40. A creative director who wants opportunities
If you've got knowledge and skills, is that enough to get a recruiter's attention? 🤔 In this week's episode, we work through this challenge with A.C., a creative producer. A.C.'s got experience, but isn't sure how to translate that experience in a way that's appealing to recruiters. Lauren and Phil give him the best advice on all things jobs, from reaching out to recruiters to an elevator pitch to writing a cover letter.
Episode transcription
Phil:
Well hello there, welcome to Brand Therapy. I'm Phil.
Lauren:
And I'm Lauren.
Phil:
This is a podcast where we help people from all different industries and backgrounds tackle some of those challenges that they face that you might be facing as well today. A challenge we've all faced at some point in our careers and that is landing a job and not just any job, right. One that is meaningful and exciting and allows you to grow within it.
Lauren:
This guest is great. I want him to get a job so badly and it was really, it was really nice to see that someone who is clearly successful, clearly capable can also struggle finding a job. It was almost like refreshing in a way to see that you can be really, really good at something and still struggle. So I'm really hoping that we were able to help him serve, have some clarity today.
Phil:
If you are trying to find a job, spend less time on LinkedIn and more time listening to this episode because actually to your credit, you give some good tips here. Let's jump right into it. Shall We?
Lauren:
Let's go.
Phil:
Here's our conversation with A.C.
A.C
Well my name is A.C. I am a Los Angeles based creative director and video producer and I'm, I'm having a challenge finding freelance. I advertisement work as far as experiential design and just video production for the sake of experiences. So I've been doing that kind of for a while, but I've been looking to get into more the advertisement space and then just getting new clientele, expand my network, things like that. And I'm just having challenges doing that.
Lauren:
Well, LA is a very competitive place, so I don't think you're alone in that. Could you explain what experiential design is?
A.C:
Well, for the last nine or so years I've been working mostly in the religious space, um, like Christian conferences, things like that. Now that could be everything from uh, an interactive installation all the way down to LED, sort of computerized motion graphics that are on a screen or something like that. All those things. What does it look like to take someone into a space, having them experience something in a deeper and richer level and maybe that's the product that needs to be launched. Maybe that page of book that needs to be talked about. Maybe that's all the way into a piece of music that people want to experience in a different way or a teaching point that needs to be explored in a deeper, more tactile way. I think my expert piece is being a thought leader in that type of space, like really breaking down a brief being like, “ Yo, this is a really cool idea that you want to explore this a passage of maybe scripture or this passage in a book”. What does it look like for us to do the five things and an open space on a piece of, on a wall artistically so that people can engage in it. And I've been doing that for a while.
Lauren:
Got It. So I guess your skill set would be used by either brands or agencies that are wanting to do displays that are either, I guess sporadic like displays that yeah, or a at expos and conventions.
A.C:
Yeah, expos conventions are like my biggest like thing that I, I love to watch everything and I've been once just Coachella. Definitely want to be in those cabinets. Spaces making installation work, making experiential design thinking through even show direction. What does it look like for an artist to really break down the walls of what they're doing, trying to communicate, you know. Like let's say you a singer songwriter and they don't really know where to take their show. So it could be a really great pop in show at Coachella while it should bear and be like, okay, let's listen to these 10 songs that you're already doing your set. Let's go along with the aesthetic that you've already presented on social media or you know, and really sort of develop what your show kind of looks like in a deeper and richer way according to your budget know.
Lauren
Yeah. Yeah. I used to work for an an ad agency actually in Long Beach. Um, I used to live there. Yeah and um, I know from, it was mainly an automotive agency, so there is a lot of experiential stuff in the automotive world. I didn't personally do any of it, but I know that there are agencies out there that specialize in that, especially in automotive and I'm sure other industries. So I guess my question for you is, do you want to keep freelancing or would your ideal situation be being part of an agency?
A.C
I mean ideally I would love to grow in the agency space. Like big, huge goal of mine. I know listening found really crazy between experiential design and show direction, the marriage of those two is, you know, creative directing. The half time show at the opening ceremonies of the Olympics, that’s my big goal for me. But retracting that like I would love to work at either a creative agency or, or an advertising agency.
Lauren
Perfect. Have you applied for jobs at agencies and have you interviewed?
