44. A podcast duo that wants more listeners
Are you regularly creating content but feel like no one’s listening? 👂 In this episode, podcast hosting duo Stephanie and Chelsea are ready to do something different. With a now-perfected podcast workflow, the two creatives are looking to promote their work in a unique way. This episode is a fun reminder that, when it comes to promoting your work, your audience comes first.
Episode transcription
Phil:
Well, hello there. Are you going to talk or what?
Lauren:
Don't you think people get sick of hearing? Well, hello there.
Phil:
Do you want to do it?
Lauren:
Yeah. Hey guys, it's Lauren and Phil.
Phil:
Oh my God. Oh my God.
Lauren:
Hey guys! You're thrown off. I am.
Phil:
I am. Yeah, I do that. Well, hello there. But instead it's, hey guys. Lauren: Hey guys.
Phil:
Who are you, tell them who you are?
Lauren:
I'm Lauren from LA.
Phil:
And I'm Phil. And today I'm in Columbia. How's Lauren in LA these days?
Lauren:
The usual, nothing changes each week for me.
Phil:
Well something does change and that's the fact that we have a brand new podcast episode today. Yeah, that does change.
Lauren:
And this one's Metta. This is a podcast episode about a podcast.
Phil:
Ooh, we are speaking to Stephanie and we're speaking to co-host Chelsea. These are two podcast hosts that decided to call Phil and Lauren to ask about promoting their podcast and actually it's a really good conversation.
Lauren:
It is. It's great. I think even if you don't have a podcast, this episode is useful because it teaches you how to get out of your promoting rut and start thinking a bit creatively about what it is that your audience wants to hear or see. So I think people will like it.
Phil:
Well, and also it's evaluating the content itself, right? It's so we get in our heads, it's like, well, what do we want to put out there to the world? Sometimes the answer to that question doesn't matter as much as the answer to the question, what does your audience want? So it's very much the root of what we talk about today, but I think we should get right to it. Shall We?
Lauren:
Let's do it.
Phil:
Do you want to do this part two?
Lauren:
This is episode 44 with Stephanie and Chelsea. That's always what you do.
Phil:
Don't quit your day job. All right, let's do this.
Chelsea:
I'm Chelsea.
Stephanie:
And I'm Stephanie and we host a podcast together called the Sassy and Uncalled For podcast and we've been doing it for about a year. We have a blast doing it and we're looking for other ways to promote it and gain listeners and all that fun stuff.
Phil:
Wonderful.
Stephanie:
That is probably our major focus right now is just trying to grow our audience as much as possible. We really feel like we've hit a groove with the show itself and some of the extra content that we're creating. So now we're just trying to get in more ears and in front of more eyeballs.
Phil:
Get in more ears and eyeballs baby! I mean that's an interesting conversation in itself is we think about how people are like recording podcasts and then turning it into other things. But I'll just shelf that little conversation for now. I'm super happy to have you guys on the phone. It's a little, well, first of all, it's fun to have the two of you as opposed to just one patient getting Brand Therapy. But this is especially fun because, um, it's fun.
Lauren:
This is couples therapy!
Phil:
And it's fun because this is a topic that we think a lot about and actually I would even say we don't think about enough. So much emphasis goes into the creation of the podcast that by the time, and Lauren you probably agree with me on this,I think we have the same sentiment, we put so much work into actually making it that promoting it sometimes feels like an afterthought.
Lauren:
It's been the same thing for us since like elementary school where Phil and I, we didn't know each other yet, but we used to play the sims around the same age and we would only build the houses and then never actually let them live with the characters and it's pretty much the exact same thing with the podcast. But I'm curious to know for your podcast, what promotions efforts have you done so far?
Chelsea/Stephanie
Well, we've been doing a lot of organic things. We just brought on an intern that we're really excited about that's going to help us sort of reach her network and her demographic. She's a college student in upstate New York, but most of our promotion has been organic. We haven't done any paid outreach or ad placement or anything like that. We're just really working on social media and word of mouth from our guests. Yeah, I think too, we both have very, it's not only just said, my background is in radio as a radio host and Stephanie's done a lot of TV hosting.
I've done some on-camera hosting as well, so we've created a youtube channel recently so that people can watch us do the podcast. We use our social platforms like Instagram, Twitter, Facebook, those are our primary outlets for promoting the podcast. But as you guys probably know, and like you were talking about a little bit, that is time consuming and just being the producers and hosts of our podcast and then getting it out to the audiences on, you know, apple podcasts, Google, Soundcloud, Spotify.
