43. A consultant who knows how to build a tribe (f. Emily Gallagher)
Do you know the secret to building a tribe? 🎉 In our brand new special guest format, you’re going to learn from a bona fide expert! Business strategist and speaker Emily Gallagher is the first of our new format, where this time the hosts will be asking all the questions. You’ll learn how to master sales through authenticity, find your voice, and give an audience something they really need.
Episode transcription
Phil:
Well hello, welcome to Brand Therapy from Morocco. I'm Phil.
Lauren:
And from Los Angeles, I'm Lauren. Every time we do this people are going to be like, guess where Lauren is?
Phil:
Lauren’s in LA.
Lauren:
Yup.
Phil:
I'm in Morocco this week. In fact, we haven't talked very much this week because I'm writing my speaking engagements and gearing up for conference season. But you know what, we're going to have a good little podcast episode today. I feel like if people pick this episode, listen to, they picked a good one.
Lauren:
Yeah. This is our first new format episode with an expert.
Phil
It is. And I'm excited to do this and maybe we should tell people very quickly why we started doing this. So many episodes prior, actually all 42 episodes prior, we've gotten someone on the phone and they've asked us a very specific question to help us answer them, to help them build their brand. But this is our first expert. So Lauren and I decided, actually we spend a lot of time giving people advice. Why don't we position ourselves to also have conversations as part of this with experts so that we can learn from others and dive deeper on topics, particularly ones that people ask us about. So that's what we're doing.
Lauren:
Yeah. So for this episode, we're speaking with Emily Gallagher, and not only is Emily one of our good friends, but she's an amazing, amazing leader. She runs these programs and gets hundreds of people to sign up, and has built a community for herself, teaching people how to really become their own wellness experts. So this whole episode is focused around the concept of building a community and rallying a crowd, which is pretty cool.
Phil:
She's really consistent on Instagram. She's really, really good at selling, but not in an icky way. So I feel like when it comes to community building, Emily's really, really smart. So we're going to learn how to build our tribes today from Emily. Shall we get to this very exciting premiere expert episode?
Lauren:
Let's go.
Phil:
Let's do it. Here's our chat with Emily Gallagher.
Phil:
Well, so there's a few reasons. We have you on the phone. We're excited to have you because you've helped us in a number of ways and even deciding on the angle for this episode, Lauren and I were like, there's so many things we could talk to her about. We'll probably touch on all of them, but the thing that brings it all together is how to build your tribe. Even when I hear that word, I think of you. I literally think of you like that is your word. That is what you do. Everything that you've helped us with extends from that idea of building your tribe. Am I wrong?
Emily:
I love that. I love that you think of me. Makes me very happy.
Phil:
What does that word mean to you? How would you define it or even describe the role that that word plays in your own business?
Emily:
Yeah, I mean I think that that word can be subbed out for lots of different words. You know, ultimately that community connection, people, it’s relationship with environment. Like I feel like those are all synonyms terms of what we're really talking about and you know, people relate to that differently. But to me it's really about you are who you're around. Your community is so important and especially when you're like building a business and creating connection.
Being able to firstly have your own tribe, your own community of people that are inspiring, that are, that are creating that a holding you up that you know, you and I am, all three of us have all supported each other with our businesses. You know like being able to have that back and forth and your tribe is so crucial. And then also when you can build a tribe around your brand, your message does your own community. It's a really powerful force to build your business and to build something really meaningful, so I think.
Lauren
So I want to know and I want to know honestly, have you always had the ability to get people behind a cause? Like have you always been the person who has a good idea and can get everyone on board or is this something that you learned over time?
Emily:
I think it's definitely something I've learned at the time. I don't really feel like that was who I was growing up necessarily. I think it really happened to me when I like I always do my, what if I did this and I got into Facebook marketing today. I think that was really just this time that I kind of like saw like, okay, this would be a way that I would build this and this is what would be fun to name with to have the community around me to kind of build the team energy and what I'm doing. And I felt like that was when it really started. So really only when I started my sort of entrepreneurial journey did that become something that I placed at the forefront and then started actively doing, I don't really think it was before them to be honest.
