62. A tour guide who wants to be a musician
Is it possible to merge two completely different careers? 🗺️ In this episode, Phil and Lauren say yes! This week, we're on with Gal, a tour guide with a passion for music and travel. Our guest equally loves both career paths and is wondering how to pursue both simultaneously. In this episode, we teach Gal how to find common themes between his passions to present a united brand sentence. A great episode for anyone with multiple passions!
Episode transcription
Phil:
Hello there. Welcome to Brand Therapy. I'm Phil.
Lauren:
And I'm Lauren.
Phil:
And we are brand therapists here to help you with your biggest branding and business challenges. Here's how it works. Someone calls us on the phone, we spend about 20 minutes together, they outline their biggest challenge right now. We work through it together helpful for them. Also, hopefully helpful for you. By the way, you picked a good episode. I'm glad you're here. Oh, yeah, I'm really glad.
Lauren:
I'm so glad that you're here too. And before we get into the episode, I just want to remind our lovely listeners that philpallen.co/resources has a whole bunch of free stuff, and you've got to go check it out.
Phil:
Free stuff. So we started doing this, this year. Now, when we do a podcast episode, we treat it as our long form piece of content. And then we also in addition to give you this podcast episode, we give you a blog post and some kind of worksheet digital download ebook type of thing. So go check that out. While you're checking that out, you can keep your headphones on and keep listening to this great conversation. Okay, I just about died.
Lauren:
Can we keep that in please?
Phil:
Yeah, if you want to.
Lauren:
It just makes you more human, a reminder of your mortality. You're choking?
Phil:
I'm waiting for you to do some epic segue into our themed conversation with Gal.
Lauren:
Well don't hold your breath, because we got an episode coming right up.
Phil:
Oh, like should we do it? Should we do it or do you got any you got anything else up your sleeve.
Lauren:
Let's just end this. I think this is our sloppiest intro ever! Sorry Gal.
Phil:
Let's get to it. Here's our conversation with Gal.
Gal:
Okay, so my name is Gal and my biggest challenge is that I have two piloting careers that I love very much and I don’t know how I can fit them together as one.
Phil:
Gal. welcome to Brand Therapy. We're so happy to have you before we dive right in. Tell me where in the world you are right now.
Gal:
I'm in the desert of Israel in the Negev in a place called Midstay.
Phil:
Wow, what are you doing there?
Gal:
I am with a family of tourists and we just came back from a stargazing.
Phil:
Wow. So it's actually the time that we're recording this it's the middle of the night for you. And this is such an interesting branding challenge. And we've had people ask us about this before, right? You're juggling multiple careers or different facets or verticals, how do we merge it? Should we merge it? How do we prioritize? That's exactly what we shall discuss today.
Gal:
Definitely.
Lauren:
So my first question, what are the two careers that you love?
Gal:
Okay, so one thing is my dream. I make music. I am a singer songwriter. I already released an album I produce stuff I perform. That's one. The second thing is that I'm a tour guide,I take people to cool places. I'm a nature boy. I have a vehicle that I take people with to the cool places in the country.
Lauren:
Perfect. And before we decide or make any big branding decisions about you know two careers that are happening simultaneously. I want to know, looking forward, five or ten years from now, do you see yourself doing both jobs still?
Gal:
The answer is yes. And that's the thing. When I do only one of the things, I feel that it's not enough because for me, being a tour guide, is my way to kind of refuel myself to meet with people to be inspired by places and, you know, to experience. To give musicians my output is where I can really express myself and to create. I am a very creative person, so I'm inspired by topics that I deal with the target and the tour guide. I'm inspired by music and creative stuff. So something like that, I guess.
Phil:
I think it's cool that you found and juggled two jobs that you really enjoy. I think that's probably unique. I mean, we have people ask us, should I merge? You know, we talked about this all the time, but I kind of love that you've come to us with two careers coexisting that you really enjoy. And so even when you set your goals, 5-10 years in advance, or even one year in advance, you're kind of like, yeah, I want to do and grow what I'm already doing and that's a really good position to be in.
