64. A nutritionist who wants to stand out
Is it risky to target a specific market within a competitive field? 🍴 Our guest Bahee is on Brand Therapy to find out! Bahee is a nutritionist who wants to be known for a certain type of clientele. Hosts Lauren and Phil help Bahee weigh the pros and cons of catering your marketing to a particular group. (Spoilers: There aren't as many cons as you'd think.) This episode is great for anyone who works in an ultra-competitive industry and wants to stand out. Enjoy!
Episode transcription
Phil:
Well, hello, welcome to Brand Therapy. I'm Phil.
Lauren:
And I'm Lauren.
Phil:
And this is the podcast where we talk to all kinds of fascinating, interesting people all around the world, specifically tackling their branding or business challenge. And about, I don't know, 20 to 25 minutes, we talk it through, and we leave every guest with some kind of solution, some kind of clarity and direction on where to go with this challenge. And I don't know it's kind of fun. In this podcast, it's like, we think about it. I don't know what is this episode number 60?
Lauren:
64
Phil:
64. Can you imagine? We've done this 64 times all different topics, all different challenges that every guest feels satisfied. We don't hang up the phone until the person is satisfied.
Lauren:
Yeah, we like to solve problems here on Brand Therapy.
Phil:
We do solve problems. What problem are we solving today Lauren Moore?
Lauren:
Wow, I really loved this episode really, really loved it one of my favorites so far. We've got a nutritionist on and we've been lucky to have worked with many nutritionists in the past and is kind of one of our niche areas and nutritionists are definitely one of them.
This nutritionist, however, wants a very interesting spin to her brand, but I don't want to give it away now, but you have to listen to the episode and you'll know what that spin is. But what I love about this episode is it really comes down to envisioning your brand's future to decide how you position your brand now, so really excited.
We've got blog posts while you I'm like talk I'm like, Phil, we've got a blog, as you know about blog posts, but listeners.
Phil:
I know you were gonna bring it up and you just do you, you branch out and tell them all about it.
Lauren:
So the blog post this week is awesome because it's using the exercises that we actually use with clients during brand audits and strategy sessions. And it's the questions we asked to help figure out where you want to be what you really, really want out of your career. So the decisions you make today can affect where you end up. So for example, I don't envision myself giving a TED talk five years from now, I don't want that never have never will. So it wouldn't make sense for me to be looking for speaking opportunities. Now to get my name out there. That's not a good use of my time or energy, if it's something that I don't want to grow. So we'll ask you kind of questions like that in the blog post and give you some exercises to really, really question yourself and get a bit more clarity about your direction.
Phil:
And listen, it's not a replacement for a brand audit. That's always an option and we always give listeners a special discount if you In fact, would like a brand audit with the two of us. So it's not a replacement for that. However, it's certainly better than nothing. It should give you some clarity for those self starters on where to focus and where to prioritize.
Lauren:
Totally. So should we get to it?
Phil:
Shall we? Let's do it. Let's get to the conference. You and I say the same thing.
Lauren:
Ready for a delicious conversation?
Phil:
Here's our delicious conversation with Bahee.
Bahee:
My name is Bahee. And my challenge is that I'd love more people to find my services. And often people tell me that they just type for my services like nutritionist or pediatric dietitian. And that's how they find me. But no one ever really finds me on social media with other people find me through word of mouth, but I'd really love to have more people find me. So that's sort of my challenge if you like, and I'd really love to know, should I just work on getting clients to my website somehow? Or should I still have a good presence on social media? How important is that?
Phil:
Wonderful? Well, we can definitely help you with that. It'll be important for us to learn a little bit more about your business and to kind of assess together what potential exists online. I guess, to kick things off, how are people finding you now?
Bahee:
It is really very much through Google search. I do get some client referrals, but it's mostly Google.
Phil:
Mostly Google. Wow. Wow. Can you drill down on more specifics, like is it certain blog posts you have or they're typing in the key word and you're popping up, what is it?
Bahee:
They usually say that they type in pediatric dietitian or nutritionist or just dietitian and I know that for most of those key words I am on the first page for some reason. And that's how most people find me.
Phil:
Great.
Lauren:
Cool. Really cool. Well, I guess I'm wondering if we should talk about this. I'm wondering if you even need social media as a way to get the word out. I know for us, we recommend social media as a means for helping you stand out for building a following. And the goal really is to convert it to website visits or to even newsletter signups. And so I was just kind of wondering if maybe focusing more on offerings to build up your newsletter might be a good avenue for you, given that Google's already working in your favor.
