94. How do you get cast on TV? (f. Jake Rehorst)
Why do some people get cast on reality TV shows and others don't? 📺 If you've been binging Selling Sunset and Love is Blind like our two hosts, you'll love this episode that breaks down the casting strategies on reality TV shows. Hosts Phil and Lauren meet with casting producer (and long-time friend) Jake Rehorst to talk about his thought process when sifting through talent for Canada's top reality TV shows. You'll learn how to lean into a persona, create consistency in your application, and stand out during auditions. Our most fun Brand Therapy episode yet!
Episode Transcription
Phil
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Phil
Hello there. Welcome to Brand Therapy. I'm Phil.
Lauren
And I'm Lauren.
Phil
And this is the podcast where we talk about positioning, building and promoting your brand. Usually it's one of those topics that we dive deep on one of those stages of our branding process. Okay, today is a splashy, exciting topic. We're excited for a number of reasons, are we Lauren Moore?
Lauren
I can't remember the last time I was so excited about anything, honestly.
Phil
Reason number one. The topic itself is exciting and interesting because it involves television. In fact, special shout out to Sofia sent me a message a few weeks ago saying Phil, I'm applying for casting for a TV show for a reality show. She asked me for advice on getting ready for a TV show that she was applying for. And I thought, bingo bango bongo. What a perfect podcast topic discussion episode. So that's reason number one. Reason number two, is we can only think of one person one, one person that would be perfect to talk to about this one expert. One professional Skyping, Zooming, making his presence known.
Lauren
Decades ahead of the industry.
Phil
All the way from Toronto, Ontario, Canada, North America, the world. His name is Jake Rehorst, and he's been a friend of ours for a very long time.
Lauren
Jacob, Peter Rehorst.
Phil
We know everything about you. Welcome to Brand Therapy.
Jake
Hi!
Phil
Hi, this is silly because we're actually all BFFAE’s.
Jake
I'm so excited to be here. This is really fun. And thank you for that exceptional intro.
Phil:
So let's paint a picture. Sophia goes to me on instagram DMS, we keep in touch. I mean, we love Sophia. So she goes Phil. Oh my god, at the end of this week, I have a casting interview via zoom obviously right now, what do I wear? What do I do? What do I say? How do I present myself in the best way possible? What Sophia didn't realize is that we have you you've done casting for years. Tell us just before we get into the nit and grit, what are the shows that you worked on?
Jake: Yeah, so I've been working in TV now for about like 10 years, and I would say, casting for seven or eight years, I would say, some of the shows that I've done. I've kind of been all over the place, but sort of found my niche on cooking shows. So I started my first show castings Four Weddings Canada, which was so fun. We did two seasons of that, and then I went on to Storage Wars Canada. I've done the great Canadian Baking Show, which is the Canadian version of the Great British Bake Off for the Canadian viewers. I did three seasons of Canada's Worst Driver. I've done six seasons of MasterChef Canada, Iron Chef Canada, Wall of Shafts, and I think that's my most recent stuff. Battle of the Blades, a long time ago.
Phil: Oh yes.
Jake: Steven and Chris. Oh, yeah, ages. And that's it and lots of fun stuff.
Lauren: And then for the casting just to clarify with these competition shows, you are basically figuring out who you want to cast to compete on the shows, and you're also considering what chemistry people might have with the other contestants. Is that right?
Jake: Yeah, I think that's that's mostly right. So basically what I do is I'm kind of the first line of communication for people who are applying to these shows. So let's say, Lauren, you love to cook. You're really I'm just going to use like a show that I've done for six years that I know really well. I'll use Master Chef Canada as an example. So let's say you love to cook. You are a home cook. You're the best cook in your friend group. All your friends and family say Lauren, you are the best cook, you should apply for masters of Canada, you apply, you send your application, you tell us a little bit about yourself why you love to cook, what your friends say about your food, what your students traditions, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, you give me all this information that comes to me. And so I read through it. It's first impression. And it is, if you're good on paper, if you sound interesting on paper, if you sell yourself on this application, and I think you have a compelling story, then I say, yeah, let's see more of you. Let's go for it. And you get through to the next round.
Phil: What makes someone stand out on paper that makes you want to go to second base with them?
Lauren: I can't believe you're calling at second base?
Jake: I know it's so inappropriate.
Phil: Well, it’s my podcasts, I can do what I want. Do what I want, do what I want.
Jake: That's life, life baby.
Phil: So tell me how you get to second base with someone?