A.C
Yeah. And I'm usually, I have like, I had one interview over the but you know, it just didn’t pan out the way I thought it was going to. I had a really rich contact there and um, and then everybody else just told me like, uh, who works in the advertisement states that I just really need to brush up on all my case studies on the basis of like, you know, while we did something, what was the attraction, what, you know, how it worked out. And that's something that I didn't have before the summer. I assumed my portfolio and my website was good enough, but along with that, just being more confident person with, in conversations with people in the advertisement space, as I'm shaking hands and kissing babies being like, you know, I'm really, really, really good. I have a lot of great ideas and I can, not only do, I have really great ideas, but I can execute them in a really high level if you can just try.
Lauren:
Yeah. So do you have those case studies now?
A.C:
I don't. Okay.
Lauren:
Yeah, I definitely, I would recommend working on them even if it was just uh, uh, like a one sheet or a page on your website. I find that the most effective case studies come down to actually the like the last detail, the better. You're just wanting to give someone a story and to show like this was the problem, this was my solution, this is what happened, this is the result. And it's just covering those four things. So we've experienced this one figuring out what to put on our own portfolio and it's so easy to overthink it. So I would encourage you to just go to a coffee shop, pull out a pen and paper and just jot down bullet points for each one. And that will often be like enough at least to start.
Phil:
Another thing you can do is find someone that you can explain the project and record yourself explaining the project in conversation. I know that sounds weird, but in conversation you will literally sum up what it was and why it mattered really beautifully. If you put yourself in an environment where you can have that dialogue with someone, maybe a stranger or maybe, I mean not, not a family member or anyone close to you, but try and explain it to someone who knows nothing about it. Record yourself, explaining it, using an app like Rev, which I love for getting my thoughts down and then having a human transcribe it for only a dollar a minute. They should pay us.
Lauren:
They should pay us.
Phil:
Wait, he's like, he's like Rev. I know them cause we won't shut up about them,
A.C:
Huh? No, no, no, no, no, no. I love them, uh, we used them for my last VA’s that I produced, we needed close captioning and we're like, how are we going to get this done? And they, you know, they deliver the project file back and you know, it's great.
Phil:
But I mean, I think to explain that project conversationally is going to be key. And then one of the other challenges is figuring out how to visually show, visually show what it was and why it mattered, particularly for a website. But I feel like case studies, that's what you need. You need something that's a portfolio on a website kind of works in this way. Your portfolio gives your potential customer that the confidence in that what you've delivered to people in the past is something deliver to them at a cost that they're willing to pay. So that's how the portfolio works. So your case study delivers to your potential client, the confidence that you can deliver to them what you've delivered in the past. And that's just keep that in mind, that's how portfolios work and how all the projects kind of interact together to kind of show the breadth of what you're able to do. And visuals. I think that's always the hardest part. I'll be honest, on our website, I really struggle because there is a visual aspect to what we do, but it's not the only part of what we do. In fact, part of why we even started this podcast, was so that people could listen to the fact that we had ideas in our brain because it's kind of hard to put those into case study, but it's not impossible. And I would say keep a list of how others are doing this well. Some of the top agencies as some of the top agencies have a lot of people working just on projects like this. Internal projects like portfolio projects, client projects. So how do others do it and how do they do it with brevity, with a conversational tone, how do they use visuals? You don't need to copy anyone, but you can be strongly inspired by what others are doing well. So that's something to think about.
A.C:
That's great my man. That's great.
Lauren:
Another thing I'd recommend doing while you're job hunting, is to approach job hunting from like three different levels. So once you've got your case studies ready, I would, and this might be unethical, so are like list, oh glory. So our listeners are going to be like, don't do that. Don't listen to her. But anyway, I'm going to going to say it. So what I have done in the past when before I was working with Phil and when I was working in the, like the employed world was I would contact literally every single recruiter for a recruiter specifically. And I would write to them and it sounds so obnoxious, but I'd be like, hi, I'm open to looking into opportunities. I've looked at the activity that you've had online and I would love for you to represent me and I would love to give you the business like basically make it seem like they should be honored that you're approaching them so that they can find you a job and say would you be willing to get on the phone with me so I can tell you the types of work that I'm looking for. Because recruiters, that's how they make money. They are salespeople first and foremost. They will get on the phone with you, especially if you make it more open ended and not about a specific position where they can write you off and say you're not ready. Get on the phone with them and I would have as many recruiters working for you as possible. You're supposed to ideally work with just one and you can, as you start getting to know them, you can narrow them down.