Lauren:
I love that because whenever I hear about things like tribe, I'm like, well the person leading the tribe likely is very gregarious and kind and inspiring and people like always have loved them cause you are like just so warm and lovable and I'm like well easy for that person. But for someone who is more reserved that would be a lot harder.
Emily:
The thing is is that like I feel like we live in this culture too where like extra that is like being an extroverted, like this revered status. Whereas a lot of people aren't extroverted. Even myself, I don't even think I'm a full extrovert. I inquired as spaces, I like to have a lot of alone time. That's a huge part of what I need to thrive and survive. And so there's lots of communities that don't necessarily relate to being built a certain way.
So if you're a slightly more reserved or just slightly cool introverted, you can still build tribe and community and you would have official source for the people that are seeking that kind of community. Do you know what I mean? Like not all connection communities and tribes are the same different kinds of experiences relate to different people. So I think if you feel like, oh, I am that person that's a little more reserved, but I still want to have these connections, of course you can. It would just work differently and that's perfect. It doesn't need to look, I suppose the best way for it to feel good, you know?
Lauren:
Yeah. Yeah. I love it. And so where does it all start? Does it start with a cause or a purpose or something that kind of gets people behind you? Where does it begin?
Emily
Yeah, I think that that's really crucial because I think that if we think about what really drives people and what builds community, there has to be a thread, right? So it's like what is that thread that is like bringing people and truly together. And because when we are building community and tribe, the central point isn't you, you know? As someone who builds tribes or community, I felt like, hey, this is me. Come and hang out with me. Like this is the community that's about me. Like, that's not appealing to people. So what's that common theme? So if it's a call as if it's a mission, if it's a message, if it's a purpose, you know, whatever it is. Like I do think it has to be that central point for people to relate to and to be like, oh yeah, this is the community for me because this is really what it's about. You know, that's not about someone but it's about something.
Lauren:
So how do you think people create a mission? What would your advice be on finding that mission?
Emily:
I honestly think that it changes. I don't necessarily think we have one test and one mission necessarily. I like style from in like a transitional space right now where I feel like, oh, you know, I'm interested in different things and that the past has it. I don't think that you necessarily have one thing cause I think that sometimes that can be really overpowering for people and also overwhelming, right? How do I find my vision? Like what is my mission statement? And I think that can be really helpful to do, don't get me wrong, I think this one tends to cause also get in the way of people taking action. And I find that through really taking action on what you are excited by, what you're curious about, what's lighting you up.
That's generally what leads you to find your, you'll miss it because I think people try to do it from the outset without really knowing what they are looking for and then it's overwhelming cause it's like I don't know whether they should do that or other purposes. So I think like truly just follows what keeps lighting you up and being curious about your excitement and what you're passionate about. Will generally lead you to groups and then experiences, roles, businesses. Whatever that's going to unveil your mission eventually.
Phil:
Now if someone said to me, put into words what Emily does the best this. Yeah, I know. The thing that I would honestly say is taking action. It's taking action. How many times have you said to me stop and just post it or stop and do it or stop and finish it. Stop trying to make it perfect. Just publish it. Specifically if it wasn't for you, well the force of you add Lauren, let's be honest, if it wasn't for the two of you saying just do it, I would have never launched Super Rich, Small Biz my program, which we've now done twice and it's been wonderful. It's been amazing. I would've never done it because I wanted to wait until it was perfect. And I didn't wait and now I'm okay with it. I'm at peace with it. Right. So what's your advice to people who suffer from perfection paralysis who have trouble taking action? Because there's a lot of reasons people don't take action, distraction, lack of focus, all these kinds of things. What's your advice?
Emily:
Yeah, I went on live stream with someone the other day who asked me the exact same question and I always think it's like a stick for him. You know that you'll sit on like from perfection to kind of messy, I guess you could say. I feel like I've always been more on the spectrum of just I need to stop for a second and have like maybe just reread the page to make sure there's no spelling mistakes or whatever, then put it out, because my mentality is just getting it done and say to them, perfect. So, you know, I didn't really suffer from the perfectionist thing, but I also have to make sure I take that extra time.
