90. How do you remain authentic on social media? (f. Giselle Ugarte)
Do you have challenges being "you" on social media? 🤗 If so, you're not alone! In this Brand Therapy episode, Lauren and Phil meet with social media expert Giselle Ugarte to discuss authenticity on social media. Giselle breaks down her advice for finding your voice, thriving on TikTok, and more! For inspiration on giving your social media channels some life and fun, listen to this dynamic episode. (And a bonus: Something that's never happened in the history of Brand Therapy takes place!)
Episode transcription
Phil
Well, hello there. Welcome to Brand Therapy. I'm Phil.
Lauren:
And I'm Lauren.
Phil
And this is the podcast where we help you position, build, and promote your brands. We’re happy you’re here. Today we're going to focus on that third little mention little ditty that I said about promotion, social media specifically. And we have a really, really smart little cookie with us today.
Lauren:
Giselle is a freaking powerhouse. I loved this conversation with her.
Phil
Let me tell you a fun little story. And I can't actually remember if I told you this story in the actual podcast interview so I'm gonna in case I tell her twice and then tell it really short. But Javi, my partner in life, Lauren you’re my partner in business, certainly not in life, is on TikTok and says, you need to follow this girl. He then shows me his screen and it's Giselle. And I'm like, No, what? I know her. And he's like, What do you mean? She's a friend of mine. And it was just one of those hilarious full circle moments about, yes, we all exist in real life. But we also exist online. And boy does Giselle exist online platforms like Instagram, especially platforms like TikTok. She's such an innovator in this space. And we talked to her about that. And we've talked to her about so much more.
Lauren
Yeah, I think that just has a really fresh perspective on social media, particularly on TikTok. And it was just such a fun, a fun time. So let's just get right to it.
Phil:
Let's get right to it. At the time we recorded this Reels hadn't been launched yet, but a lot of what we talked about with Giselle is directly applicable to Instagram reels, but let's get to it. Here's our conversation with Giselle.
Lauren:
I'm so excited to have you on Brand Therapy. I know that you've got such a huge following on TikTok. It's literally insane. So I've got a whole bunch of questions for you on that front. But I guess to kick things off, maybe you could give me some background about your area of expertise? How did you get into TikTok, first of all, and then we will dig into that.
Giselle:
Oh, my goodness, where to even begin? I think it really all started when I graduated from college in 2011. And I wanted to be on television. That's how I met Phil. We actually took TV hosting classes together.
Lauren:
Oh, did you really read?
Giselle:
Yeah. With Marki. I was given the advice from a mentor in college that I should learn how to do everything. And so while I was in college and then immediately after college since you know, you can't get hired to be on TV unless you are on TV or video, I started making YouTube videos. And back then no one really knew what YouTube was. So YouTube was not a verb back then. I also started my own blog, which at that point, people were like, what, what, what is a blog it was before everyone in their mom had a blog. And it was ultimately just a place for me to practice for me to understand how to put stories together and learn how to produce. I was shooting my own video and even figuring out my own audio and lighting, and I was learning how to edit and I was teaching myself all of these valuable skills. And eventually, my career did take off as a TV host. And I worked on network television and cable television. And then, of course, we also saw the way that you know, now everything is streaming and everything is digital. And so I kind of went back into the YouTube world and I worked with makeup brands who were early adopters to YouTube. I was one of the first faces for the cover girl. And I think you can still see my face on Proactive vending machines.
Lauren:
Really? Yeah. Oh my god. That's crazy.
Giselle:
And then from there, it blossomed into a radio career. And I think throughout all of that, because I had started with making my own videos in my kitchen or my living room or my bathroom in my bedroom, I was always so hands on with every single project that I did with every single campaign I endorsed, I was so obsessed with learning about analytics and about the audience. And that was also something that was instilled in us early on with Marki and I learned about what online branding was even though that was something that I never went to school for.
And, and the next thing you know, I was thinking that I wanted to focus my efforts on speaking but I ended up getting an opportunity to help lead an advertising agency here in Minneapolis as the director of marketing. So now I'm able to provide experience to my clients both as an endorser, but also as a creator. And with that, you know,comes always researching what the next coolest thing is. And one of those things was TikTok.