Jake: That's a good question. So if I'm going through my casting portal, and I have hundreds and hundreds of names, I literally look at a picture the size of a, of a looney, for our American listeners, it's a looney. And that's called a pregnant pause. So anyways, that's what I'm looking at, I'm looking at hundreds and hundreds of tiny little thumbnails that are the size of a loony. I click on pictures that look good, where I can see your face. I can't tell you how many times I've skipped over someone, because they choose to upload a photo that doesn't have their face on it.
That's step number one. It doesn't have to be a headshot. It's just like something that's fine, something that's going to tell me a little bit about you.
Lauren: And but what do you mean by tell me a little about you?
Jake: I like to get a little bit of someone's personality at each stage. The profile photo is a great example. So if I'm a fisherman or something, what a fun example, if I'm a fisherman or something, I'm going to put a photo of me with a fish or on a fishing boat or something you know what I mean. So that tells me a little bit about them as a character. And then moving on when I'm reading their application, it's a very gray area of too long versus too short. I like short, concise answers. If it's too long, and you're not really saying anything, I'm going to get bored, I'm going to go a little bit cross eyed and start scrolling through, unfortunately. But basically, I think it's just really telling your story and telling me who you are in a compelling way. And something that's going to make me interested in you. It doesn't have to be like crazy, insane stories or anything, I literally don't care if you're like, living out of your car, or what your job is, as long as like you're honest with me, and you tell me exactly what's going on in your life, that's all I want to hear.
Phil: It's interesting, because it's not that different from branding, which is like how do we tell a compelling story, but also respect the time of your audience. So in this case, you are almost kind of vetting them first to make sure that you're interested in who they are and how they're communicating. Because if you're not interested in it, then the audience is definitely not going to be interested in it. Here is something interesting.
What you do, and actually what we do is not drastically different. I mean, we're a part of crafting that message, so people pay attention, but so are you. You're on the team of people that help craft that message, so the audience pays attention doesn't change the channel. I just had a really interesting connection here. You and I both have insanely short attention spans, and it probably makes us better at our jobs.
Jake: That's really interesting.
Phil: We're getting deeeeeeep.
Jake: Oh, is this a therapy? This is brand therapy. We’re putting the therapy on brand therapy? So I'm not Yeah, no, I think there's I think that's really interesting. I think there's a lot of really interesting parallels between casting and branding. I was thinking about that when I was preparing. I mean, basically, it's about first impressions and what you want people to get out of you. If I'm someone who's applying, I want to sell myself I want to put my best foot forward.
Lauren: So when you're casting, are there any specific factors that help someone's application stand out other than length of writing and the photo? Is there a personality type you're looking for?
Jake: I'm not looking for any particular personality. Ten years ago, I think the archetypes that are like, typically used for storytelling are a little bit gone. I think there's too many interesting people to be for free to box them into anything, right? I think it's really important to tell as many stories as you can, because the more stories you tell, the more people can see themselves on TV and say, hey, that's like, I connect with that character. I connect with that person. You know, I'm rooting for them. So I think that's really important.
So no, there's no certain type of personality. I mean, obviously, if you're a wallflower, and you can't string a sentence together, like super shy, I don't think it's probably not going to be the right fit for you. But yeah, I love someone who I can connect with and who is chatty. And when I'm interviewing someone, the good ones for me are people who, who I can have a conversation with and not so much Much ask questions. You know what I mean? Like it should come, it should come kind of naturally. Obviously, I have to ask questions.
Phil: It's not like a job interview, it's not really that kind of like formal structure, it's more you're trying to get a sense of how that person fits into the puzzle. They're a puzzle piece, that guest doesn't necessarily that contest in or whatever you call it, that participant doesn't necessarily know all the other variables. They might be awesome, but you can’t have two of the same person for examples. So, but also, due to the nature of this, people get really excited. As soon as you have one in total. It's like, you get the first reply. You're like, Oh, my God, I might be on TV. This might change my career. This might change my life.
Jake: Yeah. I can't tell you how many times and this happens on literally every show. I'm working on a kid's cooking show right now. There's so many amazing kids that I would love to see more of and I'd love to see on the show. But, at the end of the day, we have X number of spots. And it's exactly that I say this to everybody who doesn't make it on this show. I say it's a puzzle. We had to put this puzzle together and it just didn't fit this year. Your piece didn't fit. I don't like to say that, you're just like, children, you're gonna break their hearts.
Phil: Yeah. Have you had anyone cry? Have you ever told someone that they're not on the show, and they've cried?
Lauren: How do you tell them to by email?
Jake: I haven't had to reject anybody yet. Be I probably an email or like a phone call. If I'm like, if I really like the kid, or if I really like the personal call them. It sucks, though. Because Yeah. And that's the one thing that I tell people is like, it doesn't fit this year. But next year, please apply again. There have been so many shows that I've worked on where someone has applied three years in a row, and it takes them until the fourth year to make it on. You know what I mean?