Emily:
It's really one of those things that like until like you just said, you had all of this energy around like it's gotta be perfect. It's got to be perfect, like, I'm not ready and now you've done it twice and it's neutralized and you feel good and now you will move forward with your next project with less attachment to waiting for that perfect space. Or for it to be quote unquote perfect, which to be honest is unrealistic because most people don't even know what perfectly little looks like or feels like. It's just this reason of like, but I'm not there now. It's not really now I got really yet, but it's a perpetual conversation that they never really get to. Okay, now it's perfect. So I think you just have to retrain yourself to lean in. Okay. Everything inside of me is feeling like it's not ready, but like putting it out like it just retraining yourself like you've done. Because then the next time you go to your next project, you're going to be like, well, I put that one out and it went perfectly fine. So you have a new anchor point. Do you know what I mean? To know how to operate moving forward. Phil: Yeah, it's true. It's true.
Emily:
Just up and ship it. Just do it. What have you got to lose, I think is a good match. It's just usually like a fear of not meeting a certain standard or someone touching it or whatever, but it's like you're always your own harshest critic, so just get it out there. Success loves speed, is a good mantra as well.
Phil:
Oh, I liked that. The second thing I was going to say to you is that you're very consistent. There's no one that I know who posts on Instagram stories as consistently as you. How do you find time to do it or how do you just find things to talk about? I'm like, what do people want to hear from me today? I don't even know and I end up not posting. But you do that very well as well?
Emily
Well, I hang out with people that post a lot. I think that probably helps. Like I believe that I’m not the most consistent on posting out of the friends that I have. But again, I think it's just like, you know, building that habit and then like not being attached to an outcome. Like I posted stuff that no one would probably care about or it's not, I'm like, oh, can't believe I posted that. But I did.
And again, you just get into this habit of just sharing things without attachment or needing it to perfect, or needing it to have an outcome for it to be worthy quote unquote of being posted. I do. I think for the as well, Instagram for example, like drives a lot of my business. It's a great way of building products as well as it's built so many amazing people in this space through being connected on Instagram. So it is a beautiful vehicle for lots of other things, and I think that that makes it more motivating for me to do as well. So you find the right reasons, then you go and create the right actions, you know?
Lauren:
Yeah, that makes sense. So when you find your mission, you start building your tribe, you find something to sell that successful, like a program or service. How do you keep that tribe satisfied without feeling like a salesperson? How do you keep things fresh and continue to sell to people who are trusting you without feeling uncomfortable?
Emily:
Yes. This is a great question and one that I get asked a lot just in terms of like people's comfortability, I guess with sales. I think it's like when you truly know that your work is beneficial for people and helpful to people. Like if you're building a tribe of people around the message and the relative mission, essentially these are people that are coming into your space because you have something that they want or that they need or that they are looking for. So you're actually serving them by being able to support them in creating that. You know, people have this fear of being salesy and it's like when you're truly connected to the things that you do or the service that you provide, then you”re providing value in between. They're like, yeah, do I think you should get on Instagram or wherever every day and ask somebody to buy something? No, but if you're genuinely building relationships with people at the same time, you're showing up and you're adding value, then I think it's only fair that you actually give people that opportunity to know how to work with you, to know how you can support them. They need what you're doing.
So by holding it back, I don't think you're actually selling them at all. And again, it's again, it's just that level of practice, you know, getting good at sales practice, getting good at posting, like all of these things are just practices. So I think it's just like finding the way that feels good for you to enroll. Your own natural way of inviting people to work with you is also important as well. You know, when it just feels natural, you're just inviting people, then it feels good and people are grateful.
Lauren:
And how do you put a price on that?
Emily:
Put a price on what specifically?
Lauren:
How do you put a price on what you're selling and the value of what you're selling, if it's intangible but you believe in it?
