217. How are artists and content creators adapting to the rise of AI tools? (f. Anna McNaught)
Curious about the intersection of AI and art in the digital landscape and its impact on creatives globally? 🤔 Join us as we explore these dynamic intersections with Anna McNaught, a respected figure who represents brands like Adobe on international stages. Today, Anna shares how AI not only serves as a tool but also acts as a collaborator in the creative process. Dive into our discussion to discover Anna’s unique insights into the innovative worlds of art and AI.
Episode transcription
Phil
Fascinated by how AI is blending with art in this ever changing digital landscape?
Or are you pondering the role of AI tools for your business, or how it's impacting creatives around the world?
Today's guest, Anna McNaught, is entrusted by brands like Adobe to demonstrate this combo of worlds on stages across the globe, presenting to audiences in the hundreds, And the thousands and sometimes hundreds of thousands.
Anna's here to share how AI serves not just as a tool, but as a collaborator in the creative process. And I think you're going to like her perspective. So let's jump into it. The worlds of art and AI innovation.
Anna McNaught, where do we even begin? Like, literally, where do we actually even begin?
Anna
I don't know. I'm like, wow, we've known each other for so long. We've been through so many walks of life together, and we just happen to meet by coincidence, and now our lives are so intertwined with Adobe. Like, how weird is that?
Phil
So, everyone who's even remotely connected to my Adobe world knows that that not only are we like, such good friends, but I, I brag about it. I'm like, I've known her for a decade. I like, I'm like the proud kid in kindergarten that's like, that's my friend. And she's been my friend longer than she's been your friend.
It's just, I'm sorry. And then it was even worse at Max when you're on the big stage in front of literally hundreds of thousands of people in an auditorium and streaming online, literally millions. I was like, that's my friend. In fact, I texted you. It was literally three minutes before you came out on stage and you replied.
I was like, I was like, you're cheerleader number one. I'm sure there was a handful of them, but I considered myself number one. I was like, Anna, you're going to be great. I don't think, and then you texted back, you're like, thank you. I was like, oh my God, put your phone away. Get ready.
Anna
I know, I'm like sitting back there like, hee, hee, hee, hee.
Phil
Get ready for this thing that you've been rehearsing for, for how many months? People have no idea.
Anna
Three months.
phil
And how often in that three months?
Anna
So it was every other week in person and then the off weeks were twice a week, like virtually. So yeah, we must have rehearsed over 150 times.
phil
For and how many minute demo that's live?
Anna
For a eight minute demo. And so everybody always says like oh, yeah, everyone looks so natural up on stage. Like can I see your script or can do you guys have a teleprompter or you're recording?
No, everything is live and happening right then and there is no script. No teleprompter. It's just Like months of rehearsal, months of practice, and then also the amazing Jason Levine, the OG, training us and helping us get into like demo mode.
phil
I will be conscious for the listener's sake that I'll try not to fall into too many like inside jokes or inside terms even because our whirlwind Adobe world is, it's kind of like that.
But what we're describing here is the opening keynote for Adobe Max. And Anna very incredibly and now famously went up on stage last year and delivered the most killer keynote demo of the new features in Photoshop. What pressure when you literally have the CEO of Adobe 14 feet away from you. All the executive leaders, investors, celebrities, this conference, or at least the opening keynote takes place in the same venue, it's downtown LA, same venue as the Grammys.
Anna
Yeah, isn't it? Yeah, Grammys. So in it was in the Microsoft Theater, which is now Peacock Theater. I think like so many famous things and people and events have happened there. And yeah, I mean, presenting for not only like the CEO, the executives, but then everyone, like all my peers, all my friends, family, everyone was watching and it was just, it was so nerve wracking.
And then like wanting to do well for myself, obviously, but also wanting to impress people for the company and then just impress people in general to be like, look at these cool tools you can use in Photoshop. You know, it was like my responsibility to be like, look at what we're bringing for you.
phil
How do you operate under that kind of pressure? It's something I think so often about having been through it. How do you operate with that amount of pressure?
anna
Yeah, that's a really good question. I think it's a lot of disassociation.
phil
In a healthy way.
anna
Yeah, exactly. In a healthy way. But also, I mean, I think like being prepared was such a huge thing. Having the rehearsals over and over, as much as it was kind of annoying in itself, it really prepared you. Each of us for doing that and help calm the stress down. I think that's something that, you know, I was texting you about like with your demo, it was like, it's a matter of rehearsing. And then it's a matter of also like just even as cliche as it sounds, like one of the things Jason told us was just a lot of deep breathing, like doing the square breath for in for four, hold for four out for four, hold for four.