Gal:
Yeah, you know, like some people ask me, what do you want to do in the future and say, sometimes I say just, you know, I want to do this but better and bigger, something like that.
Lauren:
So do you have an online brand currently? Is there anything out there?
Gal:
I would say that this as a musician, I brand myself more. You know, I try to promote myself. I have a YouTube channel I have Spotify. All of my music is done on all of the streaming services. As a tour guide I have a very small page like business page and Facebook, because I am already working a lot as a tour guide, so I kind of keep it low and just from my friends or my colleagues, I pick up the you know, the gigs I want.
Lauren:
Got it. Got it.
Lauren:
Can you think of any examples of people who effectively brand for two different careers?
Phil:
Look at you setting me up. Don't act like you don't know the answer to that question, because I know you do!
Lauren:
I was trying to seem like it was impromptu.
Phil:
Yeah. Well, you failed at that.
Gal:
You asked this question and I feel that my heartbeat is like becoming a bit intense because, for me, the answer is probably no. And from what I know, from what I search, and that's my fear. My fear is that if I do both, I will brand myself as both. I might seem like, you know, amateur and I might seem like someone that's not a professional. And actually, for a few years that I'm not, I'm avoiding to do both. But when I'm doing this, you know, when I'm not combining it in, like I'm hiding part of my identity, I see that I'm kind of, you know, it's lying, and it's actually no.
Phil:
Guess what Gal? I have good news for you. That is not what we're going to tell you. And here's why we're not going to tell you that. Every question, you know, from this podcast from any conversation we have, whether we're recording or we're working one on one with a client, the advice or strategy that we provide is always going to be based on one important thing, and that is your goals. So the fact that you've said to us, I really enjoyed doing these two things. Even in a few minutes of chatting, we've already started to explore what connects those two things.
Our advice is actually you know, let's say explore away that these can coexist, because, as you've said, you've reaffirmed five years from now, one year from now, honestly, you'd be happy doing the same thing. If we can find a way to grow each vertical each side of you, then we can do that. So Lauren set me up, because I've given this advice before, not on the podcast, but to clients. There's one example that I think of for someone who has effectively branded themselves as an expert in two areas. Okay. And this is the example we're going to give you.
This is a brand that you can be strongly inspired by. It's a personal brand, which is going to be great because that's what we're going to talk about next. It's someone by the name of Adham Dannaway, and I love that this guy's website has literally not changed for years. This design, you'd look at it and you wouldn't even know because it's still very relevant now, I know you're in the middle of desert. So I don't know if you can pull him up on the phone, you might have to wait until we're done chatting. But anyone who's listening, if you've got a computer in front of you got your phone, then go ahead and check out this guy's website, which really honestly, the design hasn't changed for years.
It was a very kind of progressive design, won some awards, years previous. And it's one that I have looked back on, you know, and I've recommended this to people who are juggling two facets of their brand. Adam is not only a designer, but he's also a coder. And in a very creative, visual way, he's shown us proof of concept that he's capable of beautiful design, but also paired with the know how to code. I mean, it's pretty rare to find someone who is good at both of those things. Now, for him, it's a little bit different because he's almost taking two opposites in a career, right and saying I actually do both of these well.
So yours is a little different, because what you do is not necessarily opposites. But over the next few minutes, it'll be interesting for us to explore. And Lauren will be really good at this to figure out what are the common threads between what you do and how do we really kind of rock a personal brand.
The last thing to say to you, before we discuss is you've got a really unique name, right? You've got a pretty unique name. And so that's going to give us some solidified real estate online. I think we build a personal brand for you strongly inspired by someone like Adam, who effectively tells us you are really good at two things. And here's kind of the common thread between what you do. That's what I'm thinking. Gal: That's cool. I'm curious to grow with it, to learn more.
Lauren:
So I think, let's start exploring how we can find commonalities between your tour guide career and your music career. So my first question for you is when someone has you as a tour guide, and it's a really successful tour, what's the feedback that you usually get?
Gal:
You know, it's interesting, because I feel that I've done a little bit of homework about it. And I already thought about it. But answering your question when people happy about my work as a tour guide, they usually say that I'm sensitive that I'm very nice and they say that I'm knowledgeable, I guess.
