lot of different elements to play with that.

It just becomes a lot more easier and human. And obviously with, with social media, even more so. The more human you are, the more authentic you are, the more engagement you're going to get and the better you're going to perform. So that's why I think at the end of the day, there are use case scenarios. I have experimented using AI to flesh out outlines to make sure that I'm checking all the boxes I need to when talking about a topic, but I will still do my own research into top performing blog posts.

What are they talking about? Am I missing something? What is my perspective? So I think it all comes down at the end of the day, the human perspective of managing the AI and deciding where, when, and how you want to use it. But always thinking of the reader. I think in social media now, we understand the more engagement we get, the better we perform the algorithm.

Google is the same thing. And I think a lot of people are forgetting that when they're thinking of just using AI to generate tech.

So that's what, that's what that means.

phil

I love it. Everything you said is on point. And I'm interested now in this next, this next mile of AI and people's ability to create their own GPT using their own content and brand voice.

I think we're exiting mile one, which is the excitement around the efficiency that something can write something with keywords, but it, it reads and sounds dead. Cause there's no, to your point, there's no storytelling, there's no emotion and that's what keeps people attached. And sure, you might have a blog post with all the keywords, but there's no, there's nothing interesting in it.

And you have to take the time to interweave your story and your experience and your brand voice. Like sometimes I say things out loud. I have a unique brand voice, you know, and I, it is my digital responsibility in 2024 to make sure my content that I published sounds like me and that's still kind of time consuming and it should be because I'm putting in those extra flavors to make sure it, it sounds like me, you know, people are skipping that. That's not working.

neal

Yeah. I've played around. I mean, Jasper is one of those leading AI tools that were very early on with this concept of a brand voice, like a mini GPT, but now like at the last sentence of every paragraph asks a question. It's like, no, this, you know, it's, It's not there yet. I don't think it ever will be there, in all honesty.

Just like, you know, uh, you emailed me when I said I was going to be a little late today. Said, you know, we don't stress on Thursdays. Now, what AI email writer is going to be able to, is going to be able to say that, you know? And when AI does say something, like at a recent conference I was at, PodFest actually, just last month in Orlando, everybody was joking how ChatGPT seems to spit out these same words, these same adjectives.

phil

Unleash your potential.

neal

Exactly. So people can read through it now. And I think that's what's going to happen is that people can read through, just like I was talking about the visuals being AI generated. I think people are going to be able to read through it like high school teachers and, and college admissions boards. And we're going to get attuned to it pretty quickly. And I think it's just going to become, commodity, low quality, not taken seriously, in the long form context and in the visual context.

phil

I love this. I could talk to you for 18 hours straight, is the truth. But you're always thinking, and I just love how you synthesize what you're thinking about and I always appreciate it. I always get so inspired and I get so many ideas from conversations with you.

neal

Thank you. And we never have enough time to talk while we meet.

phil

We never have enough time, but we make time when we make content out of it. And at the end of the day, that's the best thing.

Actually, that's another point I often talk about is that content creation should be selfish. I'm glad that we're creating something that a listener is going to find useful, but I don't really care because for me, I get so much value from this time that too busy people might not otherwise take time to catch up, although we should, we will, but creating content out of it makes it real and makes it, you know, makes it something we can put in our calendars and it's just, it's a funny thing.

neal

And that's why half of my podcast episodes are interviews and I interview to learn in the network, right? Like doing this. So I agree a hundred percent.

phil

Well, I have learned from you. We have learned from you. Maybe just last question or thought is plant a little seed for our listener on what they should do or what they should be thinking about this year, 2024.

neal

You know, we all focus on different aspects of marketing, you know, you and me, but, you know, I break it down to, you know, discoverability. Obviously getting new clients, but I think more importantly, keeping new clients. One of, I have this, you know, paid mastermind and one of my students successfully launched a Kickstarter and now she's creating this product and she's like, I have all these people that they, they're like, they're waiting for the next shipment. Right. And they're like, Oh, when can I order the next batch? And she hasn't, she hasn't caught up with production. I'm like, you need to treat those people like royalty. And we talk about brand ambassadors like, you know, Adobe Express, but you, those are your VIP customers.

Those 10, 15, 20 people are the ones that are going to carry you to stardom. Not only are they going to support you no matter what, but if any of them are on social media talking about you, I mean, that is gold. So I think it's really tapping into the people. So it's, it's tapping into the discoverability aspects, but at the end of the day, when it gets down to the lead or the customer or the past customer, it's really tapping into relationships.

And just going overboard to appreciate people, appreciate people that support you, appreciate people that are around you. And I think it's something that some companies get, but most don't, right? And it's funny, Phil, in my book, I include a case study and I got approval from Adobe PR about Adobe Express, because I think every company should have a brand ambassador program, even if you're a small business.

You can't fly 200 people into LA every year, but, but it's that concept, right? And when I was looking for information, like what are ambassadors saying about it? I actually found one of your podcast episodes and I actually included some of the transcripts. Hopefully that, that makes the final edit.

phil

Oh, I love that.

neal

But it's that, it's not just when you appreciate your customer, it's not just, oh, they're going to give me more sales, it's like, well, I'm thinking of inventing a new flavor. And I'm trying to think between chocolate sea salt, caramel butter, and butterscotch, what would you buy? Right? And just, I know talking to the Adobe folks, they've gotten so much value, not just the amplification, but the product ideas, the user interface ideas, they have a test base of people that are happily, you know, hacking away at their latest beta.

It's just such a natural extension of your business, that, that is a component that really excites me. I can't wait to obviously publish my book and be able to educate more people about that. But yeah, I think as more people lean into AI, I lean in more to people. And that to me is the ultimate differentiator.

That's the blue ocean today. Once you get AI on the inside, I'm not saying I hate AI, I'm not afraid of AI, it's the historical perspective that you can use AI to do a lot of things, but do you really need to publish 10 blog posts a day, right? There's an extent to which you can use it, right? That makes sense as well.

And it's not going to save you. It's not going to deliver those relationships. So yeah, I lean heavier, heavier into people in 2024. And I think when everybody's zigzag, I still get more traffic from Twitter and Pinterest than I do from LinkedIn and Facebook, right? Always find where nobody is, where it makes sense for you to be and, and go deep. That strategy has worked for me so far.

phil

Super inspiring. Where do you want us to go next? Website, social media, where should we go?

neal

Well, I'm Neal Schaffer. That's the real Neal, N E A L, S C H A F F E R. So, nealschaffer.com, Neal Schaffer on social. I also have my own podcast, Your Digital Marketing Coach, which is a pretty unbranded name, but it's sort of what I do.

I, I like to, you know, help people, help businesses with everything digital. Those are two places. And yeah, I'm hoping my new book will be out in May, still working through it. But yeah, make sure you sign up nealschaffer.com/newsletter. If you're interested and want to become part of my launch team for that.

phil

A hundred percent. We're going to link to that in the show notes. We just so appreciate you hanging out with us on Brand Therapy. You're just a wealth of knowledge and a great guy. Thank you. Thank you, Neal.

neal

Dude, it's my honor, pleasure, Phil. It's hard to beat you in terms of greatness. So I'm just honored to be here. I can't wait for your book as well. Because you know, branding expert look at AI. It's a combination of two worlds that you don't think match, but I'm sure you're not only gonna help a lot of people with that, but help a lot of businesses. So I can't wait myself.

phil

Thank you.