And that just helps calm you down so, so much. And when you, like, you have to remind yourself, like, you know the material. You're there presenting for a reason. And it's not like you don't understand this. And then, so when you remember that, you're like, oh, yeah, like, I've been using Photoshop since I was, Like, I don't know, 10 years old or so.
And so I'm like, yeah, I understand how this works. I know what I'm doing. And then I think the same advice I said to you too, was, is to be so present with what you're doing, because it's easy to like kind of black out as you're going along. So knowing those things ahead of time helped lessen the stress and the pressure.
And then, aside from that, I, like, I'm such a big advocate for, spending time outside, going for walks. I don't really meditate as much as I should, but doing my own forms of meditation of just, like, walking and sitting in the sun and just reflecting and being with, like, James, of course, and spending time, decompressing.
I think that's huge.
phil
For the record, he's outside right now on the front lawn, trying to get some sun. Good for him.
anna
He's like, I'm stressed. I need some sun.
phil
We need that reminder. I thought to myself yesterday, I don't have enough time to do a full run or a jog around the lake before my next call. I probably have a good 20, 25 minutes.
And I thought, the thought shouldn't go, I don't have enough time for a jog, so I'm not going to go outside. The thought should be, oh great, I have 20 minutes to step outside, even if I'm still in jeans, not in shorts, like I can go outside and just exist. Put my phone away or in my pocket, put my headphones on and just go remember. about the world and the earth, specifically, you know, and that's transformative, I think, and it's something that we sometimes forget to do when there is this kind of fabricated urgency. I'm not saying things aren't urgent and important, they are. And as you climb up the corporate ladder or whatever ladder in your world, you become relied on, you become someone that is in a role that impacts a lot of things and a lot of people, but.
It's all, it's all the same, like, you have to find these grounding elements. People come to me often and ask me for advice on things like this because I am comfortable presenting. I'm confident presenting. I studied broadcast journalism back in the day, and I love my life right now because It took 12 years to get to the point where I am doing every day what is so aligned with the maximum, you know, enjoyment I get out of working, which is teaching and doing media stuff and, you know, in large part, thanks to Adobe, it's not just Adobe, but Adobe is in large part, what takes up the majority of my day.
I really love it. I just love my job and I love my work. But people ask me, how do you handle like pressure? How do I go up and do a confidently? The advice you gave me when we texted before my mini version of Max, I did a post Max webinar for between three or 4, 000 people. When you add up all this, the streams, but it was live, it was eight minutes and I had my script up on my iPad.
And I had rehearsed it, not 150 times, but probably 20 times. And you had said to me, the script is there to guide you, but don't let the script eat you up. Those weren't your words, those are my, I'm paraphrasing. But it was like, you know what you're doing, and even if this script was thrown away, you could still operate.
And I think I realized, even if the script was thrown away, I might even operate better. You can't put this imaginary pressure on yourself, particularly when it comes to scripts. When people stand in front of an audience, And deliver a message that either is yours or something you wrote or something that's been given to you because you know the material so well.
Don't worry about a script. You know what you're doing. I give that advice to people and you gave me that advice and I went, damn, that's really good advice that I needed to hear myself.
anna
It's so true though, because we get so caught up in exactly what we're trying to say when like we know the words, we know the tools that we're showing, and it's almost like when you get more stuck on the script or more stuck on the exact words, then you're like the, the, the versus just being like, oh, what am I looking at?
Oh, okay. This is the remove tool in Photoshop. Super cool because you can remove people. It's so easy. It's awesome. I mean, that, that makes my life better. It makes yours better too. Right. But if I was like the remove tool removes objects, things, people, and everything else, it's really powerful.
phil
The irony in it is that we are hired to bring humanity to technology.
Anna
Yes.
phil
And I think this, even for the listener. You are hired for a project, you are asked to deliver a presentation or a guest lecture, something of that respect, because of your personality, your opinion, your unique flair that creates a great experience for learning or absorbing or moving, whatever it is.
And the human part is just, especially with how quickly technology and AI is developing, I think the human is always going to be craved even more so.