Lauren:
Great. And then one question.
Phil:
Yeah. And there's no right answer. I like how you're just exploring it. It's not like black or white, right? Like we're kind of just exploring just from Lauren is kind of guiding you to give us what is some proof that you're good at what you do that you love to do, what you do what other people said about you, you know, that helps us kind of understand, maybe what makes you different than someone else in that role.
Lauren:
Yeah, exactly. And when you get feedback from people on your music. What do they usually say?
Gal:
That say that I'm very creative. People like my influences that it's very nostalgic music. And it's a very authentic. I think that that authentic is something that is an often compliment that I get and raw, I guess.
Lauren:
Perfect.
Phil:
Okay, it's that time in the podcast where we take a little break, take a breather. Lauren, tell us what we have queued up this week beyond just this excellent conversation.
Lauren:
Maybe I'm just inspired by gals passion for life, but I'm feeling really good about our content this week. Let me tell you what we've got. For our blog post, we've got personal brand statement examples. These are real clients that we've worked with to develop really effective, long lasting personal brand statements. Check it out for inspiration. And our free download this week is a personal brand statement formula worksheet. So after you check out all the amazing clients and you know, want it for yourself, just download the worksheet and you'll get to our top secret formula.
Phil:
Probably the number one motivator for people to come on the podcast and share this little conversational moment with us. Right they come to us and say, help me write my sentence. How do I sum it all up? In a sense, would you do so beautifully? Now? We're telling people the secret sauce? Yeah, it's wild. How many people want a positioning statement? Now you can do it at home we give you the exact formula like a little mad libs, you know little remember those. Yeah, like dating myself with that reference. Lauren: I remember. I'm also dating myself right there with you.
Phil:
Oh boy. Before we date ourselves even more, we better get back to our Conversation with Gal.
Lauren:
So what's wonderful about your responses to both of those questions Is that a lot of the words that you use could really apply to both tour guide and musician. So for example, like creative, nostalgic, authentic, inspired, that was feedback for your music, but that can actually be also used to describe your tour guide experience, right?
So it's like if you're looking for to be inspired, and to really have a true authentic experience of Israel in a creative way that no one else has experienced Gal is your guy, or you know what the sort of inverse could be sad for your music, like your music could be seen as really inspired, sensitive, emotional, and so I think by really figuring out the best way to describe you and your capabilities, the kind of like two different worlds will just make more sense together. The way I see it is that you create music and you also create experiences. And that can, you know, really dip nicely into both areas.
Gal:
Yeah, it makes sense to me. But my question is about, like, when you think of practically a website, like I have, so basically the branding is going more on the personality and about me like it's right. Am I right? about it?
Lauren:
Yep.
Phil:
Correct. You are 100% correct. Okay, here's why I don't even need to know anything more about you to know that a big part of why someone hires you to do a tour is because of you because of your personality. Another big reason why someone would listen and enjoy and repeat listen to your music is because of you. Obviously music creation of music is you know, pretty personal. It's pretty unique to you. So all signs are pointing to the direction of a personal brand, it's very rare nowadays that a solo artist would not brand as their name, right. And again, you've got a unique name. So it makes sense to just kind of hit two birds with one stone, and rock a personal brand that for now is divided between the two things that you're really passionate about tour guiding and working as a musician.
And so I love this idea of highlighting experiences, giving people experiences. You also used the word nostalgia, which I would love to see up here in the copy on your site, like talking about what that means to you, and maybe the importance and the significance of nostalgia. I mean, that is absolutely something that is relevant for travel. Right. So when you're giving a tour, I mean, you become a big part of someone's trip, right? You become a big part of the way that they create that memory from their vacation. So I think nostalgia is huge.