And I remember hearing Gary Vaynerchuk talking about it last year. I think that's where a lot of people started hearing about it. I was like, okay, I'll download it. Let's see what this thing is. This is stupid. I don't get it. Then I heard Rachel Hollis and other incredible thought leaders, women in power talking about it. And I'm like, okay, well, if she's on it, maybe I'll give this another try. Like don't get it. This is stupid, deleted it again. Well, then I take a holiday break. And I'm horrible at taking a vacation but, well, what's something I could do that would be fun, but technically still working. And TikTok came up again, and I dove in, and three hours later, I'm like, why am I still watching these videos?
And I got sucked in. I get it. Now, I'm going to study it, but I'm never going to make a video. And then the next day I'm like, maybe I'll make a video. Like, okay, fine, I'll make a video but I'm never gonna dance then the next day I'm like, dancing a video. It's crazy. How if you if you don't know what TikTok is, it's this video platform that for me actually is very reminiscent of where my career started, which was YouTube. It was a thing that not a lot of people knew about. And here you have a bunch of creators and even misfits on the platform, but they just want to share stories and they want to find friends and a place that perhaps they don't have at home and, and all of a sudden, if you do it, right, you find yourself scrolling through all these videos.
And the most popular creators, aren't necessarily who you think of as mainstream, beautiful, they're not dancers to the level of quality that you'd see in you know, platinum recording artists music video, it's all real people of all shapes and all sizes and all genders and all ages and sexual orientations. And all of a sudden, I'm realizing like, whoa, just from being on here for a few more days, I thought I was a confident person, but this has given me even more permission to be myself. And it's making me want to be more creative. And it's teaching me about new viewership habits and how to suck people in earlier and how to create a community in a different way. And I'm noticing again, just those similarities between what YouTube was and what TikTok I think is trying to be. And I've been able to grow so quickly because I recognize that.
Lauren:
Obviously, you have figured out that secret sauce of TikTok. Just for our listeners to know you get 10s of thousands of views regularly on your videos, where I'm kind of hung up with TikTok. I have a TikTok account I've never posted on. But the thing that I can't really wrap my head around with TikTok is like, I know it's entertaining, I know it's extremely creative, I know it's so fun and quick, but for my marketing standpoint, I can't quite see the win yet to tell a client to go on TikTok. I can't see how the analytics of views could translate into business opportunities. And I was just wondering, what do you see?
Giselle:
So it really depends on what a client's goals are. That's always the first question. What realistically are your goals? Are you hoping that this turns into conversions? Okay, well, let's talk about that. What does that look like? What I try to tell people is it really depends on what industry you're in. And what are you trying to do here? Because here's the thing, I have clients on the platform who are doctors. And you might think, wait a minute, why would you put a doctor on there? You know, they're not going to walk into your office?
No, but with them, their hope isn't just to be an influencer, because there are a lot of people who get on TikTok and they just want to go viral and they want to have influence. For them. They are one, creating visibility within their career, especially women, especially lesser known specialties in the field of medicine. They are answering questions that perhaps people are too afraid to say out loud when they walk into the office. They are educating the audience on what questions to ask. And also they're having fun. I think we lose sight of that. So often when we're trying to figure out okay, what are the secrets? What's the algorithm? How many times a day do I post?
Okay, hold on, let's back off, and remember what social media is all about. Social media connection, platform, and TikTok is just one more place that you can do that. And you don't have to use music. You don't have to dance and what you'll see from my profile, I have two profiles. So one is entirely marketing tips. mediabridgegiselle, and the other one is me and it's motivating and it's empowering. And what you find is, I am the same person on tik tok that I am on every other platform, but I'm making my message more consistent. I'm adding a little more flair.
And I'm getting personal in a different way that I can't anywhere else. Just like every other platform, you know what works for you might not work for me. But you need to figure out what your cadence looks like, what your audience will take from it, or perhaps I see some people who they're on Instagram and their Instagram is super professional and are giving all these tips, but then they come on TikTok, and they decide, you know what, I know that my audience is primarily millennials and Gen X on Instagram, I'm going to create a whole new identity for myself on tik tok. And I actually want to reach the Gen Zers. I actually want to give a message to high schoolers, I actually want to open up in a way that I am the person or the big sister that I wish that I would have had when I was younger, and all of a sudden, you can create this whole new identity and start from scratch because it is a different audience since people still don't really know about it.
Lauren:
Yeah, that's so true. It's and it's also really interesting that you created two different profiles because you're so clear about the different audiences that you're wanting. To reach, it's like, so smart.
