83. How do you manage clients like a pro? (f. Janet Mactavish)
How do you make customers feel like a VIP? ✨ Our guest Janet Mactavish, a luxury travel designer, dishes all she knows about creating a red carpet experience for clients. From tackling correspondence to dealing with tantrums, this episode is a must-listen for anyone trying to keep customers happy at all times.
Episode transcription
Phil
Hey listener before we get into this episode, which I know you're gonna love, I want to tell you about something super exciting. I just this week launched my brand new course Instagram Mastery. This course is going to help you with everything you need to know on the go-to-it platform breaking down each vertical, stories, feed, IGTV and Live. And because you're listening to this podcast, we want to give you a special little promo with the promo code GET99 you will get this course for $99 instead of $299 this week only. So go check it out philpallen.co/instagrammastery for more. Now onto the episode.
Phil
Hello, hello, hello. Welcome to Brand Therapy. I'm Phil.
Lauren
And I'm Lauren.
Phil:
And we are your Brand Strategists today, your podcast hosts, we're going to help you position, build and promote your brand. So that's what we do on this podcast. We're happy you're here today. You picked a great episode. I say that a lot, but you really did. This episode is a new topic for us. We are talking all about customer experience. So if you're a luxury brand, listen up, folks. And also, if you're not a luxury brand, I feel like this still applies to you.
Lauren:
Yeah, we all know that. The experience you have as a customer can make or break you giving your business to that organization ever again. We have actually a former client today. She is an expert in hospitality. She is a travel designer who works with very, very high end clientele to plan extravagant trips around the world for people with high standards. So Janet is really an expert when it comes to thinking of the little details, creating a positive experience and really ensuring that your clients are happy.
Phil:
And branding is like one of those opportunities for you to really make an impact on someone. Right? So yes, it's your logo and your website and all of these visual components that we talk a lot about, but it's also things like the small details. How do you wrap a project? How do you make someone feel special even if they're not your client yet? Do you respond quickly to their emails? Even if you don't have time to respond fully to them, can you send them an email and let them know that you've received their message and you'll be back to them soon. Right? When that comes up in this conversation, I feel like branding fits in perfectly with this topic.
Lauren
Yes, totally. I think of even brands. I love myself like Glossier. I know that if I'm disappointed with a Glossier product, and I talked to their customer service representative about it, I'm going to be refunded and I get to keep the product I don't like, no questions asked. It makes me feel good. It makes me feel safe. And it actually makes me want to spend more, which I have.
Phil:
Absolutely my version of that is T Mobile. T Mobile has the best customer service. How can someone, like, a cell phone company and I'm amazed that T Mobile, their customer service, anytime I need something, I open up my DMS on Twitter and I drop them a message and they are so kind. So that's my brand, go-to when it comes to customer experience.
Lauren:
Great. Well, I think we should just start.
Phil:
Let's start. Here's our conversation with Janet Mactavish.
Phil:
I always say and Lauren, you agree, right. The best part of our job is that we have unprecedented access to conversations with fascinating people.
Lauren:
Totally. It's like a window into another world.
Phil:
Completely. And we kind of get to play vicariously. And that is such a fun part of our job as we're helping these kinds of people build their brands. So one of those people, where it has been so much fun to get a little window into this world of amazingness, and luxury and fantasy, and all of this is our dear friend and our client, Janet Mactavish, who is a luxury travel designer, a very big warm welcome to you, Janet.
Janet:
Thank you for the introduction.
Lauren
I have to give Lauren credit for this. Lauren is the one that said we really need to do an episode that talks about experience, being thoughtful as you're working with your customers and clients. And literally, you were the first person that came to mind when it came to this because you do it. so well. Lauren, do you want to elaborate on why we chose Janet for this specific episode?
Lauren
So as a luxury travel designer, Janet is responsible for crafting unforgettable perfect vacations and business trips around the world for people who are probably pretty demanding. That's my guess, given your clientele. I'm sure they're wonderful, though data, but these people are particular. And you've always struck me as someone who really understands how the little details add up to create an incredible client experience. And so for this episode, I was hoping that we could kind of figure out your secret sauce for being amazing at predicting clients preferences and handling difficult situations and all that.
Janet:
Sounds exciting.
Lauren:
So I'm imagining that for our listeners in particular, ones who are maybe freelancers just starting out, or maybe they've got a growing agency themselves, your expertise will be helpful with navigating clients because they're all different. Why do you think it's important to provide an experience to clients and not just a service?