Bahee:
Okay, so at the moment, I have an opt in for a guide on sugar. And I have a couple of different opt ins, but that's the most popular one. I've been really trying to promote it by social media, Facebook, that sort of thing, which is where most people have found it. I just feel like I’m missing something. Do I need to do more to try and promote it or have I just not got the right opt in for people to get signed up for.
Lauren:
Which social media platforms are you posting on right now?
Bahee:
I do a little bit on Facebook and a little bit on Instagram. I'm on LinkedIn.
Lauren:
Okay, and how often are you posting on Facebook and Instagram?
Bahee:
I admit I'm not very consistent. When I get really busy particularly with client work or other duties, that definitely slips. So when I'm doing really well it will be three to four times a week, but if I'm really busy, maybe only once a week. I know it isn’t perfect.
Lauren:
No, that's okay. I can hear the shame in your voice.
Phil:
Don't worry, this is a shame free zone, because actually, trust me, I feel the same way. We all feel this way about our own social media, you know, and sometimes it does have to take a backseat, because you have to every day adjust what your priorities are, right? We can't just go in order of our to do list from oldest to newest, because sometimes more important things happen. And sometimes client work gets in the way.
But client work is how you get paid. And Instagram posts are not necessarily how you get paid. Not that that's the only thing that matters, but sometimes it does. So this will be kind of an interesting thing. Obviously, consistency will help you on social media. But I'm curious to know how ways in which you've secure clients now might lead to opportunities where people can find you in this way on social media. Do you kind of agree Lauren, where's your head at?
Lauren:
Yeah, I'm almost wondering if we should be figuring out what content is working right. Now Yep. And so that way, there's a bit more of a strategy in place. So have you ever looked at your Instagram analytics before?
Bahee:
Every now and then I was actually listening to a few of your podcast episodes last night. And it reminded me to look at my analytics. So I did. And I can see that post where it’s a bit more like an infographic based, I can see that people tend to save that more, or that draws in a bit more profile visits than other posts. I've seen quite a lot. I used to put pictures of what the kids were eating whereas now it’s more an information type post, just because you know, sort of repurpose that from any blog post that I've written up. It just seems easier that way. But I don't know if I'm a bit lazy and perhaps whether I should try and think of more original content to put on Instagram, for example.
Lauren:
Well, possibly but I almost think that instead of profile visits, while profile visits are really valuable, we find that the most valuable metric to look at is engagement rate. So have you heard of an engagement rate before?
Bahee:
Not really.
Lauren:
An engagement rate is kind of like a level playing field when it's comparing all of your posts because it's a rate a percentage instead of focusing on hard numbers. And so for an engagement rate, what it is measuring ultimately, is the amount of people who engage with your posts out of on Instagram, it's, I believe, the amount of followers that you have, but on other platforms, it's based on the amount of people who actually see the posts. And the reason why this is important is because there's so many algorithms that play and things aren't sorted chronologically anymore.
In order to get an idea of what will get your content shown, you need to understand what's doing well from the people who see the post. So I would actually focus on engagement rate, first and foremost, and look for the commonalities there with your content. And because if your engagement rate is high, then Instagram and Facebook too, will be more likely to show your posts to more people, because quantitatively more people are responding well to it out of whoever sees it.
Bahee:
So what's the percentage of engagement rate that you'd sort of assumed is a good rate? Is there such a thing?
Lauren:
There is on Facebook, it's incredibly low, it seems very low. But generally, an engagement rate of like 3% is considered to be pretty good. And so that's kind of your starting point. I'm not totally sure what it would be for Instagram, to be honest, I would recommend actually looking at whatever like creating your own benchmark. So look at your top five posts, for example, see what the engagement rates are there and then calculate that and use that as your benchmark for what good is. Then for Twitter, usually, because Twitter moves like rapid speed. Usually an engagement rate of like 1.5% or higher, I've heard is considered to be like a good kind of baseline.
Phil:
And for Instagram, Instagram is a bit higher than the others. Normally I've heard again, these are just honestly things I've learned, I've heard and research we've done for the work we do, but three to 6%, I've heard is considered good on Instagram. But I like Lauren's idea better of creating your own benchmark based on your own post just because it's posted somewhere online or you read it in a report or it's in a blog post, doesn't mean it's right. It's the same thing if somebody says, oh, post your stuff on Thursday...based on what? So I would say definitely go the route of creating your own benchmark. So then you've got something to measure.