Giselle:
And it's experimental for me, you know, because I do this for a living. And so for me, it was, alright, I'm going to have clients on here. But I think in order for me to be a good guide to my clients, I need to be jumping into the pool as well. And so with that it was ultimately an experiment to see, okay, if I have a niche, will I grow faster than if I'm simply being me as a personality?
And that's even a whole lesson in itself, which is, you know, there are a lot of people on any platform that you're on, you get stuck in this idea of, well, what is a niche? And people think that niches are so topical, where it's like I'm you know, a social media person or I'm a fitness person or I'm a dance person. No, no, no, that is one of your things. But like even for me, for example, my niche is not marketing. My niche is growth. And growth is something that is an umbrella that can extend to far more than just TikTok tips. And my niche is not only what I am an expert in, it's also my voice. The way that you and Phil speak. deliver information.
We're all in the same business. Yeah. However, there might be someone who prefers to work with one of you over me. And that doesn't mean that anybody is better than the other. I mean, hello, we're right here sharing information back and forth. But people, for whatever reason, find a level of intimacy that is more comfortable with you guys than with me. And that is part of your niche that people forget, like, you are your niche. Yeah. And that is what you are on whatever platform and ultimately it is up to you to decide what your identity is going to be.
But also you do believe it or not have the power to create who your audience is going to be as well, by creating your content around that. And you can decide, alright, is it going to be universal? Or are we going to narrow in on something?
Lauren:
So I've got two questions for you. First, where do you get your content ideas? Because your posts are very specific on TikTok. And the second part is how far in advance do you plan?
Giselle:
Yeah, as far as how long far ahead, do I plan in advance? I don't, I pretty much fly by the seat of my pants. And I know that that sometimes gets me into trouble in certain areas. But I am someone who I fully lead with my heart. I speak on stages. And there have been moments where I'm with the coordinator, and we know what I'm going to talk about. And I have the PowerPoint, and all of a sudden, I'm walking up the steps and I go, I know I was going to talk about that, but I have this tug in my heart, this, this knot in my throat, like someone else needs to hear something more important than this. And I'll flip to that.
And some of the inspiration comes from perhaps a direct message that I got that day or that week, or perhaps it's something that I myself am going through. One of my best performing videos on my personal channel that has millions of views, is just me simply saying, hey, overthinker, I know that you are up right now and you have these ideas that are replaying in your head, let's pause for a second focus on what you can control. focus on what's immediately ahead of you. Like, it's gonna be okay. It's something to that effect. And that went viral instantly. And it was just from a night where I was overthinking a little bit. And it was what I needed to hear.
And as it turns out, you know, I think my best content comes from those moments where I go, I wonder if I'm the only one who feels like this. And then I put it out there. And as it turns out, you're not alone. And you're not you're never alone. But I think where a lot of people look at social media as a place of comparison, I'll tell you a little secret for me, Instagram gave me the confidence to be me. It was where I realized that if I don't just show the after result, but if I show the before, that is more relatable last year, I had an autoimmune disease where my whole body from my scalp to the bottoms of my feet every single crevice like every we're talking every single crevice in my body was itching or bumpy. I put on like 30 pounds.
Of course I was trying tonight to cope. Yeah, I was on all of these steroid medications and I was eating like crap. Nothing but sweatpants fit me. I couldn't even wear underwear. I couldn't even wear a bra. I could hardly wear makeup. And for me, it was like okay, but the show must go on. And in a world where we're so caught up and having this perfectly curated feed, I was showing the good, the bad, the really ugly, the feeling like a whale day, the feeling lumpy and bumpy, and people were like, thank you.
Thank you for that. And thank you for I'll show pictures of my body or my stretch marks and I'm like, I have not had a baby. You have a lot of women who they embrace stretch marks after they're like but I've made life with this body, and like I haven't, I just turned 12 then my boobs grew and this is what happened. One morning I woke up and had him my armpits and my legs but I love it. And it's a breath of fresh air. People are getting sick of the perfectly aesthetic feed and they want connection over perfection. And I think that's a beautiful, beautiful thing. And again, just one of the reasons why I love TikTok is because people are getting to that point sooner.
Lauren:
Yeah, it's so fascinating. Well, first of all, thanks for sharing that. Because I think, you know, there's a lot of strength and vulnerability. And we have clients, for example, who want to be seen as experts, they want to be selling their services through social media, and because they want to be seen as an expert, they're often scared to be vulnerable about what's not going well for them. And what they're not good at. Do you have the same thing with your clients?