That is a full time job. So then promoting it on top of that is just a lot of work and time that doesn't exist in our life. So that's a challenge.
Phil:
Yeah, I think it's funny when people are like, well, I'm going to start a podcast, and they really haven't either ever done a project similarly scoped and they think it's easy. It is a lot of work. I mean it sounds effortless because it kind of sounds like we just turn on the microphone and call someone and just have a conversation, but there's a lot of planning. There's a lot of time that goes into booking guests, making arrangements.
So much work goes into it. So yeah, I'm sure you guys have felt that. Here's what I want to know. I want to learn a little bit more about why you started the podcast, what the goal is, what maybe we'll start there just for people who haven't listened to it. What makes you guys, unique? Why are you uniquely positioned to grab someone's time, the most precious resource in 2019 and beyond?
Chelsea/Stephanie
I think what's so great about our particular podcast, is we're two women who share a lot of the same views, but we're also different in a lot of ways and we are giving people sort of real world information and talking about real world topics and the kinds of things that people are dealing with every single day. We're doing it warmly boldly, more straight to the point than maybe people are used to hearing other people doing it. We're really uncensored about it. The kind of things that we think, I mean we know everyone is really already thinking in that way and we're doing it in a really interesting city in New York City that a lot of people have either been to, or want to be, or want to go to or live in.
There's millions of people in New York City, so that right there is the golden audience. I think too, between the two of us, we have a really cool network of people from our, we both lived in LA for a long time and made a lot of great connections there, so we have guests on our chefs, we have a guest every week come on the podcast and we give an interesting perspective into different lives of athletes or celebrities. We have astrologers come on the show and talk about being an astrologer.
We talk about topics that a lot of people maybe aren't covering like we did an episode about illness that you get from having breast implants that I'd never heard of in my life. No one is talking about that, so we're really tackling topics that aren't really being covered in other places that we've seen and things that we think people need to know. That's such a good point, Chelsea. I'm so glad you said that because that is one of the reasons for me personally that I wanted to start this podcast together is what's so great about the podcast format is that you have the ability to have that extended conversation?
Because in my everyday job I do a lot of writing or in covering a story for tv, you get a minute and a half to tell a story on our podcast. We had an hour to talk about it. And that's something that I particularly love about the podcast format. So to answer your question, for me, that was a big why in doing this. I love and I just really loved, I was in a radio and felt like city for a long time and have SDC regulations all over me. And I love the format of being able to say things that are uncalled for, inappropriate, uh, without FCC regulations. So that was going to be a field for me to be able to go podcast and talk about sex and dating and relationships and all these things with less of a, a sensor.
Lauren:
I love it. I love it. I have a few ideas. So obviously you guys have probably watched Billy on the Street, right? So you've probably seen clips of it? But it's Billy Eicher, the comedian who runs around New York City with a friend who's a celebrity and then they'll have, yeah, you know, and he's kind of yelling at people and he's so, so, so funny. Phil, have you seen Billy on the Street?
Phil:
I love Billy on the Street and it's one of the few funny pieces of content or series homemade type series that I really honestly loved and became addicted to. And I, it's funny you bring him up. I was thinking about him as well, so I mean I'm interested to hear where you're going to go with this.
Lauren:
Well, so I think there are so many podcasts out there and I'm saying this from a very, very biased place too because we found sometimes when promoting our podcasts, when, when we do promote it, it's hard because yeah, everyone else is promoting their podcasts in the same place and you kind of only got your existing community and it's really tough to get outside of that.
But I think for you, given the format of your podcast and what you're trying to communicate, it would be so fun if you two did some kind of riff on Billy on the Street in your own branded way that gets you out into the streets of New York and you filmed it on Instagram TV just really casually. Your intern could follow you around with an iPhone and it could be related to the episode you're promoting. And speaking, almost like a streeter. And I think the reason why this could be cool is because you two are great conversationalists your topics on each episode really, really change from episode to episode, and you'd also get all the opportunities and exposure that comes with posting on Instagram TV.
Not many people have gone there yet, and I feel like it's just like a gold mine of missed opportunities, especially because people are notified when you set videos on. So that's my starting idea for you.
Chelsea/Stephanie
I absolutely love that idea. I know that you say now that you say comedian I, he was on difficult people, right? That TV show?
Phil:
I think so, yes. Yeah, yeah.