Anna
Absolutely. Yeah, I think that's so important.
phil
Your world has changed so drastically in the last year, year and a half, as a result of AI, not only professionally, like career wise, When we met and knew each other in the early days, you were all in on working as a content creator and an artist and you still do it.
And in fact, your artistry is what got the attention of Adobe to basically woo you into joining them full time. Can you give us the story behind how that happened?
anna
Yeah, so let's take it like all the way all the way back. I want to go back to actually, let's start from when I decided to move to LA and we'll keep that super short, but decided to move to LA from the East coast.
And I was wanting to be a fashion photographer when I first went out there. And then that was not working out. I was not able to find any sort of job. I was like interning and stuff. That was pretty cool to be on some really amazing sets. But then I was like, I want to do some stuff with graphic design.
It was really a time of figuring out who I was trying to find myself. And long story short, I ended up getting a couple different graphic design jobs, but got one working at a dental company as their in house graphic designer doing, and you know the story, Phil, like doing all sorts of brochures and like cute little kids with braces and teeth things.
And I knew far too much about teeth than any human ever needs to know.
phll
Unless you're a dentist.
anna
Yes, unless you're a dentist. And then during that time, while I was there, I had some free time during lunch or in between projects. And that was when I started doing some of my like photo compositing. And I would, we would, um, James and I, my husband and I would go out on the weekends and shoot all these like weird photos in downtown LA and kind of like creepy stuff that was trendy at the time like abandoned hospitals and whatnot. And then I started putting all the images together in photoshop and compositing them and kind of combining my graphic design skills. And just like doing this my free time at work and it just like blew up really quickly. And I had I think I don't know like a thousand followers and then in a month I was up to like 20k. And that was during the times of when it was really easy to grow on Instagram.
And I remember thinking like, okay, well, now I need to monetize this. Now I can turn this into a business. And a lot of people were asking me, and that was when I was like, okay, I'm going to, I'm going to start a business that teaches people how to do photography and then how to grow their Instagram accounts.
Which is how Phil and I met. So then by that point, I was starting to pick up enough side gigs and I started a course and everything. And I was able to quit my full time job and started doing my own thing. And I was going out throughout the week to like WeWork and to different networking places and doing this little Instagram presentation, which is really funny.
It was like my very first demo. Right.
phil
But it was so good. I went into it with no expectations. Me, with like an ego, I thought, oh, well, I'm going to a social media workshop. Why do I need to do that? People ask me all the time about Instagram. And I was like, I went to it and I, it was, I think the only time I've ever done this in my entire life.
But I told you flat out at the end of the presentation, I was like, I need to hire you. I need your help. I need, I'll buy whatever product you have, whatever course you have. I'm in. And.
anna
It was so amazing.
phil
Yeah. I mean, who would have known there are billions of people on this planet and yet now we're back in each other's orbit. We reconnected around 2018. Also, you helped us with some Instagram stuff. We helped you with some brand positioning stuff.
anna
Oh my god, I forgot about that.
phil
I did too. Lauren reminded me. I pulled it up and I was like, oh my god, I completely forgot about this. And so, we've just have, like, crossed paths so many times.
Yeah. And now, more closely than ever, we are. In each other's orbit. It's just fascinating.
anna
Isn't it weird? Like how the world works? Because we would have of course met during this Adobe time now, because we're so like intertwined with things, but to have known each other and have this fun story and like, and I remember at WeWork when you came up to me after and you're like, and you've said all that, like, I want to hire you this is amazing. I was just like, Oh, my God. Oh, my God. What do I do now? Like, this is my first Instagram client. Like, how do I handle this? And being so nervous. And you were just like, you helped me through the whole process and were so chill about it. And I remember, like, we met somewhere. I don't remember if it was, like, at a coffee shop or something.
And I did your whole Instagram audit there. And I did your little, like, consultation. And then, you know, Yeah, I remember that kind of like helped launch me and I remember doing a bunch of different Instagram audits for people and, and consulting people and then managing people's accounts. And, and I remember just being like, holy shit, I'm now, I, this one month I made like my first 15, 000 month.
And I was like, wait, I can do this. Why I can run my own business and I can make this kind of money. And then that was like, I think a month before my wedding or so, and afterwards I was just like, oh my god, okay, now we're really rocking. And then I had a full change of life path in between now coming back to Adobe World, remember?
I convinced James to quit his job and we left LA and we bought a camper van and we traveled for two years in the camper van and decided to kind of like abandon some of the art world. I got rid of all of my instagram clients. I was over it. And then that was kind of during COVID too. And it was just like a really crazy time.