Giselle:
All the time, and I've had to go through that myself. I had a moment a couple of weeks ago where I spoke at the University of St. Thomas, which is a college here and I spoke to this big group of women who were in this business marketing club. And I remember afterwards having this epiphany where I've always hated the word role model. I've hated it. I know that there are a lot of people who aspire to be a role model.
And I just didn't like that. But I realized in my mind, it was because well, I always thought that a role model was supposed to be perfect. Like, in my mind, she was someone who, you know, she never cheated on her diet. She worked out every day, she didn't cuss. She went to church every Sunday. She was married with kids, all the things.
And now I'm at a place where I realized like, No, no, I actually am a role model. And I'm never going to claim to be perfect, but it's simply that I want to be a guiding light to and away from the mistakes to those who are afraid to jump in. And I had, you know, you have all these questions from especially young people and whenever I speak even to professional communities, I'll be honest and talk about relationships and my breakups and, and the whole human behind this person who you see as, quote unquote, so successful.
And one of the things I said was, I wish you heartbreak, I wish you pain. I wish that you have these hurdles to jump over to prepare you for and to give you the strength to get through things. And I think one of the breakthroughs that I had going even back to your perfect client thing I was working with, I do one-on-one coaching as well, and one of my clients is she works in the mortgage business. And she is one of the top like 1% in her industry, like the whole industry, not even just in her state or at her business like the whole industry. But what I thought was so profound about this woman is, she now owns the industrial building that her mom who was a cleaning lady used to clean. She had a single mom who was working so many jobs and one of her Jobs was that she is a cleaning lady.
And that was the first time in our coaching session that she had ever admitted that. And I go, don't get me wrong, I think it's great that you've done all of this stuff. But now that I know where you come from, that background that you were so ashamed of, you know, the soul crushing that came from the way that your family developed, that to me, like, you are no longer just this accomplishment, like you are a warrior. And that is the badass ness. That is the grit that has the resilience of someone who I would want to work with, versus someone who just says, Oh, no, everything is perfect. I'm great. I was born this way.
Lauren:
Right? Of course. Yeah. It makes perfect sense. Yeah, it's so fascinating, because I do think the hardships that we face in life make us interesting. And I was like, you know, there's like a quote I saw the other day, it was like something about how success isn't about what you accomplish, it's about how you get back up after failing. And I just feel like on social media, and I think this is the perfect way to bring it back to TikTok on social media.
Giselle:
We're in this really, really interesting part of history where now being real is better than being curated. Talk about relationships and my breakups and, and the whole human behind this person who you see as, quote unquote, so successful. And one of the things I said was, I wish you heartbreak, I wish you pain. I wish that you have these hurdles to jump over to prepare you for and to give you the strength to get through things.
And I think one of the breakthroughs that I had going even back to your perfect client thing I was working with, I do one-on-one coaching as well. And one of my clients is she works in the mortgage business. And she is one of the top like 1% in her industry, like the whole industry, not even just in her state or at her business like the whole industry. But what I thought was so profound about this woman is she now owns the industrial building, that her mom who was a cleaning lady used to clean. Wow, she had a single mom who was working so many jobs and one of her Jobs was that she is a cleaning lady. And that was the first time in our coaching session that she had ever admitted that And I go, don't get me wrong. I think it's great that you've done all of this stuff.
But now that I know where you come from that background that you were so ashamed of, you know, the soul crushing that came from the way that your family developed that to me, like, you are no longer just this accomplishment, like you are a warrior. And that is the badass ness. That is the grit that has the resilience of someone who I would want to work with. versus someone who just says, Oh, no, everything is perfect. I'm great. I was born this way.
Lauren:
Yeah. It makes perfect sense. It's so fascinating, because I do think the hardships that we face in life make us interesting. And I was like, you know, there's like a quote I saw the other day, it was like something about how success isn't about what you accomplish. It's about how you get back up after failing. And I just feel like on social media, and I think this is the perfect way to like, bring it back to TikTok on social media. We're in this really, really interesting part of history where now being real is better than being curated. I really think so I feel just in general, curating and imperfection is more interesting than perfection.