Janet:
Well, there’s a saying that people will forget what you did, but they will never forget how you made them feel. So a service could be anything from like a supermarket to a petrol station, they all provide a service, but you never go away thinking, wow, that was an amazing experience. And experience is taking your client on a journey that starts from the first point of contact, in my case, right the way through the whole planning, while they are away on their travels, creating special moments when they are away, checking in on them, and following up with them together. So it's a longer journey. It's not a pop in pay for your petrol and leave service. It's about hand holding and just making them feel part of what you're designing.
Lauren:
Do you pick up on or make assumptions about things that your clients would like or don't like when you first have initial conversations? For example, if someone's like, I'm super busy all the time, we have to keep this call quick. Is that an indicator to you that oh, this person might want to be relaxing on their vacation, even if they're not telling me about it.
Janet:
Possibly I tend to find the ones that want to be super quick, actually also generally tend to be super quick on holidays and they want to do a million things. And you tend to have to rein them in a bit because you'll create an itinerary and they'll want to do this, they want to do this and I see that and I want to hear. And then what you find is you create what you think is their itinerary but you kind of slow it down a little bit so they have time to relax. Normally what happens is a few days into the trip, they decide, you know what, I'm just feeling so chilled now, I actually don't want to do anything tomorrow. So when I designed itineraries that tend to be quite flexible.
And also guides that I work with tend to pick up on little things like they're tired, they want to get back early, or they feel like they want to go see something else. And the guide will say, I know this is a local exhibition that might interest them. So you listen to what they say. But also this is their downtime, they work hard and they need the time to relax. So ticking everything off on a box is probably not the best idea. And they won't come back to work feeling refreshed. So you kind of steer it, let them think it's their idea that.
Phil:
Yeah, there's a big difference between what someone thinks they want to do on a trip versus what they actually want to do when they finally arrive in that moment. I'm thinking, Lauren, of like, when we've traveled together, that kind of happens, you are more organized, you like to have an agenda. And I tend to just, go with the flow, but I think we've combined right.
Lauren:
Yeah, I always like to identify three things that are really important for me to do: figure out the dates for those and then everything else is loosey goosey. That's me living large, you know.
Janet:
But you find that the more you work with clients, the more you understand how they're going to work. But it normally quite often starts off with, say, for example, people that say, I want to rent a private villa, and we will have it self catered. They don't hardly ever want private villas to themselves, what they would like is a private villa inside a hotel resort. Sometimes they think they know what they want, but they need a little bit of steering.
Lauren:
So how often do you communicate with your clients?
Janet:
It depends who it is. I tend to check in with them fairly regularly just to say hi, how are you doing. Whenever I'm traveling for personal reasons, I always look at places and things and think, oh, this person would enjoy that or this restaurant or that view or this show is on. So then I've dropped them a quick note to say this exhibition is on, are you free in October? I'll be like sending a postcard, I suppose.
So it's not constantly what we're doing next, it's more along the lines of just checking in to say hi, and update them on the current trips and how they're going but also to make little suggestions and to make them realize that you think of them. Or I send them little photos from my phone. Look at this, you’d love it.
Lauren:
Oh, that's nice. It's more of a collaboration right than a constant sales pitch.
Phil:
Do you have a way, even if it's as simple as like giving yourself permission to spend time and energy surprising or delighting your customers. So I think about people maybe not even specifically in travel, but people and I relate to this that get caught up in their day to day list of things that they need to do, right. By the end of the day, if I just follow my list, I forget that I should pop a postcard in the mail and send it to a client. I don't make enough time to do those things because I'm busy working and billing and answering emails and whatever else it is I do. First of all, how do you do it? How do you make time for those things? And how do you recommend others incorporate that into their workflow?
Janet:
I don’t allocate time to do it. It just pops in my hand
Phil:
It's your personality that is part of this. So for those who don't have this personality, they need to learn from you.
Janet:
Because for me, my clients are not just like another number. It's not like Mr. Mrs. T or Mr. And Mrs. B, I've taken time to know them, most of them with me for a long time. They're kind of like friends. So it'd be like, say when you go somewhere fail, and you're like, Oh my god, Lauren would love this, you send you a quick picture. It's just like that. And the more you do it, the more natural it becomes. And I think by having a small client base, it's quite easy to do that. Because you get to know each one who likes what, who likes architecture, who likes opera. I think I know who just exactly would like that. And I think that's because having a small client base gives me that headspace to be able to think creatively for each client.