Then we started a travel page and started being like travel influencers for a while. Uh, did really well with that. That was like super good for us. Then, long story short, we decided to settle down a little bit, bought a house, I started doing artwork again, and then Adobe kind of, like, noticed that, noticed some of the videos I was doing, and then they're like, hey, can we actually hire you full time for one of our evangelist roles?
And here we are.
phil
And I started a thought, and then I got sidetracked, which is, you know, typical me, but I was saying that you're so much of your world has changed in the last year, year and a half with AI. Can you talk about that? And like, even as an artist, but now as obviously someone who is hugely influential in delivering news and ideas on how to use products like Adobe for these types of things.
anna
Yeah. I mean, it's definitely been a little bit tough because I've been trying to find the balance of creating art from scratch and then continuing to evolve and use new tools such as AI. And then the AI tools that are incorporated into Photoshop and everything. And it's been like a mixed bag of emotions.
Obviously, I see so many people being upset by it, saying like AI is going to take away our jobs, all that. And while I don't believe that, I still have my own frustrations with it. For example, I can. I guess I'll say the cons first and then I'll go into the pros. I would think some of the cons are that I will have an idea in my head.
I'll type it into Firefly or any other AI kind of text to image generator. And what it will give me is so good. So that's a pro and a con, but so good. And so cool that now I'm totally uninspired because I feel like I can't create anything that's as good as that. So it's kind of like this double edged sword.
But then on the other hand, it will also inspire me so much. And then I'm like, oh my God, I have all these ideas. I can create all this stuff. Like, okay, now I can envision what will this image look like if I had a mushroom house along the river with mountains in the background. And then I can go and create that in Photoshop using pieces from Firefly as I would in like a composite, like as if it was a stock image.
So kind of using it in my own way. But this constant tug and pull between this is really helpful. This is a great tool in my workflow to self doubt of I'm not as good as a computer and I never will be. And therefore I'm frustrated. And then having to like. step back and be like, no, I'm still a human. I still have the passion and the feelings and the emotions and that's what we put into our work that it speaks so many levels higher than AI. And so I think that's always going to trump everything else.
But Again, it's just this tug and pull between self doubt, tools that are amazing, and figuring out where I fit in the whole soup of it all.
phil
Are you optimistic about AI?
Are you concerned about it? And let's just preface this with your opinion isn't tied to anything official at Adobe. You're allowed to be a human with an opinion.
anna
Yes. Yes. Opinions are my own. I mean. Yes and no. If things are kept within, in the, within the reins, I feel like it's going to be super beneficial to everyone and really powerful. I see ways that you use AI in such cool, unique ways of just speeding up your workflow, speeding up your mundane, everyday tasks like email blasts or organizing or things that nobody wants to do, you know, I think that's where AI is really beneficial.
And then when it comes to artwork, I think it's a matter of people continuing to hold companies accountable and then using the tool in a way that isn't abusive of it. So, for example, in Photoshop or any of the AI programs. Like using it to help them speed up a task that would otherwise be annoying, such as blending or adding something to the scene that fits perfectly.
But it's not taking over your whole process. So you're not like using it to fully create artwork where you have no say and like, story and again, that emotion behind it. And then I think in that case, like if we as humans keep the control over AI, continue to hold companies accountable, continue to make sure that we are kind of dictating what's happening with it, then we'll be okay.
But if AI continues to just kind of take over and we have people abuse it and like more and more companies start to add kind of scary things, I think we could see a world where computers are doing everything for us. Where they eventually, it's like more of a cyber attack type thing, which is kind of terrifying.
phil
That is terrifying. Deep fakes are something that really concern me about AI and entertainment and politics we've already seen it. Yeah, there's definitely things to be nervous about, but there's also things to be, you know, I love using it for automating the things that don't bring me joy. I talk a lot about that.
And so I can automate the things that don't bring me joy. I can spend more time doing the things that do bring me joy. And by the way, the things that bring me joy aren't necessarily a hundred percent where I make highest impact in my business. Those are still important. Like there are things that I do because I enjoy doing them.
And I keep doing them because I like doing them. I'm not trying to become like a productivity machine. I just want to ideally spend the most amount of time during the day doing the things that bring me joy. One of the other things that I am witnessing that does bring me joy is AI in some respects is democratizing Art and creativity in lots of ways.