Phil: Interesting.
Jake: There's so many variables. They're just like, completely unplanned when you're putting a cast together.
Phil: Do you have any examples of someone's career really skyrocketing from being on a show and you've cast them and did you feel kind of partially excited about how you played a role in that person’s brand growing, any examples?
Jake: I won't mention any names because I don't know if I'm allowed to but there's one person who on MasterChef Canada who, like I did their initial phone call with and met them in person a ton of times and who went on to win the show. She ended up getting this like, she's just like, from the moment that I talked to her. I was like, Oh my god, you are going to win the show. And I remember I met her in that when we were doing in person auditions in Toronto. I remember we had this lineup of hundreds and hundreds of people. And I saw her because her photo matched her thumbnail out of hundreds, I recognized her instantly. She also had a like a very definitive look. She had like, bright hair, cool colored glasses, super distinct. I'm not saying everybody has to do that.
Everybody's different doesn't fit for people. But I remember seeing her and thought I know who you are you are I'd like to know who you are. And then she did incredible in the show. She took everybody's criticism and just did better. She was there with a purpose, which I think is really important, especially on a competition show. You can't get caught up in the stuff that goes on behind the scenes and how tired you are, and how long you've been waiting.
And at the end of the day, you're there to win a prize and you're there to enhance your brand and enhance your career. Anyway, she has a show on a major Canadian network now. So cool.
Lauren: Incredible, you changed her life.
Jake: Well, she did. Yeah.
Lauren: But you helped open the door.
Phil: So what advice would you have for someone that is auditioning or applying? Let's say they make it past the written application, and then they get to the video component. What do you recommend they wear or they do to present themselves confidently in video format?
Jake: Okay, that's what I was gonna say. Because you were saying this person, Sophia, who was she applied for a show?
Phil: Yes.
Jake: Okay. I mean, this is what I do. Basically, when I apply for a job or when I'm being considered for a job, because I freelance. So I'm working on four or five different shows a year. So whenever I'm in consideration for a show, and I don't get it, the hardest part is when you get too excited about it, you guys, like must know this too, you're gonna get too excited about it. And it really hurts to like not get it because you're super excited. What happens to everybody who's a freelancer, so that's just normal, but I would say, as a person to person piece of advice that I can give to people take every step as it comes. And just be fine with it if it doesn't work.
And this is something that I tell people when they get on a show if it's like a multi episode show, it's not just one episode. But is to wear colorful clothes always look better, colorful solids always look the best. They make you pop. That's great. I wouldn't say there's you know, clothes specifically that we're looking for, but I say consistency in your look though, is really important. So Before someone comes to a show, I always say, what kind of T shirts do you like? Or what shirts do you like to wear? If it's a guy, what shirts you like to wear. They like to wear button down shirts, I'd say, okay, go out, buy six have the exact same button down in different colors, and wear that. So when I see that person, when I saw that person last week, they're wearing a blue button down shirt. When I see them this week, they're wearing a green button down shirt, like that. So little pieces of consistency I think are really important.
Also, with women, too! I think more their look is a little bit more defined by hair. So if they can do their hair the exact same way every single week, every time that I see them, I think it would just help. It helps me remember a little bit because I'm seeing hundreds of people.
Phil: I love that idea. That is a really good idea. And that's branding in a way what you wear how you show up. Oh, that's so smart. And that would probably that advice would carry through actually being on the show in a way. You want to make sure that you are reinforcing how people perceive you, and it should be consistent 100%
Jake: I mean, I've never given that advice to anybody before they've come on the show. But I think that's a really good idea to think about. And also, yeah, for sure I carries through to being on a show, 100%.
Phil: It is almost like, the more your look, varies, the less memorable you are more in terms of your physical appearance, enhancing the experience that someone has of you.
Jake: Yeah, that's 100% true.
Lauren: Yeah, there needs to be visual continuity. Whether it's, you're wearing the same color.
Jake: Yeah, I wouldn't suggest the same color, but same look, similar look.
Lauren: Cool. So let's say you've done the preliminary interviews, you've weeded down to the main people that you're most excited about, what happens next? Do you need to sell them to internally to executives?
Jake: So basically what I do after we've kind of got it down to, you know, a top X number of people a top like 40 or 50, or whatever, we have to go through this is kind of fun as we have to. Not every show is different for everything. But like we, we write little one pagers for everybody. So I think what's important in this, there's no I wouldn't say what you really like focus on this. So if you're applying to something, this is more, this is more my job. But it's we, what I like in a person is if I can really boil down their personality and who they are to make them as two dimensional as possible.