Phil:
Okay, time for a little pause. Lauren, what do listeners have to look forward to beyond just this little podcast episode?
Lauren:
Oh man, I'm so glad you asked that question because the blog post this week is all about looking forward. So we've created a blog post about how to envision your brand's future. When a client comes to us for a brand audit consultation, generally, the biggest question is like, Where am I going like, what is ahead for me? Where am I going to be in five years? And why am I hustling now? What do I have to look forward to? So essentially, this blog post helps you ask the right questions to figure out where you want to go.
So it includes really simple questions for how to conduct a competitive analysis, how to understand where you want to bring, like get the most money in terms of income sources, it helps you figure out what it is that you like doing and want to do more of. So we go through all those questions in the blog post. By the end of the post our hope is that you have complete clarity over what you want out of this little life of ours and what sort of legacy you want your brand to have.
Phil:
Absolutely. It's so easy as entrepreneurs personal brands right to get caught up in the day today. Like what do we have to tick off our to do list today that sometimes we forget to think of a big picture? What is your goal? What are you trying to achieve in the long run one year five years out? So this blog post is for you.
Lauren:
And Phil, where can you find this blog post?
Phil:
philpallen.co/resources That's where it's going to be.
Lauren:
Great. Back to the episode.
Bahee:
Should I be looking at the engagement rate of other professionals in this same area as me are doing well. Like what their posts are doing in comparison or would that be not appropriate.
Lauren:
You definitely can for research to get really granular, what I'd recommend doing is look at two metrics to calculate your engagement rate. So first I would look at Instagram, I would look at your engagement, and then look just generally like, jot down what the general post is and the number that's in front of it. And then I would scroll down in the analytics and look at impressions. And then all you want to do is just match up the posts.
So you want to take the engagement number you've got divide it by the amount of impressions and then you got a specific hard number for yourself. And from there just monitor over time. But really, by looking at what people like, out of the total number of people who see it, that's kind of like a good way to kind of game the algorithms and get an understanding of what it really is that your audience wants. If you get a post with 100 likes, and it was seen by 1000 people compared to a post with 95 likes that was seen by 150 people, even though the 95 likes our less, it was seen by less people.
So it's actually more effective. So that's just, that's all we're just trying to figure out is real is how to bring the most emotional connection from a post from anyone who sees it.
Bahee:
Gotcha. I feel like social media isn't so natural to me, I say that my younger sister who had to literally show me how to use stories a couple of years ago. So it's something that I'm still learning and enjoying it a lot more than I used to. But at the same time, I always think, you know, how is this relevant to my business or people getting to know me? And although on is it okay, if I do change a little bit to ask you a question around? Should I be focusing on my name or as a brand name? Or is that not really anything to do with a brand?
Phil:
Hmm, yeah, it's gonna be different for everyone. I think for you, your personal brand is a big part of why people come to you, right? Actually, for everyone normally their personal brand is their reputation, one of the reasons that people go to them. So in this case, particularly on social media, people prefer to work with humans as opposed to brands. So when possible brand as, you, when possible, particularly as a professional to open that streamline of communication, that's always going to work in your favor because people want information.
Bahee:
Okay, I'm glad. I'm glad because I did start a very small podcast. This year as a test of another way of reaching parents and I did it more socially with my name trying to get my name out there. And I did wonder if that is choosing the right direction, because I sort of feel a little bit like lost in the branding side of things if you like. So there's just so many things to think of. Audio, your website name, your brand name,then there's yourself as a person. And then of course, all of these other things that you put out there just quite a lot of different elements to the business when you’re first starting out. It can start to become a bit overwhelming to decide where do you really focus?
Phil:
Yeah, it can be. And you know, I like to say that pressure goes away but kind of doesn't. Even after you have a brand you have additional pressure. And you have a tendency to want to kind of show up everywhere, but it's not always possible. I think you have a good sense, though, of how people are finding you why they're finding you what they need. That at the end of the day should be the focus the priority, even on social media. Use social media to give it purpose in a way that maybe you aren't now, so it doesn't become less important. So I'll give you an example.
I don't know why more people don't do this. But why can't your Instagram account double as you writing a book. So every day a caption could be the next paragraph of your book doesn't have to be verbatim but so let's say your dream has always been to write a book, then why don't you sit down and map it out on a Sunday afternoon when you've got time to yourself and think how can I every day, create one little piece of content that will get me towards that goal. So then after, you know, copy over those Instagram captions, and then you've, you're well on your way to writing a book.