So, for example, someone could hop into a platform like Illustrator, which, if you're not a designer, if you're not a graphic designer, and you haven't been trained in the platform, you are not going to really know what to click. I think Photoshop is easier to be self taught and to learn. And even that's pretty intimidating for someone who opens it for the first time. You're like, where do I even begin? I'm self taught in Photoshop, and it's been a decade of self teaching. Um, and I'm sure I do things in crazy weird ways, because I don't know the difference, but I've learned over time.
And yet in Illustrator, I can't do a whole lot, but yet, with the Firefly integrations that have happened in the last year, I have been able to experiment with creating in there, whether it's creating vector patterns, text to vector, uh, patterns, scenes, backgrounds, even, adding and removing things from photos, which you can do in Adobe Express.
We all knew that plug was coming. We all knew it. We all knew it. Um, like there's, these are things that we might take for granted as, as creative pros, but for like everyday business owners that don't know this stuff, like, I love that it's creating a safe space for everyone to experiment and create. To your point, I think that's one of the exciting things.
I used, uh, generative fill yesterday to, I had two headshots that I liked. I'm choosing my new profile photo. And one is me looking off to the side, which is kind of my signature. And the other one is nice. Um, it's looking to camera, but in the one looking off, I like everything except for my fingers are holding the collar of my shirt.
And when it's cropped as a circle, it looks kind of weird. It's like, what are those little nubs at the bottom of the photo? So I took my head off of the, the looking to the side and put it on top of the other one where my hands were down. And so it left a nice clean neckline. And normally I would have like fudged around in Photoshop for 45 minutes to kind of figure out how to do that.
I actually used generative fill by just selecting the area that needed to be smoothed out. And in many cases I didn't even enter a prompt. I let the AI do it. Even a few times, I didn't just take the first result. Tomáš, uh, who works on the Firefly team, taught me that. I did an Adobe Live with him, he's like, Phil, never accept the first result you get from AI.
Keep iterating, keep iterating, keep iterating. And that was such good feedback. Anna, that's a perfect example of speeding up, expediting, or automating the annoying things because it would have been really annoying to do that.
anna
Yes, and I think that's so huge because those are ways, again, that we can use, like, I can say this at nauseam, but we can use AI as a tool.
You're using it to help you with a thing that is normally tedious and annoying, but you're not changing anything about you or your headshot, or even, you know, if you were making a piece of art, you're just using it to help you with a little task. And I think like we as the creators, no matter what we're doing, whether it's artwork, whether it's a headshot, whether it's graphic design, whether it's a billboard for our company, whatever, we have the control, currently, until robots take over the world, we have the control to decide how we want to use the tool.
So, it's fully up to us. Like, if we want to create an entire piece of art and have no control over it, then that's still us being in control making that decision. If we want to just use it to fix some nubs on our t shirt, like then that's us having the control to make that decision. Again, like, that's where it needs, we need to, as human beings, as the creators, take the power and hold the reins on AI and be the ones in control.
phil
So, what advice would you have for a small business owner that isn't quite as confident with technology or AI, and they're overwhelmed by the topic as a whole? Ideas for them on where to even, like, begin?
anna
Yeah. I mean, gotta give a little shameless plug to Adobe Express, right?
phil
We've given a few of those.Yeah. Welcome to my world.
anna
And we can't talk about any of the competitors, so.
phil
I'm also, I'm also in an ad for Adobe Acrobat right now for tax season. So every day I get at least 10 people that are like, um, is this you? Is this you? I'm like, yes, it's me. I bet you didn't know you already have everything you need.
Now it's on TikTok for tax season. You have everything you need. So yeah, you know, if you're going to be in my world, yeah, there you go. Yeah. It worked. Measure of success.
anna
I mean, that's a perfect example. Like I don't actually know how to use Acrobat in that way. I know they have the AI assistant now and I need to get my taxes ready.
So I need to, um, have you helped me with that later on, but yeah, like I think picking up some of the tools or I guess I should say programs, since I've used the word tools a lot in this podcast, the different programs that you maybe feel you're semi comfortable with or have used or at least heard of whether it's express or canva Sorry to mention them or or even squarespace if your website's on there. They've integrated AI now or adobe acrobat or photoshop. Just maybe pick up one of them and say you're a business owner. One of your tasks is to make a marketing campaign. So you open up express and you choose an image and you use AI to help you write something out. And you're just kind of sampling around. I think it's easy to get overwhelmed with the number of different programs there are out there, especially when they're more robust, like mid diffusion.