Giselle:
And there is definitely a creative element to that. I have friends who God bless them, their feed is perfect, but they are also creatives in that for them, that is their art that is their outlet. And so I would never dog on someone for having this perfectly manicured, you know, beautiful feed, I think there are some people who do and they do it well and it's an expression of who you are. But if that's not you, and if that's not who you want to be, don't force it. Don't fake it.
Phil:
Well, hold on a second. Now's the moment in the episode where we take a little pause, a little break and we talk about what got cookin in this kitchen, honey.
Lauren:
Well Phil Pallen, tell us what's up. What's happening. You. You do.
Phil:
Oh, that hot potato. I do love a hot baked potato for the record, but it must have toppings, like sour cream, chives, and I don't eat bacon, cheddar cheese.
Lauren:
Well, do you want to talk about the courses?
Phil:
Yes. Let's talk about the courses. We've got three of them: Content Mastery, Email Mastery, Instagram Mastery. I mean, I think they're self explanatory. But all of these courses will dive deep on these topics. So whether you're wanting to grow your email list, whether you're wanting to grow your Instagram on we always say four, but now five verticals because it includes Reels and in the process of adding a module to that course by the end of the month. As well, Content Mastery is our bestseller. This helps you really get a handle on your content planning things ahead of time, optimizing your strategy on platforms that you should consider a priority depending on your audience and your brand. So those are our courses and specific to podcast listeners. We have a promo code THERAPY50 did you hear that I almost forgot the code? We'll give you 50% off the course at the full price which is 299.
Lauren:
You know, you get a discount. And that's all that matters.
Phil:
And that's all that matters. THERAPY50 at checkout, go check them out. philpallen.co. Let's get back to our conversation. This is a good one.
Lauren:
It is. Let's do it. Go back, back.
Phil:
So I love what Giselle actually just said about if that's your thing. That's your thing, because I feel like it's kind of my thing. But I also like to fuss over it so much that it prevents me from posting every day. And that's what I'm working through right now.
Giselle:
I want to ask you a question. So, I have been talking to a lot of people in marketing and social media. And obviously, we, on our phones, when we, you know, get that dreaded notification at the end of the week that tells us how much time we've spent on our phones. It's probably higher than the average person. But what I want to know is what is your ratio or measurement of creation versus consumption?
Lauren:
Mine is like, really, really high consumption? really high. The only creation I do honestly is creation for Phil, I'd say. But if I'm not consuming, I can't get inspiration from looking at what other people are doing. So it's tough. I don't know. What about you Phil?
Phil:
So my daily average is five hours and 15 minutes? I'm not proud of that. That's a lot, isn't it? In terms of like, day of daily phone usage?
Giselle:
No, I think I mean, it makes sense because well, first of all, we're on our phones, I think even more now than usual. But also, I mean, this is a big part of what we do professionally. So it makes sense that hours, you know, it should be higher than average. But there are a lot of people who assume that I'm someone who, I'm addicted to my phone, or I'm always on my phone, or they, if they're meeting me for the first time, and we take a workout class, they're like, oh, I don't know, I guess I just thought that you would be the type of person who you were taking pictures of yourself in the mirror the whole time, or that you'd be pulling out your phone mid squat or something? I'm like, no, like, I'll do that at the end. Maybe once.
But, you know, I really, I'm really not on social media that much unless I'm uploading or to Lauren's point, unless I need some creativity. And I think that's, I think that's part of it. I mean, granted, it's come from being on social media for so long, but I think it's also understanding what a healthy relationship with it is. And yes, you can consume to the point where you're not comparing, but I think that a lot of people get trapped in this place of comparison. And then what ends up coming out on their feed is not them.
It's actually them trying to replicate what somebody else does. Rather than like, knowing who you are, knowing what you want to put out and just letting it happen. And, and I know that I got a glimpse of that again, when I got on TikTok. And I know, Phil, that you talked about this the first time that you went viral? How it's so addicting. And all you do is you keep refreshing and refreshing and you want to see the legs and you want to see the views and you want to see how fast it's going. But now, whether it's instagram or TikTok, and luckily Instagram took the likes away anyway, but like I put something out and I'm like, Okay, cool. And then maybe the next day I'll wake up. Oh, cool, viral. Sweet. Let's do something else. It's not.