You said to yourself, I'm not gonna act like I came up with that word. You said it. I just heard it. And I love that word paired with what Lauren described. So to get your opinion on that what matters less is a list of credentials, like, I'm a musician, I've done this. I've done this. I've done this. No one cares what you've done. No one really cares what you know how many times you've given a tour, it might be interesting, but it's not going to make or break it. But to hear something more personal, an anecdote from someone else I can guarantee one of your biggest sources of work now is referral, right? When someone experiences something positively, they tell their friends. And so same with music, so I so nostalgia is an interesting theme for you to explore. Experience, your perspective on that is an interesting theme for you to explore. And like I said, We'd love to take credit for all these big ideas, but really, we're just listening to what you're telling us in conversation. You know, which is the beauty of this?
Gal:
It's actually it's a direction that I didn't think about. And I like it a lot. Like one word that I thought about and it seems to me like a cliche nowadays, like, and it's like, well, maybe over you, and that's inspiration because what I feel that's like, maybe I didn't and then as you asked me or I said that but what I feel that my goal is in both areas, why I do what I do is because I want to make people be more inspired. I want people to experience stuff and to be to be wow, you know, I maybe I don't have the words right now because it's after a long day, of course working but I just want to inspire people. That's why I thought about that word. But what do you think?
Phil:
No, we're we're intentionally not interrupting you because it's these thoughts after thoughts that usually give us the ammo we need to brand as actively and responsibly. So that's Why we let you go on and on? I'm not worried about cliches.
Lauren:
I'm not either.
Phil:
I'm just not worried. Not at all. It's like literally the last worry that I have the last thing I'm worried about. Is that English? I don't even know.
Lauren:
Yeah. But I think really to sum it up, you teach people how to listen, and look. So and you help people, through through experience, really feel the here and now. So I think with language like that, it would be really easy to because I can tell that you're a very sort of organized thinker, and you're wondering, okay, so this is great, but how do I put this into a website like, how does this actually happen? But I think that by again, looking for those commonalities, and with you it’s kind of the center of it all. It's going to happen really naturally.
So I'm imagining a website where the top copy and at the very top is I create music, and I create experiences and then a description about why you as a tour guide, and you as a musician are two separate parts of something that are both very important to you and that you could never let go of either one and explain. You help people really experience life and feel the here and now through music, but also through very intentionally crafted tour experiences that can change their life. So and then and then you could just have a simple website where it's the homepage is drawing those parallels for people and an over way, and then have inner pages where one inner page is dedicated to your music and one inner page is dedicated to your tour guide experiences.
Gal:
Wow. Yeah, that sounds like the right thing to do to me. When I listen to my you know what, what I want from inside. That's what I want.
Lauren:
Good. And it's the authentic thing to do to what you said was really important to you. I can tell you that If you were to give up on tour guiding, then you would be very sad. And the same thing, if you were to give up on music, you'd be very sad. They're both parts of you that can't be ignored. So I think by putting it together in the form of a brand, it would help satisfy both of those careers.
Phil:
Yes. So, I mean, we've arrived at some good little conclusions here and some thoughts because, honestly, you've been super open to exploring this, you know, in a way that's going to make sense for your brand. I get excited. The final thought I have here, I get excited about the way that you can cross promote each one. So for example, how cool is it going to be to give people a song, you know, or maybe you share a single with a download link to each person who does one of your tours or for your album artwork for your next album, maybe it's taken on you know, are in one of the locations that you do tours in starts to cross promote both as you effectively grow an audience and interest in each brand. That's really cool, right? Creativity, with that kind of cross promotion will help people remember you, it will help you stand out. So that's the final little kind of footnote I wanted to share on that. But I'm excited to see what you do with this.
Gal:
Yeah, I'm also me, you know, the conclusion you came up with is definitely, to me the summit of expectations. Like, that's where I want to go. That's what I want to do. So hopefully, yeah, it sounds you know, that this is the way I should go.
Phil:
Well, we've given you some homework, some action steps, right to go and take this. So you have to promise after you build a home for all of this, you know, maybe a Squarespace website or something like this on a platform that you've got full control over, make sure you update us on all of your progress, and then we can share it with the listeners as well.
Gal:
I would love to and I really appreciate your time and what you do is really, really like was a little bit like yeah, it's therapy. You know, it's what you guys do that's very unique. It means a lot to me. Thank you so much.