And I mean, even chat GPT can be overwhelming. So now. The more different companies are integrating it, it's a good chance for small business owners to just like test the waters and try things out and just choose one, sample it, learn it a little bit, and then you can expand from there.
phil
Stakes are low. Try them out without any expectation. I mean, the first prompt I put into chat GPT didn't even make sense, but you got to start somewhere. I didn't even, I didn't know what to ask it. Cause like, I don't know what it's going to tell me in return. I don't even know what to type in here. But, you know, you probably felt that way about Google at some point, and now we do it without second guessing.
And there are so many instances where I find the result that I get from AI, It doesn't have to just be chat GPT, but Claude or Gemini or Magi, there's a whole bunch of them. Like I actually get a better result than, than Google, which is trying to sell me stuff. Sponsored, sponsored, sponsored.
anna
Yeah, I know. It's so true. And I mean, yeah, even in that, like thinking about all the different programs that are out there, like that in itself is so overwhelming. You're like, wait, which should I use? And, you know, and I think it just, um, like, I don't even use half of them. I don't even use a third or quarter, like the smallest amount of them.
I sometimes will use chatGPT and then obviously like using Adobe stuff now 'cause I'm biased, but, and like that's good enough for me. That fulfills my workflow. It helps me get done what I need to do and I still have a pretty smart brain I think. So I like to continue doing some of the things that I've always done just.
You know, like I said before, if you're happy doing things the way you have, or it's working for you or you enjoy it, then just like use AI in the areas that you need to and feel the desire to, you don't have to go crazy with it. And I think that's where people are feeling overwhelmed. It's like, I have to do everything because everyone else is, and everyone's talking about these tools.
It's like, is your life still functioning the way it always has? Then fine. Keep going that way. Just test things out when you have time.
anna
That's the perfect advice, literally, I feel like we should, we should, we should wrap up on that note. So tell us, tell our listener where they can get more from you.
anna
Yes.So Instagram is always the best place, although I've been a little bit quiet on there, but it's Anna McNaughty on Instagram, or you can email me. anna@amcnaught.com or a mcnaught@adobe.com, which always feels so fun to say, but Instagram's the best place to get ahold of me.
phil
And I said I would be on my last question, but I'm lying.
So this is the actual last question, . What are you excited about looking forward? I mean, you are a futurist in the nature of the work that you're doing. So like what? What are you excited about moving forward? It can be you personally. It can be you work-wise. Gimme a good answer.
anna
Oh, man, that's a big question. Let's see. I mean, I'm first most excited about presenting at Max London for the keynote in April. So that's one of the most excited things right now. That's kind of in my present radar. And then, uh, honestly, I'm just like, it sounds so dumb, but I'm just really excited for summer and being outside again and hiking.
And it's been like a long, cold winter and a lot of time spent on my computer. And I'm a nature girl at heart and I need to be outside. And one of the things I'm actually thinking of doing is starting a whole new Instagram account just for my analog life of like painting and being outside and really beautiful pictures in nature.
I'm super into herbalism and so sharing a little bit about that and just doing something for fun for me. And I think I'm like really due for that right now. And so, yeah, I'm super stoked on that.
phil
You have to go and do that. We all want that from you, and you underscore this, I think, just this like, human nature desire that we're gonna see with the increase of AI and technology, we're all gonna crave more human. Analog, like, disconnecting, all of these types of things, we're all gonna need to make time for them, and to almost like take a step back. I And it's, yeah, I'm in the process of rebranding and that is completely the inspiration.
At the time that I'm publishing this episode, it hasn't gone live yet, but as soon as we hang up on this, I'm going to show you. So we're going to do that. I'm so excited.
anna
Oh, I was just going to add one more thing. I think like you're right about meeting the human connection and the human element.
And I think that's what I'm super attracted to right now online is when I see these beautiful videos of like someone walking through a field with like this quote over it or like music or them just like disconnecting and relaxation. I eat that content up and I think like. There's something really appealing about going back to, um, like homesteading and Prairie Life, and being a woods knome, you know,
phil
A hundred percent. Well, now we know your future. I think it's great.
anna
Yes, I love it.
phil
Please do it on all of our behalf.
anna
I absolutely will. Thanks for hanging out with us on Brand Therapy.