Phil:
I think in general, I'm pretty good at differentiating between consuming and marketing like I try to make people it's like take when you notice a Facebook ad or when you notice a comment or you watch a video on to talk and think, wow, that really resonated with me like take inventory of those moments of consumption as a marketer, not just a consumer, when you notice something someone does. And you think about it, take note of you taking note of that, and think how could I say that in my words, or what's your take on that? Absolutely.
The ability to differentiate between the two. But I think what's really cool is you've created an environment where you can put your thoughts out there. You feel excited without overthinking about how it looks or the fact that it's funny. Like on tik tok, for example, it's like, I don't know. I mean, there's you're inundated online not on the for you page or just people you follow. It's like looking at all these funny jokes, looking at this funny skit like, Oh, look at this damn smooth I need to learn for two hours. It's like I don't have time to learn to dance moves.
But how can I quickly register in the moment? Oh, this is actually really interesting. Maybe people don't put their butter on their hot food and make it easy to spread. I just do that. I think just from sitting on some airplanes. That's an example from my TikTok viral. I'm going on a tangent here. But I think maybe my favorite thing about TikTok is the fact that it makes you a better marketer. I think the best thing about TikTok is how it improves your ability to create content that grabs people's attention and gives you some testing ground, if you will.
Giselle:
Yeah. It gives you a lot of creative freedom. It gives you a lot of inspiration and that I think helps you to step back and go okay, stop overthinking here. Yes. And yeah, just put it out there and see what happens. And that was, for me, my very, very first viral video, that's what it was I had, you know, I have my ring light, and I have my stage makeup and hair that I can put on if I really want to. And I remember being in the airport one day, and your first viral video was an airplane video. So it's kind of funny that there's that coincidence.
But I remember I was just in the airport, and I'm sitting there and my air pods are about to die, and I'm like, I'm just gonna film this thing while I'm eating. And the lighting sucks, and the sound kind of sucks. Yet, boom. That's what happened. And, that's the other thing, too, that you mentioned really quickly, that I think is important to acknowledge to those who aren't as familiar with TikTok is, there is this page called the for you page. And what the for you page is, it is the default page that you go to when you open your screen.
So when you open TikTok, you don't go straight to who you're following. You go straight to this page, which is all content that is customized based off of who you like, who you follow, but most importantly, what types of videos you watch. The most what you're leaning into. And so one thing I said to one of my girlfriends is TikTok knows you're gay, even if you haven't come out to your family, like TikTok knows what race you are, even if you haven't, like set that out TikTok knows how you vote, or it knows all of that even if you have not publicly liked or commented on anything. And
I think that that is also what gives people more permission to be themselves, what feeds them content or people who they might not see on a regular basis. And I also think that it helps differentiate a hater as a confused admirer because TikTok will know Oh, you were peeping on Phil's page, but you didn't follow him. But we noticed that you were on there for seven seconds and that you watched four of his videos. If you don't want to follow him. Are you sure you don't want to follow Phil and it'll keep like putting your videos on their feed even if they didn't like what you were doing and that is why people grow so quickly and why people are obsessed with the platform.
Phil:
That is so insightful. That is so so crazy interesting. What do you want to know about something funny? I had this amazing intro plan but Lauren would have had to do and since I was over here napping, the whole conversation.
Well, let me let me do a mid tro instead of an intro because the whole me getting on TikTok was after I found out Giselle was on TikTok. I didn't even know what TikTok was, but a conversation literally happened. Okay, between Javi who is my partner, he had TikTok, and he's, let's say considerably years younger than me. Okay, let's leave it at that, he's scrolling through because I don't quite like the platform. And he says, there's this girl that you need to follow. She talks about social media and she gives good advice. And I was like, okay, whatever. We're like eating dinner, put your phone away. And then he said, Oh, yeah, it's this girl. Her name is Giselle. And I was like, excuse me.
I know there's more people named Giselle, but as soon as he said Giselle, I was like, no, oh my god, because within a few days of that, I had read on Giselle’s bio on Instagram, over a million or however many million impressions or something like this right? And 20 million views. 20 million views. I was like, where the heck did she get the nose? And then in that single moment that he said Giselle, I was like, I don't know if this is creepy, or I'm excited about this small world. So he had no idea that I was actually friends with you. And we have this whole history, right. And so that almost I mean, that's kind of an interesting little personal experience of that kind of awareness. I mean, it's crazy.