So for example, I Adam have a couple who went to New Zealand for three weeks and I know that he likes fishing. My partner in New Zealand is married. And at the end of the trip, she went to go and see them at their lodge and she did a marriage presentation ceremony and she presented him with a carved piece of jade. And a fish hook that was one of the pieces. And I can't, I can't, for the life of me remember what the other two pieces were. But whenever I see him, he says, it's on the wall in my office, and it always reminds him. And it's just something special because I know how much he likes fishing and it was something that he wouldn't think of doing. And because it was so personalized and done by her presented nicely.
Phil:
Lovely. That's a great example.
Lauren:
How do you put clients at ease if something goes wrong?
Janet:
Well, first of all, I listen to them. The worst thing you can do if someone's having a bad day, or something's going wrong, is interrupting them when they're trying to tell you what they're upset about or what's going on. So listen to the whole thing. Address each of the concerns that they're worried about, and reassure them that you're going to take care of it. Then I work with my local partners to find a solution for whatever it is as soon as possible. But we'll also try to give them a timeframe. So I might say why don't you and your wife go play tennis or go to the spa, do a tour or something, and my partner and I will work on it while you're out.
And then I'll speak to the end of the day and tell you where we're at with a solution and what the options are. And then they tend to think, wow, that's it. I'm not using my energy, she can do it.
Lauren:
Yeah, you take it off their plate, reassure them that it will be handled, and give them a time that they can look forward to, or they'll get an update.
Janet:
And whether it got down to it might not be the final resolution, but they'll have an update. Also, because my business is just me when I have people go in various bits of it. So there's always one point of contact. So they're not going to ring the office and speak to this person today. And then leave tomorrow and find out what's happening with my case, or that person's out today, you actually passed something at someone else. So there's an ownership to it, which is obvious because I'm the only person here but that was always the case in past jobs. If someone comes to me with a problem, I'll always take ownership of it and say I'm dealing with it. You have my name, and you're welcome to come back to me.
And you know, I will always go back to them when I say I'm going to even if it's just to say, look, it's taking a little bit longer than we thought, go and have your dinner sleep on it. We're trying to get a resolution by tomorrow. If it's that kind of thing.
Phil:
Just to have someone take care of it. I experienced that recently. This is not travel related, but I was in Florida giving a presentation. And I was so busy back to back with presentations that I forgot I was supposed to make my YouTube video live that week. Every Tuesday, I launch a new YouTube video. Normally, I spent too long myself in Canva designing the thumbnail, but actually a Miner who helps us with our YouTube strategy said, Phil, I know you're busy, let me go ahead and make that YouTube thumbnail for you so you don't have to worry. And I was, dumbfounded. I was like, really? I'm just not used to that. I honestly think people are not used to that. But I think one of the most important takeaways already from this conversation. Try to make your clients lives easier.
If you really put their needs first, which is so important, particularly when someone's on vacation, if you really put their needs first, then what you're doing should be making their lives easier. And that is received so well, I think.
Janet:
Yeah, but now I have a reputation with a number of my clients, Janet will fix it! I left my glasses in seat number 1k on the last flight, or I left my jacket in this hotel, can you sort it out? Okay, just start okay. And I just bought the next flight and then by the time they land for the next flight back in, say, Switzerland, there'll be a message saying, I've got DHL couriering your jacket, your glasses, whatever. And you should have to pick it up on Thursday, whenever it is. Or alternatively, if clients are popping around all over the place, I sometimes have stuff couriered to me, until I know my clients can sit still long enough somewhere for me to be able to send the things over. I actually have a FedEx account just for that.
Lauren:
Do you really?
Janet:
Yes. Oh my god it is the only thing I have it for.
Lauren:
That's so funny. Now your job is an interesting combination of client management but also actually like work planning and actually making the trips come to life. Do you have any tips for juggling your inbox and your phone? Are you constantly checking emails and messages as they're coming in? Do you have a schedule that you follow? How do you balance the act of managing clients and working?
Janet:
That's something I really don't have a schedule for. I confess, if I'm in the middle of doing something, I put my phone on silent face down. I look at it because if one of my particular clients WhatsApp me and say, hey, I've missed my flight or something. So I do have to check it occasionally for them. I try to manage the boundaries around when I'm contactable. And if it's something I really need to concentrate on, I'll be like, I'm tired out from 10 to 12 today, I can come back to you after that. But always, if someone messages me in between that two hour slot, so when I'm working on an itinerary, I won't go back to them straight away and send it later. I'll go back to 12.