So it's two or three words that really describe them. So for Phil, let's say, I'm gonna boil down your personality. I'm going to say, you're a world traveler, and you're an entrepreneur. I mean, that kind of describes your core. It's really superficial, and there's obviously more to you. But if I'm going to remember you, for the purposes of television, you have to simplify it. I mean, even for a brand, you don't want a full paragraph on who you are right? That's kind of what I have to do. It's like really quick notes, interesting facts, who their family is, where they came from a little bit of what they want to do. I don't want to make it a lot about that. But it's more about who they are and what their stakes are is really important.
And what I mean, when I say stakes, I mean, why is it so important that they get on this show now? If they don't get on the show now, how is their life going to change? Is it going to change for the negative? Mostly, they have to have this change now.
Lauren: You want the stakes high.
Jake: I want the stakes high, because it makes it easier to tell their story. And then it's again, it's the thumbnail of them. It's a picture and maybe a video link to their audition. And so that's basically what I have. An 8x10 piece of paper that I'm giving to an executive producer to say, this is the person and here's why you should like them. And here's what's interesting about them.
So and again to my whole thing with finding a person, what it comes back to, everything falls under the umbrella of being an authentic person and showing your authentic self. I can really tell within 10 seconds of meeting someone or being on the phone with them, if they're trying to sell me on something that they actually aren't, you know what I mean? It's an incredible first impression. That is, it's, it's really important.
Lauren: So, I have a question about casting villains in reality TV. I know this isn't a competition, but if we're thinking about Selling Sunset, if you think about Christine, and the stakes she has, would you say that the stakes are high for her because she doesn't want to be overthrown by Chrishell? I'm thinking, how can you cast a villain? Is this a dumb question?
Jake: No, I think that's a good question. Everybody who is on the show or on any show is, is who they are, to a certain extent. I'm not sure about, you know, more docu soaps and selling such kind of shows. But anybody who you see on TV is, is themselves basically. I've never had an experience where I've said, Oh, we need this person because they're, angry all the time. And people will always say, and this drives me insane is when people are like, you see interviews with people who are on shows and they're the villain because they're awful. Yeah. Um, is, is them being like, Oh, it's editing, they're editing it to make me look like that. I'm like, no, all the time. It's, it's all over the place. It's who they are. They said those things to that person who they're talking to. I've never known of anything being edited in a way that it makes somebody look because I want we want them to look back Yeah, I mean, it's great, what one's direct, and it's great when someone is assertive and really like a leader who's gonna put people in their place. I love that. But I don't think they're a villain.
Lauren: So I guess self awareness is kind of the most important thing because you want to be predictable as a person to whoever's gonna be casting you in the show. If you're a crazy kind of wild card of a person, that's fine, because you're going to be predictably unpredictable, and that's part of who you are.
Jake: Exactly. Yeah, that's really good point. I don't care who you are just as long as you, commit to who you're being.
Phil: So any parting advice for someone who wants to be on TV and is going to go through the application process? How are they going to impress someone like you?
Jake: I think the best thing that I can say is just be yourself. I mean, I'm speaking from through my lens, but, I think that what casting is is finding people who are truly authentic. I want someone who is so themselves that it's painful. You know what I mean? They just don't know anything different. I think someone who's authentic and it is just themselves. That's all you can do. And there's no right thing to do. There's no wrong thing to do. But just be yourself. And that's for life too, just be yourself.
Phil: How can people keep in touch with you if they have questions, if they want to follow you on social media, they want to get more info wink wink. Where can they find you online?
Jake: Oh, sure. I think for professional stuff if anybody wants, advice or if you want to talk to me, my LinkedIn is the best place to go. J. Rehorst. And then I guess Instagram too. There's nothing that good on there though.
Lauren: I think there's a lot of good stuff.
Jake: Thanks, Lauren. There's a picture of Lauren and I on her Instagram. So check that out.
Phil: And if you've enjoyed this episode, we want to hear from you. We've had a little bit of silliness, but hopefully you found it useful as well. Brand Therapy, I should say #brandtherapy to continue conversation. I'm @philpallen across social media.
Lauren: I'm @thelaurenmoore.
Phil: Let's continue the conversation there. If you enjoyed this episode we would love forever if you would leave a review in the iTunes Store five star five star will help other people discover this podcast that we work really hard to create. Well, until next time, this has been a lot of fun. Jake, thank you for hanging out with us.
Jake: It was my pleasure. I love you guys.
Phil: And the listener, thank you. Thank you for putting up with our silliness. And we'll see you next time back here on Brand Therapy.
Lauren: Bye bye