Lauren:
And Parks and Rec. He was so good.
Chelsea/Stephanie
Yeah. Yeah. Edgy. I love that. Totally. It definitely wouldn't be difficult for us to implement something like that. We do sort of, again, I'm not familiar with Billy on the Street, but it sounds like it's sort of like Live in the Field. Just like weird, funny things happening I'm guessing.
Lauren:
Yeah. Yeah. Usually has, oh I'm just going to sound so ridiculous referencing this, but like he came up with this one skit that was called escape from Shonda land and it was an almost like an obstacle course but it was themed with different doctors and firemen. It was making fun of Shonda Rhimes shows and he made different people go through this obstacle course. It was so funny.
But for the other that was a bit more of a production, a production like heavy venture. But what are the other things he does is literally run around with Amy Poehler and have her wearing a mask and asking people really quick questions on the street and then they, you know, keep running or they like they have to guess who's behind the mask.
I think that was one. But I think for you guys you could do like streeters almost kind of like how Amy Schumer did hers at the beginning of her tv show, like talking with different people and it's a good way to meet new people literally. But then also to plug your podcasts in an authentic way and also make those people, you're interviewing feel special on the street too and they'll go to your Instagram and watch themselves. So I feel it's kind of solving a lot of problems in one go.
Chelsea/Stephanie
I love this idea. I love that iphone idea. I would love to go out and be weird in the streets of New York with you Chelsea. We do that anyway but we might as well. I know I was going to say we have like.
Phil:
Well, hold on a second. Cause Chelsea, I think it was you Chelsea that said, I love his personality and so I want to just take one step back rather than looking now cause that is just super creative idea but we need to understand why. So much of when you were describing the podcast was us we, this is what we do, this is our chemistry, this is what we talk about. And I wanted to switch it and sync about what it is they want. What is that need that you guys are satisfying.
Lauren and I talk about this too and I am passionate about this topic because I used to have a podcast called no filter and it was all about me talking to my friends that I thought were interesting and smart and we could learn something from them until I realized that every other podcast was about, you know, interviewing people that people know.
I don't even want to think about your network. I know that you guys both have lots of credentials and experience and you're both hosts and you have awesome jobs. But I want to challenge the four of us right now as a group and not even talk about us, let’s think like a business. What does our audience want?
So when Chelsea, we were talking about Billy Chelsea said, I love his personality. Billy's that is one of the rare instances we've seen in the last few years where a format that a youtuber created was then sold to a network. Normally, right, they scoop the talent and put them into an existing format that is safe for television. But Billy is a good example because he's a pop culture expert. His brand, his pop culture and that format showcased his expertise of pop culture in a comedic way. So good that they kept the format when they brought it to television, which I think is really interesting. We Fall in love with his personality.
The content is another thing, another net that grabs people's attention. So if you don't totally love his personality, you love what he talks about. Like Lauren, you probably like what Billy talks about and I like how he talks about it. So he's a good example of someone that's casting two nets like a good business could like in terms of allowing their customer to identify themselves. So let's think from a business standpoint on this. I mentioned last thought before I opened this up to see what you guys were thinking.
But when I, I cancelled my no filter podcast because I wasn't inspired and it felt like it was what everyone else was doing and I found it too hard to promote and I lost steam. Lauren and I were in Colombia together and I said, she said, are you still going to do the podcast? And I said, I don't think so. She said, well, let's do something that people actually need. And I was like, okay, God, I don't even know where to start.
And so we said, well, what do people pay us money for? They pay us for advice. Okay, well how can we turn that into a format of content that's not only useful for the audience who takes time to listen, but also for us to section out the time of the week to actually brainstorm and speak with others. And then have proof of concept of what we do for a living. That was how this podcast was born. So I just kind of share that little anecdote cause we've got all of our heads in here thinking how can we creatively giving all the different, you know, social media platforms we have available to us at different kind of angle. I love where this is going. IG TV, not a lot of people are using it. Instagram live.
Maybe before you guys record, hop on for five minutes together and start the conversation, tease the conversation, give us a reason to listen to the full show. Anyways, that's enough me talking, I'm excited about this. Those were a few ideas I want to throw out. What do you guys think?
Chelsea/Stephanie
I mean I love it. I love what you're saying and that's a really good point in thinking about the audience and what they want to hear and what makes them laugh and what keeps them entertained. And I think my background is more comedic. So I look at Billy and I'm like, yes, I love that. I love watching him. And like you said, Phil, I love the way he delivers it. It makes me laugh. I think he's hilarious. He could be talking about a rock, and I don't care. I think he's super funny. And so I think for me there's really an entertainment level to it.