A.C
Are you saying the recruiters for this specific agency, or just recruiters in general?
Lauren:
So sometimes agencies will have in house recruiters, but those recruiters are dealing with a lot of, a lot of traffic and a lot of applicants for specific jobs. So a lot of the times they won't even talk to you unless you've applied to one of their jobs and they can see right away that you fit that job. But I'm talking about the free, like the actual like free floating recruiting agencies that are looking for jobs online and basically trying to get in the door and maybe don't have contacts at that company. So if you literally just look up Los Angeles recruiters advertising, I can think of, and I can email over some that I, I've been messaging like that messaged me in the past when I was in the agency world, but they live for this stuff. And especially like you're very personable, very well spoken, clearly know what you're doing. So there's no reason why they wouldn't want to work with you. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. So recruiters that, so recruiters is group number one. Group number two are HR people. I would contact, go look up every agency that you can in La and contact the HR people directly and number one, see if they have a job available. Number two, if they don't have a job available, I would write a really sincere message on LinkedIn or wherever and say, I really admire the work that your agency does. It would be my dream to work for you, here's what I've done. I appreciate and respect your time, but I just want to let you know that if you have any opportunities down the road, I would love to have a conversation with you.
A.C
That's great.
Phil:
You're going to have a job by the end of the day. I know it's going to happen. This is gold over here.
Lauren:
The third route that I would recommend is actually contacting creative directors, specifically at agencies and asking for them to go get coffee. And you can say like make it about flattery. Don't make it about a job. Don't make it about you. Make it about I, I came across your profile on LinkedIn, we have this, we have, you know, a certain amount of connections in common. If you do, if you don't, that's fine. But say I saw your LinkedIn profile, I'm so impressed by your working history and if you're available, I would love the chance to have a quick phone call with you because I would love for my career to look like yours someday.
A.C
That’s flattery, sometime I wonder if that, if that like backfires sometimes because people are so used to people asking them to pick their brain.
Lauren:
Well, that's the thing. You can't ask to pick your brain. As soon as I get a message from someone saying, pick your brain, I think, oh my God, they don't respect my time. They're done. I will never talk with them. That's, and maybe that's not the right attitude, but that's how I feel.
Lauren:
Okay. Stop. Because we're going to play a fun little game. Phil, you there?
Phil:
I'm here.
Lauren:
Always looking down at your phone. I never know if you're engaged.
Phil:
Usually I'm not. You know, usually not.
Lauren:
Okay, let's play a quick game. Let's try to come up with as many words that rhyme with brand in the next 20 seconds go.
Phil:
Good bland grant stand. Dan and Dan ran.
Lauren:
You failed for the first time! Well, thankfully we don't have to rhyme for our day jobs. We actually do Brandt audit consultations. It's like this episode but on steroids.
Phil:
And you get a detailed brand audit recap at the very end of it that will help you put everything we discussed into motion. Achieve those goals. philpallen.expert/therapy where you can get a special promo
Lauren:
For 15% off
Phil:
Yes. Okay, let's get back to the show.
Lauren:
Okay.
Lauren:
Well that's the thing. Can't ask to pick your brain. As soon as I get a message from someone saying, pick your brain, I think, oh my God, they don't respect my time, they're done. I will never talk with them. That's, and maybe that's not the right attitude, but that's how I feel. Whereas if you make it more like about a phone call instead of coffee, cause that's, those are very different things. And actually say, I really respect your time, but I would be honored to have a call with you because I hope for my career to look like yours someday. That's not asking to pick your brain. That's not asking for a job. That's literally just like, I don't know, it just feels a bit more sincere to me.
A.C
And it probably feels a little bit more attainable. Like, Hey, this guy's not going to pick up two hours of my time or an hour and a half, like 30 minutes. You know what I'm saying? And I'll know. Yeah, I'll see you later. Um, there's a natural plug in our pockets and another podcast. He just had great conversations with people about like how like others, uh, creative directors and other chief marketing officers about where they from. And that's something that a lot of men talked about it like, Hey, I'll give you 30 minutes of my time. But after that, you know, they feel like it's a disrespect of their time and they don't have very much after that,
Phil:
Yeah, as long as you're clear about it from the beginning then and you're respectful from start to finish. The psychology of this is really important. Through the job application process, you want to constantly be thinking out, thinking about why would they throw my resume in the garbage? Why would I ignore an email from you? There's a, it's a very powerful difference when you send an email or make a call and ask for something for you because it's about you. That's very different than emailing someone with flattery and with actually a sincere compliment, not something that's been pasted to 20 other people, but something that shows sincerity and proof.