Phil:
No, but I think you have an ability to prioritize really well. And also, I don't think you should have any shame about saying I'm tied up or I'm in a meeting. Sometimes that's what you need to say, to be able to focus on getting the job done. Lauren, and I do the same thing. We'll be the first to admit it, right. But if something urgent comes in, and it's a client, whose relationship or their engagement supports that immediate response, then we do it. We adjust course, but sometimes it's funny because we all relate to that shame of like, Oh, I have to tell them, I can't do it now. Because if you keep doing everyone's things now you're not going to get anything done for yourself.
Janet:
Exactly. So sometimes I have to push back. There was I was out for dinner with another client and I had all these messages from him, right. And he's standing in a boatyard in Norway and he says, I need you to find me a boat to rent for tomorrow. And I'm sorry, I'm with a client for dinner. And I said, I'm with a client for dinner, sorry, I can't. It's not because I need it tomorrow. But you're standing in the boat. And he says about the data. They don't have any boats. I'm like, Okay, well, I'll have to deal with this later tonight or tomorrow morning. So you have to push back. And the thing was, he was in the boat yard and they didn't have a boat available. So he was asking me to get something that wasn't possible.
Sometimes you have to push back and say, okay, sometimes I can work magic, but not always. And sometimes you have to manage their expectations about when they can beat you and how quickly you'll jump. Okay, if you've missed a flight, I will jump out and change everything. But sometimes clients send me messages that are more like a stream of consciousness. Like, is there a cruise I can do that I can go around the world and I can take my car with me? I mean do you need an answer right now. And then they will send another message about something else. And you're like, really, I, you actually expect answers to this now.
So you have to let it play on until they finish because sometimes it's just the thought of something that is such a quick note.
Lauren:
How do you manage expectations with your clients in terms of communicating like, Is that something you go over at the beginning of working together?
Janet:
The clients the pay me on a retainer have access to me. I normally tell people I don’t work weekends. So the clients that are on a retainer have more access, but they also tend to be fairly respectful. So I know that certain events that both of these clients will do, and certain times a fee, when they might call me I'm like eight or nine o'clock at night, but it's for a particular event, so that's fine. But generally I try to manage it that I will operate between these hours. If they message me, and I say, can we chat, then I can decide yes or no. If I want to say, or I'm sorry, I'm busy this evening, I could be busy watching something on tv. But I might have had a really bad day and just need a bit of time out. And like I said, sometimes the messages are reactive, they'll see something or they want to change something, and they’re only messaging you because it's in their head.
So you'll have to learn to recognize what stuff actually needs to be dealt with immediately.
Lauren:
How quickly do you respond to emails and texts? Usually, everyday?
Janet:
Every day, I try to do most emails within I would say, three or four hours, even if it's just to say hi, got your email but tied up with something to come back to the full response later.
Phil:
I remember hearing that from you on a strategy call and ever since and it's such a, it feels like it should be common sense. But it was such a good reminder. Even if you don't have the answer, you don't have time to pull the answer yet to simply click reply and say, I'll come back to you with all the details, that make the world of a difference. Like I don't you remember Lauren when Janet said that? And I was like, Oh my god, I should be doing that. You're better at that than I am. But I've gotten better since she described that.
Lauren:
I find for me personally, I'm not sure if you're like this to Janet, but I need time to think about how I'm going to be composing an email because when I respond, I want it to be organized. I want it to be easy for the client to understand the reference later. And that takes me time to work out generally what that's going to look like. So for me, the reminder that I can reply to someone, acknowledge them and manage their expectations of what I'm going to get back to them. I don't necessarily have to answer your question right away and that makes me feel a lot better.
Janet:
Well, that puts you in control, but it also is good for them. Because otherwise we're sitting there typing that thing because on the desk waiting for you to respond, yeah, I get an email. They're like, hi, Lauren says she's in a meeting, I'll come back to you three or four hours after my meeting with a full response. And then go right. Okay, let's go out for lunch. now. Stop drumming my fingers. But otherwise, if it's something, it's something that they think needs dealt with now, they just sit there getting increasingly agitated. And then when they get this thing back, it says, well, so it's nice. So it's always it's not like I'm too busy to deal with this. Now. It's, so I'm a bit tired of dealing with such and such a minute, I'll come back to you as soon as possible for a reply. And it kind of lowers maybe anxiety levels, if it's something that they were stressing. And also, if their message was reactive, and frustrated with something, it gives them time to cool down, calm down.
Phil:
I mean occasionally, you'll get people who are not necessarily angry at you, they're just projecting their struggles at your head with a bazooka, basically. And you're, you know not to take that literally. It's more just like I'm on your team. Let me help you work through this and find a solution.