I've always wanted to make people laugh and that's what I've done since I started my radio career is just trying to be an entertainer and trying to keep people laughing when life maybe isn't that funny sometimes. And so that's a big part of doing the show for me is, is looking at the audience and, and what's gonna keep them entertained and what's gonna keep them laughing. I think maybe Stephanie has a different agenda than I do for what our audience wants and needs. But that's kind of where my head is at.
Well I think what's great about our show is, so our tagline is everything you need to know to thrive and sometimes just survive delivered with fast and the occasionally uncalled for comments from your two best friends. So that's the thing is your two best are not the same person every single day. And I'm not the same person every single day and
Chelsea is not the same person every single day and what people want from what they're consuming isn't the same thing every single day. So when we were cooking up this podcast, I started thinking about what do people engage with just on social media, for example, to keep it simple. And I created like a little mini list for myself and the things that I came up with were for myself.
The things that I like are things that are inspiring, things that are relatable, things that I see someone post about in there and I'm like, wow, that makes sense for me. I needed to hear that today. We see this post all the time. It's like almost a standard caption now, whoever needed to hear this today, x, y, and z, that kind of thing. Things that are funny and things that are informative. For me, it's really important that we're bringing our audience information that maybe they didn't even know that they needed until they got it.
Because that happens to me so many times in the scope of the day where we’re constantly being bombarded with information and I'll see something and a light bulb will go off and I'll think about how that can impact me positively in some completely unrelated area of my life. So that's really important to me and something that I'm always trying to think about when we're creating our content.
Lauren:
Fantastic. With that in mind, I would love if your Instagram TV series, so to speak, was something like, I'd love if it was called, “what's your problem”? Because that's kind of sassy and funny, but also helpful and informative and you could maybe go around and do streeters where people have 30 seconds to talk about their problem of the day and then you two fun, sassy hosts would give 30 seconds of feedback back to them or 30 seconds of advice.
Chelsea/Stephanie:
Oh, I like that too. I love that, yeah! I think that would be really fun.
Phil:
Sorry, I was just going to say another interesting part of that is that framing it as a problem that someone might have on the street, there is a chance that someone has that problem at home on their computer and they're on youtube typing that exact query. So one of the things that people don't think enough about is podcasting and SEO of podcasts, right? Like there's a chance that someone could find you guys, discover your personality, you know, you're trying to really curate content that you know they're going to care about, but that's not going to matter if we don't get them as a listener first.
So to think, how can we structure the content that also considers a search term that people might be typing into Google to find an answer and then discover you and go, oh, this is interesting, I'm going to subscribe. Just wanted to add that point.
Chelsea/Stephanie:
Oh yeah. SEO is a huge administrative wormhole, but I'm learning a lot about it in this podcast journey. I think that's really great. And, and doing the, what's your problem like you were talking about Phil makes it about the listener, not about us than what we want and what we wanted to deliver. It makes it about them. And wait, how can we help you guys? Like how can we talk about your problem and maybe make it lighthearted or maybe dive into the heavy part of it, whatever it might be, but make it about their problem and be able to answer the question, entertain them, be informative, um, and make a fun segment out of it. So I think that's a really great idea.
Lauren:
Yeah. You’re two friends making new friends.
Chelsea/Stephanie:
I was going to say I'm also just very into that because that's sort of how we format our shows. We have a little kicker like that, like for our “health and wells” segments. But all of our health and wellness segments start with a little kicker. So that's very on point just to our branding style to have something start with what's your problem and then have it be the problem.
Phil:
Cool. Well this is I think just an interesting conversation that is leading me to brainstorm even for our own podcast. It's like how do we create without having to reinvent the wheel? How do you create opportunities for people to discover you and hopefully fall in love with you, right? It's, you can't just make a podcast and upload a podcast and do the same thing over again and expect different results.
So I'm excited to see you guys take what's familiar. Even getting on camera I think is really cool because then people can see you. I did something as simple as uploading a video on LinkedIn last week asking for guests for the podcast and it did really well. Video on LinkedIn is incredible and it's something a lot of people don't do. So let me just add that tip in as we wrap video on LinkedIn because especially if people have already started listening and then they see your face, it's like seeing the face of the radio host you grew up listening to.