That's one way of prioritizing it, you know, as something related to your goals. Or there's nothing wrong, by the way is I want to make more money as a business. I want to be more profitable. Okay, well, who specifically were the last 510 clients that hired you? Who are they? Where do they spend their time? And if Instagram is one of those places, then how do I get in front of them? If the Chamber of Commerce is one of those places?
How do you get in front of them is social media isn't the magic solution to everything, it often does play into our strategy because it's doable, and it's just You know, normally a good solution for small businesses, personalities, personal brands, but doesn't always have to take over. It doesn't always have to be a super major priority. It all depends on who you want to get in front of. Does that make sense?
Bahee:
Yes. And I really like the idea or the concept of planning it out in advance, and then sort of rolling it out like the story this message. But then that means getting very organized, which can be really challenging with, but yes, no, I think I love the idea. And it's just putting it in the diary. needs to be an economy to get it done.
Lauren:
Yep, exactly. Exactly. Social media really is about organization.
Bahee:
I know that Pinterest, I really loved it. I've heard you talk about Pinterest. I really loved it. And I sort of was trying to use it a little bit every day, but then I just got out of habit. Again, is that question long should I just focus on that and it acts like a search engine or am I overthinking this? Or just you know, show up on Instagram and Facebook?
Phil:
Well. Okay, so let's make this simple. Pinterest I think is actually the easiest platform for you because you've already got a website, you already know that people are finding you through Google. Pinterest is a way to take your blog posts, and essentially give them a visual identity and get them on Pinterest. Now, if you don't have a lot of followers on Pinterest, then there won't be a huge amount of traffic to start. But if 5,10 minutes a day, or even every other day, once a week to start, I don't care. You go on Pinterest, and maybe this coincides with your strategy to find content to repurpose.
Let's say on Instagram, you want to share an article that you like about something you could look for that on Pinterest, you can look for visuals, tools, Pinterest recipes, Pinterest has all kinds of cool things on it. It's important to not just post your own stuff you might have heard me talk about. But it's also important to repin other people's stuff really important that you're not only creating but curating really important. So the more you curate and repin of other people's, the faster you'll grow an audience in which you can then market to.
Once you've got that captive audience took me about a year to get to 20,000 followers just by spending five minutes a day. And now I have a captive audience where I can pin my own content, mix it in the good stuff that I repin from other people. And boom, that's a traffic source evergreen for could be years to come, which you cannot do on Facebook, or Instagram.
Bahee:
Should I repin work from other professionals in my industry as well because, you know, at least I know that the content is very credible, or would that be defeating the purpose a little bit?
Phil:
No, I think you could. People are sometimes worried about repinning competitors stuff, but if it's something you believe in, if it's something that you agree with, then I don't think there's any harm. I don't think it necessarily promotes them, but I don't think it really matters. I think it's more that it aligns with you and your brand repin it. It would be very different if you took their headshot and put on your Instagram and say I love this person, go hire them. But on Pinterest to repin something I don't see it as a big deal to repin something from your competition. I really don't.
Bahee:
Okay, that's a great tip. I actually had completely forgotten about repinning. So I certainly put that into the action plan. That's very important. It is yes. And just getting out. It is very important.
Phil:
Okay, great. We talked about an action plan. I don’t think that we've talked about what your next steps are.
Bahee:
Well, like I said, I started this podcast this year, which I really enjoyed because a lot of it brought up opportunities in slightly different ways. Like speaking opportunities. But also I'm on a panel for an organic farm and where my target audience live and work around, to that I've been asked to write a piece for a magazine for my colleagues. Hopefully, that might generate some referrals. I originally created the podcast to get in the earbuds of more parents, but actually brought up a different kind of work that I wasn't expecting. So I've been really enjoying it. That's great.
And I do more speaking gigs, because that's things that I've done more at a professional level, to my colleagues at conferences and things, but I’d love to do more speaking to the public. And that's a skill that I'd really love to work on.
Lauren:
I think it sounds like you, you're doing all the right things. You just need to keep it up. I think with consistency on social media, it'll help you with more of the unexpected engagements coming up like the ones you referenced, but I think it could also help you get a better understanding of the content opportunities out there. You might be inspired by a surprise reaction to one of your posts. And it could just keep taking your career further.
bahee:
Yes. And there is an area that I'm really interested in, and I'm hesitating about that I want to niche down in it. But I know there aren't a lot of others with that relevant expertise. But I'm worried that by niching down in that area, I might be closing the doors on areas of work that I do really enjoy and do have the skills and but then I always hear about it so important to specialize. Do you agree?
