107. How do you give a good presentation?
Do you get jitters before speaking at meetings or giving presentations? 😰 Fear not, dear listener, because Phil and Lauren are here to support! In this 1:1 episode, our hosts have a frank discussion about the opportunities that come from speaking with confidence. You'll learn about their fears (twist: Phil hasn't always been comfortable with the spotlight), their thoughts on a great presentation, and advice for commanding the room. If you're hoping to make an impact in your next presentation, this is a must-listen!
Episode transcription
Hey listeners. Before we dive right into this episode, I wanted to share our latest free download LinkedIn tips for beginners worksheet. If LinkedIn is a priority platform for you, you'll love this handy one page PDF, which walks you through five critical steps to make the most of your presence on LinkedIn. Things like defining your goal and purpose, choosing strong photos, adding keywords to your headline, your about section, your featured section, and telling stories and your experience and so much more. I can't believe I did it. But I did it. I condensed all of these actionable takeaways into a single page, which is yours to download totally free. To grab this worksheet, visit philp.al/linkedin/tips. That's philp.al/linkedin/tips. Now onto the show.
Phil
Hello, hello, hello, and welcome to Brand Therapy. I'm Phil.
Lauren
And I'm Lauren.
Phil
And this is the podcast that we worked very hard to make that will help you position, build and promote your brand. We're happy you’re here today, it's just the two of us and we're talking about something that we have not talked about in 100 episodes, but it's something that plays a big role. I should say personally, for me, it's part of what I do around here presenting on stage now, the new norm presenting virtually, trainings, webinars, you know, back when we could be around people, it would be also in person. But also I would say Lauren Moore, you're not exempt from this either. Presentation skills when we're presenting a brand, when we're doing a brand audit, when we're meeting a client for the first time. So that's what we're talking about today. And I'm quite excited. It's one of my favorite topics.
Lauren
I know it's one of your favorite topics. And I would argue that if you are a strong presenter that almost matters more than anything else in business.
Phil
It almost matters more than what you're presenting is how you present it and how the person on the other end feels in that moment. I want to bring to attention, one thing that you said a few weeks ago, you said you think that the podcast has helped you become more of a confident communicator. I think this came up on our episode with Fernando Delgado a few weeks ago when we were talking about audio and podcasting and sound. But I think about that, again, it's poignant, because practice makes perfect. And even something that you're not comfortable with to start, the more you do it, the better you get, the more confident you become. And I would say do not say that the podcast having done this over and over again every week, it makes you a more confident communicator, and it makes you better.
Lauren
Yes, 100%. Agree. I would say that in terms of presenting, I've always been, I've been comfortable presenting if I have a script to follow. So for something like when I was working in corporations, and I'd be asked to present, you know, a PowerPoint to a team or whatever, I was totally fine doing that, because I knew exactly what I was going to be covering. I had thought through everything I had pre-thought all the jokes or whatever, that's totally fine. But something like client calls or presenting a brand identity or even podcasting where there are variables that are far out of my control, it's really, really daunting for me, really scary. Maybe this is like a sign of my introversion. But as soon as there's anything that could be thrown in a curveball, that's when I start to panic, presentation wise. But podcasting is wonderful because it's an audio form, where instead of focusing on what I'm looking like, while speaking, I can actually listen to myself. And with all the fancy editing that Igor does, I could hear how I have the potential to sound like a rock star if I get rid of certain verbal tics. So anyway, rant over love podcasting. Highly recommended as a first step for anyone who's uncomfortable with presenting.
Phil
So what does it take to have a great presentation? Let's talk about that. Because it is something regardless of what your job is, you are in a position where you're communicating with your client with your colleagues. And in a few weeks, we have a guest, we've recorded this so I know what we talk about. But we have a guest called Charlotte Raybourn project on our website, an awesome one to check out. Charlotte, we talk with her. It's a little preview of what's to come. But we talk about with her how it's so much harder on zoom these days, right? Like you'd think, oh, it's easy, because everyone can join from all over the world and we sit in front of our computer and summon a fly to a stage but now, it's actually harder to keep people's attention. So how do you give a good presentation is the question now with the additional pressures of doing it virtually.