Emily:
Yeah, again a good question and this one I think is one of the things is it has to be relevant to you. So when it comes to services, there's such a variance in what's being offered that someone could say, oh charge $10,000 for this, but you already feel resonant with charging 2. If you try to charge 10 you're probably not going to get anyone. So you have to really find the price you feel resonant with and you can change and put up your prices, but you said the perfect word, which is value. And I think that really looking at the value that you're creating for the clients, cause what I see for a lot of people do is think about, you know, let's take your course, for example.
It's like, you know, it's like six or eight weeks or something, so you'd get this many calls and they get the Facebook group or, and exclusive time with me. And so that would be like how much do I roughly think that would be worth? And that's often how people price their offerings as opposed to thinking, okay, this person comes in with this little business, they learn all of the stuff from you guys that go out and they take massive action on all those earnings, you've changed the entire trajectory of the business and their life. And the earning potential in their skills and what they can then create with that. Looking at that difference as opposed to like what you're actually providing into the services is going to make it way easier for you to price what it’s actually worth. Does that make sense?
Lauren:
Yes. I love that.
Emily:
Yah big difference to people. So that's where I would definitely say is look at the actual value that you're creating. The result that you're actually creating in that person's life as opposed to the actual services you're providing. Like, oh, they're getting five phone calls, they are getting xyz? It's like, no, what they're actually getting is the result of all the things that you're actually providing for them and then a totally different life that they'll have because of that. And that is what you're actually creating and will help you feel really resonant and yeah, this is the value that I'm creating.
These are the results that I'm driving. And it's also really powerful for you to get connected to that as a provider because that's what you want to use in all of your copy, in your content, to let your clients know these are the results that we're creating, rather than you get phone calls. It's like people don't care about that and who are they going to be in the end of working with you, you know?
Phil:
Yeah, yeah. It's good to take a step back and realize that. So this idea of tribe, this idea of community has come up in a few of our conversations. Lauren, I'm thinking about when we spoke to Bronte about her Instagram strategy and she said community is her secret weapon. Emily, you'd probably say community or tribe developing that nurturing that is the secret weapon. Can you tell us some ways to do that?
Emily:
Yeah, I mean I think differently and I think more and more now because with the online world, which you can absolutely build community. Obviously there's so many ways for us to actually stay connected. And I think the biggest thing is really focusing on relationships. Relationships in general are the biggest way for us to create ease in our lives. And that's what community is all about. Making sure that we're really building relationships and staying connected with people as a really important part of our life and business. But one of the big things is, and I kind of mentioned that earlier, it's like it's all about you, right? So when you build a tribe or a community, it's like what does that mission? What is that cause? It's also the point that's bringing people together. You will still be a center point of a community that you're building of a favor because you're building it, but it's like what is the common reason that you bring people together?
Why are you bringing people together, what is that core? Connection pays for people to be a part of that community and making that mission something obviously bigger than you. I think that people can connect to something that's motivating to people and inspiring and also it's making sure that that community is connected together. So it kind of goes without saying, but I'm going to say it anyway.
Make sure people inside of that community are actually connecting. So if you're building community, like I use facilitating connection between your clients that you facilitate a connection between people, you know, would you start to be a centre point to connect other people just simply because you want great people to be connected and to know each other, you know, ends up building this amazing community of people around you as well because who doesn't love being around people that are connecting them with great people and looking out for them and making sure that they build other relationships.
Like that's a really valuable thing to do and making sure that you are doing that makes you a center point for lots of other connections as well. So I would say yeah, making sure it's not about you making sure you're making sure people are connected. People are craving that depressive addiction even more and more and there's just so much value and person in it. It's in person meet ups that they can be small, you know, abut it really creates that connection that runs really deep and makes it very loyal and just beautiful because people love it. But I think that that's really, really valuable as well.
Phil:
Yeah, that's super interesting. I'm noticing just in general there's kind of retreat back to the way things were before technology took over and, which I know sounds like weird old fogie of me to say, but like doing things in person and having conversation and putting your phone down for a second to truly engage. Yeah. You know, there's lots of examples that actually continue to come up where it's people are like, but wait, let's just think about how we used to do this before. You know, we were very in our phones. Well, there's a lot to do and it is overwhelming, particularly for people who are starting from scratch. They feel like they're supposed to be pulled in 5,000 directions and it's hard to decide which direction to go. You're very good about pick a direction and go and own it and rock it and be consistent and show up and do what you set out to do. End of story simple. How do you prioritize what gets your attention? Because there's only so many hours in the day.