Giselle:
Well, before you popped on, I was telling Lauren that, you know, my career accidentally first happened on YouTube, where I became. I wouldn't call myself an early adapter of YouTube. But I do think that I was an early adapter of brands on YouTube. And so the first 10 million views came from being the face of a brand like CoverGirl, and doing makeup tutorials, and for the first time, you don't just see someone who's in high school hitting the camera or record button a million times to get the right take or the right lighting. All of a sudden you see this blend of okay, here's this person who has production and hosting experience, but also understands the online world, and how that personalization and professionalism but still that imperfection nugget started to creep in can work just so beautifully.
Lauren:
I have some technical questions about TikTok, if you'll bear with me as somebody who has not gone viral on yet.
Giselle:
Because I mean, here's the thing, though, and going back to Phil, a lot of what I've been saying is that what I see and TikTok is what YouTube was 10 years ago. And what was YouTube 10 years ago is you have all of these. It was just when the word influencer was just starting, I don't even think it was around yet. You had all of these people and you'd go, how did you have so many subscribers on YouTube? I don't know, I just have fun. Meanwhile, I'm studying and I'm going. Nope. It's because you were posting videos every single week, sometimes twice a week. It's because you are being relatable.
And yes, you do suck at public speaking, but that's why people love you. Because you're showing up and you're being that normal because they feel like you are their best friend. In fact, like you are their only friend and they don't feel alone around you. That's the formula ultimately or it's because of collaboration which, on YouTube, it was called a tag on TikTok, it's called a tradition. And it's the exact same thing.
That's how people grew so quickly and then all of a sudden, because you're doing a collaboration, then people really want to be friends with you because they want to feel like they're part of your club. And then they follow you and your friend and whatever house that you're in on TikTok. And that is what I think is so crazy. So what back to what your question was, is, there are people who have millions of followers and views on tik tok, who still don't understand why TikTok. is as successful as it is, and why they are as successful as they are. Nor do they have any idea how to prolong that fame or how to cross it across mainstream and platforms. And it's the same thing with everyone on TikTok.
Lauren:
How interesting I guess because it's just so new people are still figuring out one thing I was wondering is on TikTok, how do you decide what hashtags to use in your post?
Giselle:
So what is typically recommended is you should be tagging three types of hashtags. One is something that is trending, which will show up as a default setting when you're creating a caption or if you go into the discover section, you'll see the traditions that they're all choreographed by TikTok and or sponsored by big brands.
People still don't understand that it's not like Twitter where things are trending like no, it is very much choreographed. Because you will actually find that some of the top videos in those categories aren't even using the expressed hashtag. So one is a trending hashtag. The second is to tag your target audience. So that could be millennials. That could be Gen Z, that could be California, that could be hockey or dance. And then the third is to do some sort of a categorical hashtag. So cooking recipes, cleaning, marketing, advertising, that's not the be all end all. You can totally go off the grid and if you want to do the whole thing, categorically, go for it.
If you want to do the whole thing, traditionally, go for it, but that's how I think that you can play with this idea of being strategic with it, and hit across the board with getting in front of the right people. And I think that's more important than going viral. Because you know, that's cool if you have a viral video and you get all of these followers overnight, but how do you keep them? And how do you eventually turn those people into customers? And how do you create the same trust on TikTok that you would on other platforms? And so with that, it's that you want to get in front of more eyes who are actually going to want to connect with you, and who are going to want to stick around for more and watch more than just one video from you.
Lauren:
And for someone who does get that million views and they're not quite sure why, but they want to get the million views again. What do you recommend someone does to figure out like, why did this video click like what questions should they ask?
Giselle:
Well, ultimately, this is the secret to going viral and again, it doesn't. It's not a no fail formula, but the reason why a video will go viral is because TikTok favors retention and repeat use over anything else, and from those shares. So if you are thinking that 60 seconds isn’t a very long time and you want to fill that entire space, understand that most people aren't going to watch until the end, unless your video is really good.
So what you need to figure out is why did someone watch until the end? Is there fluff that I can cut out? What made someone want to repeat view this, and there are tricks around that, for example, you can have in your call to action for people to leave comments. When you leave a comment the video continues to play and when the video continues to play that is automatically a repeat view. And so depending on that, there, there it is.