Janet:
If they ring and they're having like a rant or something, the best thing to do is to leave them for a while, because I have, I didn't get out once one morning, and there was a voicemail that was left at about two o'clock in the morning. And it was from a lady who was getting a flight out from New York who didn't get a window seat. And she was at the desk and she was shouting at me, you have to do something. I told you I wanted a window seat.
First of all, I can't do anything. She's at the gate. Secondly, when I got up later in the morning, and in time for her to land back in London, I didn't really send her an email that showed her the seating plan of the aircraft explaining that there weren't window seats. You have to time things well.
Phil:
Do you think that comes from experience dealing with people? Because actually, I know for a fact that if Lauren was in that same position, she wouldn't have been able to sleep well that night because a client was unhappy with her. I think Lauren, you still would have dealt with it. Similarly, you wouldn't have replied right away, or you may have just to put them at ease. But you would take that personally.
Lauren:
Because I want to do a good job. Our services aren't cheap, and I feel a responsibility to deliver.
Phil:
But to Janet's point it had nothing to do with you and you did what you can prior to that moment. So what would you have done Lauren in that situation?
Lauren:
I probably would have replied immediately showing them their mistake. Honestly, but that is not good.
Phil:
No. And how I would have dealt with it. I would have given it to Lauren to deal with.
Lauren:
But then I would have been up all night thinking about them on their sad flight with the aisle cart bumping their foot and not yet another window to look out of.
Janet:
Yeah, it takes practice. I used to jump more I used to have my friends beside the bed and they can call if it's an emergency. If it's an emergency, I'll be all over it. I'll be out of bed, dealing with whatever it is. But if you're just having a hissy fit, because you haven't got the seat that you wanted when I already told you that seat wasn't available, I'm not here to be screamed out at 2:30 in the morning. It is not reasonable and I know she was letting off steam but she's not a client anymore.
Phil:
Okay, hold up. I love this conversation with Janet, but let's tell you about something exciting.
Lauren:
Well, Phil, you've got a brand new course that's all about Instagram. Why don't you tell our listeners about it?
Phil:
Yes. So we've talked about some of our courses on the past episodes. But this one I'm really excited about.
Lauren:
Is that your favorite?
Phil:
It's hard for me to pick favorites. Content Mastery is definitely up there as well. I also like Email Mastery, so I guess no, the answer is no, I can't pick a favorite. But Instagram Mastery we just took live this week. It is the longest course it took me over 100 hours to make to make.
Lauren:
Really?
Phil:
Yes, it did over 100 hours, because I had to do a lot of research, right? Instagram makes updates, the game changes. So it's not just like putting together a course it's making sure that everything is different, unique. And as we've talked about, our courses are designed for busy people. So there's all kinds of information online that you can get about Instagram for free or next to free. My courses are different. They are for people that don't want to waste time or have endless hours to learn. I tell you only what you need to know to grow and I break down each platform by vertical. So feed, stories, Live and IGTV as well as bonuses. They're awesome 100 evergreen content ideas, an Instagram Live episode template, a dimension cheat sheet and a detailed three page hashtag worksheet.
And if that's not enough, folks, we got one more bonus. That was fun to do right there. I made a Canva template. Because one of the new features in the latest update is you can share media from your camera roll directly on the screen while you're doing a Live and I call that a presentation. But you need to know the dimensions and you need to know how it works, so I give people a template. Very cool.
Lauren:
Now one thing I want to add is that this is not going to be a boring, super, super beginner Instagram course that's like, this is how you post on your feed. No, this is for I think all levels of Instagram, even if you've got a massive following on the platform, there's still so much that you can learn from this course. You've done an excellent job putting this together. Phil.
Phil:
Thank you in the beta launch, I had someone with over 50,000 followers take it and said, wow, I can't believe how many new things I just learned from you. There you have it, folks. So check it out. philpallen.co/instagrammastery all one word will take you to the course landing page for podcast listeners for this week only. So if you're listening late, tough cookie, honey. GET99 in all caps is the promo code to make it $99 instead of $299. So go get it. Alright, let's go back to our conversation with Janet.
Lauren:
Do you have any advice for freelancers or virtual agencies that are managing clients in like a creative fields, I think the things that client gets clients get frustrated with the most are people not listening, interrupting you know, if a client is trying to tell you something and you're constantly interrupting with what you think are solutions without listening to the whole issue? Is it more frustrating for them?