Lauren:
And thank you for being so open and honest.
Phil:
Exactly. It lets us just do our best work when someone is as open and positive as you are. It really makes what we do such a pleasure. So thank you for hanging out with us on Brand Therapy Gal and please keep us posted with everything.
Gal:
I will. Yeah. Thank you so much.
Phil:
Beautiful go get some sleep. You've earned it. Chat with you soon.
Lauren:
Go to bed.
Gal:
I will.
Phil:
Awesome. Thanks, Gal chat soon.
Gal:
Bye.
Phil:
Look at you working your branding wizardry, how about that?
Lauren:
You’re so kind? Say it more?
Phil:
No? Well, okay, but here's, here's my point. Based on that conversation with Gal, how helpful is it to just get out of your own head and talk to a stranger or a duo strangers about ideas you have, because sometimes our biggest challenge is ourselves. We get in our own way. I feel like that conversation was a perfect example of how talking it out, hearing some fresh perspectives really kind of helps. I don't know, get some clarity on prioritizing and put things in perspective.
Lauren:
Yeah, I think you're right. Especially because people will often go to like close friends and family if they have a question about something or something they're contemplating. And I mean, of course, having a support network you go to for feedback is great. But the thing is, your support network is on your team 100% and they are gonna kind of tailor their answer to make you feel good and make you feel happy, right?
But just necessarily mean that it's the right answer. I feel like asking a stranger and getting potentially some tough love is way better than asking, I don't know, friends or family, people you already know for advice on things.
Phil:
It's true. I often give the analogy at conferences and stuff, I say, rather than asking mom or grandma, ask a stranger at a dog park, would you use this? You know, would you think about hiring someone for this? Because they don't know you? They have no vested interest or they're not afraid to hurt your feelings. Hopefully. Honesty is the most important thing.
Lauren:
Yeah, totally. So Phil, let's talk about what's on the blog this week.
Phil:
Let's talk about it, I mean, you wrote it, talk.
Lauren:
It was a group effort. So if you are experiencing the same confusion that Gal was experiencing what direction he could go with his brand, our blog post this week is going to be really helpful for you. It's personal brand statement examples. So as part of these examples, we give real examples of clients and people we've worked with, who have been confused about the direction of their brand, who haven't known how to tie a bow on top of everything that they're good at. And so these are some real examples that will hopefully give you direction and clarity.
Phil:
I love this. This is so useful for people. This is one of the exercises we do in a brand audit, we give people kind of like, concisely in one sentence or two sentences, boom. This is how you say who you are, why people should care. So this blog post will help you kind of through that exercise on your own.
Lauren:
Yeah, it's it's so fascinating, because pretty much every brand audit that we do, and pretty much every podcast recording that we do, everyone has this challenge. Like this is a unanimous challenge. No matter where you are in your career, people do not know how to describe themselves in their work concisely. It's fascinating.
Phil:
No, it's always easy for us to describe others but then when it comes to ourselves, it's a lot harder because you are the brand you are not removed from it at the same time. I'm happy it's hard because this is how what keeps me employed. So I'm glad thank God. I'm glad it keeps being difficult cuz Hello.
Lauren:
Yeah, me too.
Phil:
What do you think of this episode if you listened and enjoyed it, we want to hear from you. I mean, if you listened and didn't enjoy it, we also want to hear from you.
Lauren:
Yes, please tell us.
Phil:
But if you enjoyed it, we would be so grateful if you took a few minutes, not even a few minutes, a few seconds to head over to iTunes to leave us a review. A few people have done that recently by the way in the new year. I'm so grateful. Go and do that. You may even get a special shout out on the podcast, but ideally five stars that helps other people discover the podcasts that we work very hard to create. We're also very active on social media. I am @philpallen.
Lauren:
I'm @thelaurenmoore.
Phil:
#brandtherapy is where we can continue the conversation. And you know how this works. We'll be back next week with a brand new topic. We look forward to it. We'll see you then. Thanks for hanging out with us right here on Brand Therapy. We'll see you next time.
Lauren:
See you next time.