Phil:
Yes. In short, yes, I think that just because you have a niche doesn't tell your audience that you don't do other things. You know, so think about how that relates to your work if there's one particular topic that you're passionate about. I've seen time and time again, especially in healthcare nutrition, where people have kind of owned one particular topic and they grow faster as the expert in that space. So I'm always more on the side of niche than not. That's what I'll say.
Bahee:
Okay. Okay. Definitely that, in fact, more than any recommendations for how often I should be putting out content? Normally it's just twice a month, because that's all I can realistically fit in. But do you think it's important to think about increasing how often you put out content?
Phil:
Only if it's sustainable? Only if it's sustainable? You don't want to go all in and then all of a sudden, after one week, you can't keep it up. So just one thing at a time I say to Lauren, I'm like, Oh, the plan this week is to create three videos and 800 tweets, and she's like, Okay, let's do one video, and two tweets, and she's right. Bahee: But I started being really motivated, blog post with the podcast and a YouTube video and I did it like once and I was like, oh my god. This is completely taking me so much time I cannot keep this up. So it's just a blog post and a podcast episode which is realistic, I think.
Yeah, absolutely. I think this is a good little plan for you. I like all of these things that we've discussed. You have to promise that you circle back with us to let us know how all of this goes.
Bahee:
I will. Thank you so much. I have to say I love the music that you play on the podcast cuz it's so soothing and relaxing at work.
Lauren:
Thank you so much.
Phil:
Thank you. Oh, you're gonna hear it with your own voice. Isn't that going to be trippy?
Bahee:
Hahah! Thank you so much.
Phil:
Thank you so much. Thank you for taking time to hang out with us on Brand Therapy and we'll chat with you soon.
Phil:
Bahee had lots of questions, but we have some solutions for her, which is great.
Lauren:
Yeah. What do you think her main question was? What was the main discovery?
Phil:
I think she just, I mean, probably how to get seen on social media, or how this becomes a tool that she needs to prioritize. As you know, she also needs to be other places her website, you know, showing up to things in person, all these types of things like the importance of social media, and how that can become a tool where people find her.
Lauren:
Yeah, I agree.
Phil:
I think people make the foolish mistake of thinking, though, that being seen is the only thing, you know what I mean?
Lauren:
It's definitely why people will throw a lot of money into boosting their Facebook posts without really putting any thought into what it is that they're boosting in the first place.
Phil:
Yeah, yeah. Now there is on the contrary to that, I was thinking about this earlier to myself. I posted an Instagram this morning. And even if my message or my photo wasn't directly related to business, I know that I have made an impression on people. It doesn't mean they're going to buy from me tomorrow. But it means that they've spent some of their day thinking about me.
And that, then compounds, right after a year, you follow someone you feel like you know them, that does have an effect over time. It really does. I know people feel that way about me, they meet me in real life, or they read the book or whatever. You know, we've had guests in the past people or just in general clients that we've only ever worked with online and you meet in real life. It's like, Oh, I feel like I know you.
You know, social media does have a really powerful way of forming connections. So it really comes down to priorities, it can also take over your life.
Lauren:
Yeah, ultimately, I think that it doesn't matter if you're seen it just matters if people care. If you look at something like engagement, right, like we discussed on this episode, then you can really drill down to the percentage of people who react to your post in an emotional way, instead of just focusing on the large numbers of who saw it. I think it's arguably worse if like a million people saw your content but didn't feel anything or do anything when they see your posts versus like 1000 people seeing your content but truly engaging with it and loving it.
Phil:
Very good point, looking at engagement rate, you can drill down on something tangible, like you said, the percentage of people who react who care, I think it's a good metric. It's just a good metric to look at and to measure whether you use a program some kind of software to do it or whether you do it on your own in an excel spreadsheet. I've seen both ways. But if you can, if you have the time and the bandwidth and its priority, make the time to do that. We'd love to hear from you. What do you think? What do you think about our conversation with Bahee? Find us online. I'm @philpallen.
Lauren:
I’m @thelaurenmoore
Phil:
#brandtherapy is where you'll find us and continue the conversation. If you liked this episode, I have a quick little favor to ask of you. I ask it all the time and I'm going to ask it again. Good audience, leave a review. A positive one that helps other people discover this podcast that we work very, very hard to make. Well, that's it for us today. But we'll be back very soon with a brand new episode. We will see you then, right here on Brand Therapy. Thanks today for hanging out with us. We'll see you next time.
Lauren:
See you next time.