Janet:
So I would say the first thing to do is listen to people's requests, listen to their tone, and learn to anticipate things like what they can ask for.
And think about while they're talking to you can think about a note down ideas in your head but let them finish. It is a frustrating thing if you normally have to let them finish then you emphasize and then after each call, email confirming everything that you discussed any points that were had a reason confirm what your next actions are going to be and when they next expect to hear from you and get back to them when you've told them. Because there's nothing more frustrating than saying, I'll be back to you by the end of the day, or three days later, I still haven't heard from you. The client’s gonna walk. And again always reply promptly to messages, even if it's just to say, got your message, I'll come back to you. Never, ever let a client have to chase you to reply to something they sent you. Just gently push back. I'm kind of busy, I will come back to you and then go back to them when you say.
Lauren:
Yeah, I guess clients don't necessarily expect to be your number one client, but they do expect to be respected. And that's why acknowledging them does wonders, acknowledging them actually might be even more important than like solving their problem right away.
Janet:
My one tip for anything would be listen. And also when solving problems, people always like to think that solutions are their idea. So when you solve a problem, try to give three solutions, and they can choose and you can work solutions to be such that they will go for the one that you think is the best.
So for like in hotels, someone's had a really bad day, I used to get this all the time. And you can say, right? Well, I can take 10% off your dinner bill this evening. Or I can give you a free bottle of wine with your meal. Or I can take 10% off your next stay with an upgrade subject to availability. And here's my business card with my name on, so you speak to me when you make your next booking, because you want them to come back. You want them to stay with you. And what I tend to find is the people who do that, they think that you're their best friend, and they also become like your brand ambassador, because they'll be like, Oh, I must go to this hotel, but I only speak to him, because she'll look after everything. So then I used to always get people going, oh, I'm coming for our anniversary or coming to propose to my wife and I said you were really good. It is a game changer.
But you kind of steer them through these three tiers and they might think what? Some people will have a bottle of wine and I will never stay here again. And then I actually got a special event coming up. So yeah, if I could just call you before I come. And then when they do come, there's a welcome letter from you in the room and you might have put a bottle of wine or you might have put some flowers in there. She really cares. And I swear they will tell everybody.
Phil:
That's so smart, amazing. That's such a good example of turning a grumpy person into a repeat customer. Actually, not just a customer, but a brand hero or a brand advocate, a super fan. A big thing we've talked about is just communication and just the way that you frame things to make people feel important and to make them feel listened to. Kind of the name of the game. I think like you do so many of these things just inherently as part of yes, your experience working in this industry, but also your personality. So I think for people that don't think or act as intuitively as you, Janet, I think this episode has been really insightful to help kind of actively be aware of situations and how you have control over them. Really cool.
Janet:
And try to put yourself in the client's position. That's always a good thing.
Phil:
I'm all fired up with ideas. You too, Lauren.
Lauren:
Yeah, I'm looking at my inbox ready to reply.
Phil:
Me too! I have to go to my inbox and let people know that they've been heard. Janet we have thoroughly enjoyed being tied up with you for the last half hour to reflect on some of these ideas. And I think our listeners will really appreciate you sharing these. Where can people find you online?
Janet:
I would say probably the best place and the most active place for me is a Facebook group called luxury travel talk. A few questions for you to answer to be allowed to get in but quite easy and it's more because I'm lazy and I want to know what to say.
Travel is a great space and you don't have to travel at a luxury level all the time. Luxury means different things to different people. So it could be luxury could be a tent on the beach in the south of France have no Wifi, or it could be five star, but everyone has something to contribute and everyone knows a great little pie shop or the best vineyard or the perfect place for pasta somewhere. So I think everyone can contribute. And it's just it's a great place to share to learn things to have positive inspiration and it's also food.
Phil:
Yes, great. So also I want to let people know about your website, janetmactavish.travel and your Instagram handle is the same janetmactavish.travel. That's where you can connect with Janet online. To connect with us, I'm @philpallen Lauren is @thelaurenmoore #brandtherapy to continue the conversation and by the way if you enjoyed this episode, we hope you did, take a few extra seconds and hop over to the iTunes Store and leave us a review hopefully five star and let us know. That helps other people discover this podcast that we work so hard to create.
Janet, such a huge thank you to you for making this episode so awesome. We've loved having you on Brand Therapy and let's just keep in touch.
Janet:
Sounds like a plan. It's been a pleasure. Thank you.
Phil:
Thank you, everyone. Thanks for listening and we'll see you back on the next episode of brand therapy.
Lauren:
See you then.