A.C
eah. Yeah. I really liked what you guys would be at on the target spot. I really, really thought that they'd pop up egg, you know, south by was really, really cool. Yeah, I know. Something like that.
Phil:
Yeah, exactly. If you can refer to something specific, can I point something else out? Um, AC, this is, this strategy is not new to you cause this in part is what you actually did to us. So you're here on this podcast. Might I just point out the obvious, but you emailed us saying that you enjoyed the podcast and we were really flattered by it and so I responded back to you in the timeframe that I would have responded back to a client who pays me lots of money because of the way that you did it. Now had you emailed us and said, I would love your advice. I have a goal and I'm really keen on doing this with my career. And I'd say, great, here's how much it costs for our services. You know what I'm saying? So there's a real part of this isn't news to you. And I thought it would point it out because in fact that's how you landed yourself here on this conversation, which is cool.
A.C
Wow, I appreciate that, man. Yeah. Like why are we even, yeah, I mean, I'm just kidding. I mean, and I meant it though. I mean like that librarian sentence thing that like, ah, I can't even remember what it was. The young lady that you asked to do it was, I think it was the musician that was like the, the person who represents musicians and you said, you know, I can't, you know, and so it really helped me formulate like a little bit of my brand sentence, which was like, I help companies grow with creativity. Like, and that was it. And I was like, oh, that's like best digestible. It's a nice elevator pitch when I'm in an elevator with someone and they're like, hey, what are you doing? It's like our creative directors and produce, well, what does that mean? I help companies grow with creativity in a, your grow and your creativity. And I go, okay, that means a dollar sign. And that means like that's attainable rather than like, well, you know, I do some things and you know, Yeah. I love it. I thought that was good.
Lauren:
I love it. Yeah. I think for you, recruiters are really going to be that missing element. I really think so because they work fast, they work hard, they want people who they'd feel comfortable representing, and you're obviously a very stable and nice hardworking person. You can tell that within two minutes of talking with you. So look them up. There's all, as I mentioned, I'll email you some that I know are, are good and I, there are, so it's good that you're in the La area because there are so many agencies and so many that are looking for producers, like with your skillset.
A.C
Yeah. It was interesting cause I, you know, I had an opportunity to right there go back to the south and um, after being here for a little while and I just always felt like LA was going to be my best place for upside. Now there is a lot of competition, a lot of people that probably want to do what I do. I have great ideas, but I think I have a unique voice and I'm looking. I'm excited the fact that I've been here and I'm going to invest into this space because there's so much opportunity, you know?
Phil:
Yeah. I love that. I have one, um, one final side I've been thinking about on this topic because I feel like you're, we're gonna, we're gonna let you loose. You're ready to go. You're like I say, you're gonna have a job by the end of the day, but it's the, it, this process is stressful. This process is stressful and it's very easy to put a lot of pressure on yourself to find something quick as a result of rent due next month. As a result of all those other pressures that you have in order for this to work. You can't go in and I don't have to tell you this but I bring it up cause I, I feel like it's an important thing to think about, even if you have mastered this skill, it's not about going in and creating a transaction. It's about going in and creating a relationship because you can try all day to anticipate where that relationship will end up, but you won't, you do not know because maybe they won't hire you but maybe they know someone who knows someone whose uncle is hiring for the exact position you're looking for and maybe not. But the fact is be a good person. Focus on the relationship you create and really hit it off with someone and do that by listening. And that, I mean I haven't been as much on the job market obviously cause I started doing this on my own in comparison to Lauren, but that's never steered me wrong, that approach. Right? Absolutely.