Emily:
Yeah, good question, I mean I think it changes. Why would I move to LA? So I'm like filling it and transitioning different things and picking out my plans for the year. So it's like figuring all of that out. But I feel like for me, I'm exploring a lot more this year in terms of what I want to do. So for me , what’s now shifted is, okay, go into it. So probably to get into conferences, that has a high priority today because that's something that I'm exploring. So, whereas last year, for example, I was told it came today assistance, but there's this. So like that was a high priority. That was something I knew that the business needed before it could keep growing, so that was a priority to get all of that sorted.
So I think it's just really being tuned into what stage you're at and what really is asking your attention. You know, like if you're really just getting things off the ground, they can show you're building community around you because having amazing people around you that support you is going to be crucial for you. Like your success. Making sure you have a mentor, someone to help support you so that you can, you know, get some of the answers to your questions. You know, for example, I spoke with somebody yesterday who has an earlier stage business, but was focusing on marketing. That's not really what you should be doing right now. That's not the stage that you're at. So I think making sure you have people around that you can ask for support to actually help you know what your priorities are.
Sometimes we need help with that stuff. It doesn't grow with that. It really, I think staying true into where your focus is and if you're growing, your priority is going to be a lot of time and energy to meeting people, building a business, making connections, saying yes to opportunities. Like maybe speaking for free, doing things like that to just keep building. And then later on it might be saying no to certain things because you build this and you now need to be more discerning so you can focus on building the business that different things like that. So I think it's really just knowing what stage you're in and seeing what's being asked of you from that stage.
Phil:
Beautiful. Yeah, it does make sense. You've given us a lot in like half an hour. Hello? Like so many things for people to think about.
Emily:
My nose is just spread out. All stuffed.
Phil:
So is mine. And I hear your voice and I think, Oh my God, mine is on its way, but we've survived. We've done it all three of us with a cold. We've survived. Not only survived, but you've actually given people a lot to think about, not just starting out, but also at any stage in their business to take action, stop thinking, start doing Phil Pallen and the rest of you.
Emily:
Glad I heard that. It resonated.
Phil:
Yeah, for sure. How can people connect with you and see what you're up to and all of that jazz? Emily: Yeah, sure. So consciousboss.com is my website, and consciousboss on Instagram. So that's a pretty good way to keep up with anything that's going on or any events that are happening or anything like that. That's the best place. Or send me a message in Connect. That's also where I've got freebies you can download. Everything's on my Instagram, kind of like replacing the website. Apparently the website is dying. That's something I heard recently. So that's interesting. So Instagram is kind of the new hub, which is kind of wild. But that's a good spot to find me.
Phil:
Yeah, that's a good point. Cause I think maybe less people are looking at your website and making more decisions on your other properties, but it's the exercise of creating a website that actually positions you to communicate yourself, not just on your website, but in your entire business.
Emily:
Oh yeah. And I don't think you can not have a website if you're a business online. Like I think you still need a beautiful website. Like I don't, you know, I don't want anyone to have that idea that you don’t need a website. I still genuinely believe that you do. You can't function as a business without it. Phil: I agree with you because it's almost like the process of creating a website is actually more valuable than the end product that you get from it. It's the process that helps you. Yeah. So That's interesting. Well thank you for such a great chat. I hope that you start to feel better and now people know where to connect with you and just thank you for this great info and we look forward to keeping in touch with you.
Emily:
Oh you’re so welcome. Thank you for having me on. I'm so grateful for both of you.
Lauren:
Are we good?
Phil:
We're good. A lot of good info there. Wow. Thanks Em.
Lauren:
She's very knowledgeable.