It's kind of exciting because it's always kind of hidden, right? So that especially with the both of you having backgrounds in hosting and TV I think is an interesting element in itself. You've got a lot of work to do. I'm like, gosh, it's exciting though. And you guys, you'll have to report back to us.
Chelsea/Stephanie
Yeah, I know, right? I also love, can I just say I love that this recommendation comes with us getting out into the real world and engaging with people because there's nothing more fun than that. So I love that.
Phil:
I love that for you guys. I think it's going to be great and even, okay, final one last thought before we wrap, but even the act of us having this conversation is indicative of how a lot of youtubers have grown their brands the fastest way. And I've talked to a lot of youtubers that have grown successfully. The fastest way that they always say that they grow is through collaboration on Youtube. So the fact that you guys are taking your podcasts and your hosted personalities, combining it with us right now really is a collaboration in some way. You know, what you might see on Youtube. So that in itself is kind of cool. So maybe there's other opportunities to collaborate with other podcasts. Um, oh my gosh. So many seeds that we've planted now you have to grow these beautiful seeds into a flower.
Chelsea/Stephanie:
Oh, I love our conversation. It's been so great. You're so helpful. We appreciate it. I'm excited about it.
Phil:
Thank you guys for your time and good luck with everything and promise us that you'll call us back and let us know how everything is developing. Wonderful. Thank you Stephanie and Chelsea for your time and for being on Brand Therapy and we look forward to catching up with you soon.
Chelsea/Stephanie:
Thank you.
Phil:
Okay, well I like where that conversation ended. I was trying to just kind of politely steer it in the way of the conversation needs to be less about what we're doing. We as the content creators and more about understanding our audience, right? With hosts and with actors, personal brands, and I know this role, that's where I started. It's always about perfecting the presentation, the means of which we reach the audience. But actually the important part is the business side of this, which is how do we not just reach the people we already know, but how do we make this appealing to someone who knows nothing about us? You know, you can spend all day crafting an episode, you know, content, but it isn’t going to help other people find it. So that was kind of where I was going with that. But I love how excited they were when we ended off. What do you think?
Lauren:
I think some headway was really made. I mean, I feel this a lot. I don't know about you, but it's so easy to get wrapped up in your own preferences when you're doing something creative. And I think that maybe, hopefully our call helped help these two co hosts take a step out of the work that they're doing and just really think back to the overall purpose behind their podcast.
Phil:
Yeah, right. And solving a problem. I love that conversation around your idea of like satisfy a problem. Someone on the street create something that also might benefit someone who's looking it up online. These are the things we have to think about now. SEO as it relates to our podcast, collaboration's how do we cultivate an audience and then collaborate with someone else to form a win win to get in front of someone else's audience.
Visuals, you know, video the days are gone where you can just create a podcast and you've got built in listeners, even from naming the podcast and and painfully like Stephanie said she's becoming an expert at SEO. But even writing the episode descriptions, you're thinking about key words. They can go on forever and you could spend days and days and days on all this stuff and there's only so many hours in the day. Just kind of prioritize, you know, or delegate, ask for help and just kind of figure it out and just always keep that in the back of your mind while being yourself and creating that kind of natural content that makes podcasts great.
Lauren:
Definitely. And for anyone listening, if you are thinking about creating a podcast, congratulations first of all, but second of all, really keep these things in mind when you're planning because once you start, it's, you can only add to what you've already established. So make those initial branding decisions, good ones.
Phil:
Take it from someone who started a podcast and then stopped because I didn't really think about those things from the beginning. And then you and I created this one, not just for the benefit of other people hearing us do what we do, but also I have to say, having a sanctioned time in our schedule to get creative, to reflect, to help people we wouldn't normally be able to reach and to even now start talking to experts, to, for us to learn.
So it's um, yeah, it's very exciting. We want to know if you've taken time to listen to this episode. Hey, tell us, don't just be a silent listener, a silent, a quiet bystander. Actually, tell us, tell us that you took the time. Let us know what you think. Did you find something useful? Send us a tweet. I'll retweet it out to a bunch of people. Well I’m @thephilpallen.
Lauren:
I'm @thelaurenmoore
Phil:
#brandtherapy. Our eyeballs are on that Hashtag, Instagram, Twitter. That's where you'll find us most often. Thank you for hanging out with us for a few minutes today, and we look forward to hanging out with you again on an upcoming episode of Brand Therapy. We'll see you then.
Lauren:
See you next time,
Have you tried any of these tips for promoting your work? Comment below!