There's also this concept of sharing. I think that is a metric that marketers especially in the social media space, or not even marketers, I think just typical consumers, neglect to realize is such a meaningful metric, because we're so caught up in the likes and the views the follows. But knowing how people share your content, who loved your video enough that they wanted to share it with someone else, they wanted to share that laugh together, they wanted to share that, that feeling together, they wanted to share that nugget of wisdom and education together, that is something that will be organically going to it's going to give you more eyes on your content.
And then last but not least, is there room for your video to be duetted. And what that is, is on TikTok, you can create a video that will show it's kind of like a retweet with a comment but it's on TikTok. So ultimately it is you play the other person's video but it comes up on your feed and you can react to it. You can put your voice over it, or you can do exactly what they're doing and do a duet.
And if you have content that that can be edited in some way or if you encourage that, for example, one person I'm known for on TikTok my first viral video and then also what has gotten more duets and shares anything is I had this that airport video, where it was just me saying, Oh my God, is that what you're wearing? Oh my God, let me see the whole thing turn around, fix your hair like this. And it's something that people when they're feeling good about themselves, or when they're wearing pajamas, they will do that video and be that other person who I was talking to in that video.
And so it's it. I mean it, it always comes down to the formula, the no fail formula is putting your audience first and making them feel. Really it's making them feel feelings, like making them feel anything enough to make them want to engage, participate or be your friend.
Lauren:
This has been so great. Phil, I don't know if you have any questions, but like, I mean, I'm like so inspired right now.
Phil:
I would say like for me, I've only posted on TikTok five or six times, and I've done quite well but now I'm in the zone of like, what do I do next? And I'm not exactly sure I probably just need to keep trying things and not overthink things. My best TikTok was when I was on an airplane without WiFi, and I had to film it and save it as a draft because I couldn't publish it live because I was on an airplane. So how do I sometimes like it? How do I remove the distractions and keep creating and learning? I think that's I think I know what it needs to do. That's probably it and just keep trying things.
Giselle:
Well, and I mean, you are one of the lucky ones. Where was it? Your first video went viral? Or was it your second?
Phil:
Third? It was my third tip.
Giselle:
Yeah, so I think mine was like 15, or like 13 or something. And here's the thing, though, I don't even want I almost don't even want to list those numbers for people. Because what I was going to advise you is you had the blessing and the curse that you took off early.
Yes. And so now it's like every single thing after that you want to meet or top with that one. Right, and what I try to tell my clients because and that's also again, going back to our conversation earlier, Lauren about how to create business off of TikTok. I have now gotten coaching clients from TikTok. But one of the things that I say is, we all want to go viral. But it goes back to that concept of a viral video is great. Getting those views are great, getting the likes and the rush of followers like yes, that's, that's really awesome.
But what I would wish on you more is consistency. And even if that consistency is making sure that every time you put up a video, you get at least five to 10% of your followers to watch it. Or even if it is just you know, every now and then you hit a 20,000 or you know, every ten you hit a million great, but it's more important to me for my own growth but also my clients to have consistency with your people to build that relationship with your people. Because otherwise what ends up happening is you get sucked into this, how can I create shock value? How can I create clickbait? How can I get the next viral video, and then you're so scattered, that people don't know anything about you.
They may know your face, but then there's no connection to you. And so then the ability to turn those followers into customers, it's out the window. It's like that girl who couldn't even sell 24 t shirts and had, you know, a million followers. So start creating that community, start showing that you care, you know, have those videos where I had a handful of views where people will say, well, if you know everything about TikTok wise and every single one of your videos viral, because I want to have a couple of videos where I'm taking my time with my people to share something about me or to tell a story that is going to get them to feel connected to me in more than what they would feel connected to in seven seconds.
And that I think is more important than just having another great number on your profile.
Phil:
Completely, it's the right way to look at things. And this is a good reminder of how to not get caught up in the minutia. You've got a real kind of confidence and clarity in what you're creating. And I think that's absolutely essential. And I think it's inspiring. I think it's really cool. A wonderful little productive chat with you. And Lauren's happy because she learned about TikTok, I think what we've talked about today is even just relevant on a wider scale for any kind of social media creation. I think it's important to have that clarity, that kind of humanity element and not just chase the vanity because it's just not substantial enough to actually do anything with.
Giselle:
Yep, accurately.
Phil:
Well, your perspective on this is really unique and it's really awesome. And I'm just so happy to see you doing you and just totally thriving because you deserve it.
Giselle:
Right back at you, both of you guys. Thank you so much for having me.
Phil:
You are so welcome. Thank you.