Lauren:
Yeah. No, it's true. I can think of when I was in intern, my first internship in New York a billion years ago, because I'm 30 now and not in my twenties there was an HR woman there and I really made an effort to get to know her and then she ended up helping me get an in years later after she had moved companies, she helped me get an in toy like r and d job that I really, really wanted. So you never really know that. You never, first of all, the world is much smaller than we think and you never really know how someone's going to come into your life in the future, how you can help them in the future too. So definitely keep that in mind. And especially with recruiters, I mean they, their job is to know people. That's their job. So I think that would work for you. Another thing that came to mind was you, you might want to test this out. You might want to make like a list of all the agencies that you're wanting to contact and maybe half of them contact people who are HR directors or managers. And then the other half contact HR coordinators. These are people who are new on the team who are trying to make a name for themselves internally who are trying to find a good candidate or a good person to hire. And they would, because they're a coordinator, they might not be getting as many asks as those directors. So might want to experiment with who you're contacting like hierarchy wise.
A.C:
That was great. Let's do it.
Phil:
Beautiful. Like I said, I think we need to let you loose and you need to go in a take action on some of this stuff, how you feel and you're going to kill it. How you feeling about all this?
A.C
I feel good. I feel like it's even more reinforcement of some things that I knew that I needed to be done. But I appreciate you guys really breaking this down in a more comprehensive way so that I can like have like some real action steps. Um, cause I mean by the end of September I started to get a little discouraged. Like oh man, you know, can people just see my brilliance no of course saying I was like now, yeah. All right, I'm going, I need to really develop more relationships.
Lauren:
Sorry I keep saying one last thing, one last thing but this is actually one last thing. Make sure that when you are sending cover letters to apply to specific jobs, make them custom. And I mean that sincerely. It may even if it takes another half hour, write your letter from scratch for that job and match the tone and match the job description. Cater your cover letter to match whatever the application is.
A.C
Do you feel people really read them?
Lauren:
100% 100% because that's where people get a feeling of your personality. A resume is acted as is really a filter, right? It's to make sure you have the qualifications, but the cover letter is to make sure that you match the culture of the agency. So I would make it as casual, like again, use Rev for this. Whenever I applied for jobs for competitive jobs back in the day, I would make sure that my cover letter was completely customized and would almost always get called for interviews and would always get compliments on my cover letter because it stood out. It was obvious that it wasn't copied and pasted. It was obviously it was for the company passion came through in the language. It didn't feel like it was full of jargon just to get through the search barometers or whatever they, they said, but yeah, so write it from scratch because then it's really authentic and people in HR, they're, you know, they, they're trained to look for that authenticity and I think it'll help.
A.C:
Love it. Yeah. That's something that I didn't did now. I appreciate it.
Phil:
Now we're actually going to let them go and do all of this. Okay. Enough with the good ideas. A.C. you feeling good?
A.C:
I'm feeling good. I man, I appreciate it.
Phil:
Beautiful. Thank you for hanging out with us on Brand Therapy and for also listening to the show and we look forward to hearing about all of these successes when you get that job. Not if but when. Give us a call back so we can celebrate.
A.C
I will, I gotcha brother!
Phil:
Have a good day and we will chat with you soon.
A.C
I will, chat soon.
Phil:
Well aren't you full of good ideas?
Lauren:
Well he's so nice. I want him to have a job. It's that some I you were like, you're like enough. And I was like, and then and then and then.
Phil:
I know, but it was good advice and I think it's good to hear that perspective and to hear someone else's perspective cause it's not like he's not trying, it's just to find a different way to approach that I think is really useful. I liked that he appreciated us breaking it down into specific steps because it does feel overwhelming but baby steps, it's a, it's a marathon, not a sprint type of approach to really find a job that you're going to love. You could find something crappy overnight, really quick, but that's not really what you want to find. You wanna find something that's meaningful and exciting and positions you forgot. So I think he has some good ideas on where to go from here.
Lauren:
Yeah, I agree. I agree. And it, I think it comes down to confidence. A lot of it too, it's not that your desperate for a job, it's not that you're trying to get a job in any job. It's like having the confidence to know that you have the right to be selective and that company should be honored that you're applying to work with them.
Phil:
We want to know what you think. #brandtherapy. Let's continue the conversation. If you've taken a time to spend a few minutes with us today, we want to hear from you. Find us on social media. I'm @philpallen.
Lauren:
I'm @thelaurenmoore.
Phil:
And uh, say hello. Let us know you’re a listener just like A.C. did and in fact landed himself on our podcast. If you enjoyed listening, take a few seconds and go to the apple podcast, iTunes store and leave a review. And we're also now on Spotify, so that's kind of fun. So, um, we'll be back here again next week on brand therapy. Thank you guys for taking a few minutes to listen and we will see you back next week.
Lauren:
Bye Bye.