Phil:
She is. She's knowledgeable and she's passionate and I'm telling you, this woman takes action. It's really inspiring for me. She's like, publish it. Even if there's a typo, you can fix it later. Get it up. Like who cares if your lighting's not good? Who cares if the connection isn't perfect, just do it. Do you want to know what is funny, she teased me because I said, please come on the podcast as a guest and I have recorded two podcast episodes with her before that I've never published cause I never finished those projects because it wasn't perfect and I'm so happy she didn't bring that up. She could have because it's true. She could have said, I'm going to be on this one, but then you have to publish it.
Lauren:
Oh my God.
Phil:
And so I said to her, I said, Lauren is involved with this and so there's an established workflow that we have to follow. So, but it's funny, right? You build a system that you build a sandbox, you play within that sandbox without the borders, without the perimeter, you don't really know what to do or where, where to go. Right? And so that is kind of the art of figuring out what are the rules I can make for myself. How can I create within those? But don't let perfection paralyze you from creating. That’s the balance.
Lauren:
Yeah. So let's talk about what Emily talked about today. So first is creating a mission. Now this, maybe this isn't surprising to a lot of people, but I don't know, it was a real light bulb moment for me. I don't know about for you.
Phil:
Well tell me the moment. What's the moment?
Lauren:
Well, the moment was that she was saying like, um, if you don't have a mission, you can't build a tribe. You need to stand for something and not just sell, you need to represent something bigger than your group. And that made a lot of sense to me and it actually made me think a lot about like the work that we do, you know?
Phil:
Well yeah. I think that also if we were to take everything that we said on client calls or situations where we're communicating to someone, what's important for them to do this effectively, I almost wish we just take all of that and dump it into a machine that spits back what we say the most. Yeah. I would say what we say the most, well I know what I say, branding isn't about making things look pretty. It's a business opportunity. It's a business strategy that when used effectively can manifest your goals, end of story or recreating in person experience, all of these things like that's our call. I think that's our mission is to help people achieve consistency between what makes them great in real life and just creating that experience online so people get a sense of who they are, why they're great.
Lauren:
Yeah, it's pretty fascinating stuff. And then next she talk about build like not only building the tribe but also keeping that tribe satisfied and not feeling guilty for putting a price on what you're offering. Which is, it's a bit easier for me but it's, it's pricing is not as easy for you because you often have closer relationships with the people we're selling to. But I loved like I loved how Emily was thinking not just about the value of the lesson in the moment but like the long term value someone would get from hearing her lessons in the programs. It was pretty fascinating.
Phil:
Really good. You and I tend to think about the shorter term type stuff.
Lauren:
Like how long it takes.
Phil:
Exactly how long is the video, what are the different ways that people engage. But actually, for example, I had a conversation at lunch today about how we set up our business and how we keep it efficient using Asana, using Slack and using Everhour. And we are so used to that, and you're a big part of designing this workflow a year ago, but someone was like, Oh my God, you've got it all figured out. And it's like, yeah, we do. That in itself could be a course teaching people how we've done that for ourselves. We take it for granted, but actually we would, we could package that and sell it, not based on the number of videos, the length of the videos, but instead on the value, the ability for that piece of something to change that person's life. And I think it would or changed their business.
Lauren:
Yeah, yeah. Like I mean a five minute lesson has the ability to transform someone's income completely. It would be a very valuable five minutes. And so it's just kind of, I don't know, it's just a different way of looking at things and I really appreciate it.
Phil:
It's a fresh perspective and I honestly just love her perspective on a lot of things and that's why she was on the show and we hope that you found it useful. Right? Well we'd love to hear what you think. What did Emily say or what thought did she spark for you that's going to have you taking action on it. Let us know. I'm @philpallen.
Lauren:
I'm @thelaurenmoore.
Phil:
We’re #brandtherapy. Also, if you enjoyed the show, leave us a review, five star, preferably in ITunes that helps other people discover this podcast and we'll be back again soon with a brand new episode. We hope you enjoy this one. We hope you enjoy other ones and we have a lot of fun doing this. So we'll be back with more new branding challenges and experts. Sounds good. We'll see you back next episode right here on Brand Therapy. Thank you for hanging out with us.
Lauren:
See ya next time.