Lauren
Mm hmm. And what's another preview for our dear listeners is that actually next week, we have a great, great episode with our dear friend Ashley Rowe, who is going to be going through her tips as a news anchor on how to become good on camera. So hopefully I think 2021 is going to be kicking off with presentations and delivery in mind. So anyway, back to the focus of what we're covering today. I was thinking of this adage that one of my bosses years ago had mentioned to me when I was asked to put on a really big presentation for a company of like hundreds of people, and he said that his trick for putting together a good presentation was to make the structure of the presentation, so it was like, here's what I'm going to talk about. Here's what I'm talking about. Here's what I talked about.
Phil
Oh, I've never heard that approach before. Yeah, elaborate?
Lauren
Well, I think it's just great to first sort of set the stage and kind of almost assert dominance in a way on your presentation be like, these are all the things you're going to learn today. And I know Phil, you do this naturally, but I'm not sure if you're aware of the David bills formula that, that he told me. That at first, you want to assert control and say, this is what I'm covering today and then that way, there's no risk of deviation, right? So buckle up, you're in for the ride, and I'm in the driver's seat. Then you go through what you're actually talking about. And then I guess, to reiterate the value of your presentation. At the end, you always want to cover what you went over. So you're leaving people with a little kind of snapshot of all the things that you went over and reiterating the value of your presentation.
Phil
Humans love repetition, they respond positively to it. And I think that this is actually a really good idea. It's almost like the future, normally, we would say past, present future, but actually smart David goes, ooh, future, present, past. Here's what I'm talking about. Here's me talking about it. Here's what I just talked about. You're right, I think I do do that. I'll do a lot. There's a lot of like public speaking or presentation experts. When I first started this, I worked with TV hosts. So while I was teaching branding, and teaching social media, I was also in that world, and hosts have to brush up on very similar presentation skills. And to grab someone's attention on a platform like YouTube is the perfect example, you're supposed to do that kind of future approach. Here's what I'm going to talk about, an advanced tips for those of you creating content on video platforms like YouTube, I actually say the title in the first sentence. So if the title of the video is, let's say the video is how to grow on Instagram stories. I'm not going to say in this video, I'm going to give you some ideas on how you might be able to grow on Instagram. No, I say this, how to grow on Instagram stories. That's what I'm discussing today. Because now you know, pick up the keywords. That's a little side tip for YouTube. But it's still in the same vein as the future, here's what I'm about to do. Before I do it. It just helps organize, thought before delivering it.
I think we talked about like, it almost being more important how you present than what you say, if the audience detects that you're nervous, or that you're disorganized, and you ramble because you're nervous, then that makes me nervous, or it makes me uncomfortable as an audience member. And that's never positive. It's not to say that you still can't be nervous, because presenting is scary. But there's a huge difference. Here's the positive there's a huge difference, when you're presenting on something that you know, that you're confident in, versus presenting, for example, a script that someone has handed you like an actor and you have to say a word for word. I happen to think that's the scariest. Luckily most of us are not in that position.
Lauren
Yeah, so I think it would be good for our listeners to hear a little backstory on you with presenting. So it's very clear like you are the influential face of the business, you have no problem, at least to the sort of average person. That seems like you really like the stage and you really like presenting but I know this wasn't always the case. So could you fill us in, uh, you know where we're fit.
Phil
I'll fill you in. Here's where it's because this is a funny story that I don't think I've shared but Lauren knows it and loves it. Contrary to popular belief, or what most of you think, I have not loved public speaking my entire life. I happen to love it now very much so much that we've made it a part of our business and it becomes a way that a lot of people discover us virtually or in person.
But I used to be terrified of public speaking, absolutely terrified of public speaking. Around like the puberty ages around grade five, six, I can recall that transition from, you know, when you're really young, and you do show and tell, and there's just no fear at all you get in front of an audience, you're like, here's this random weird thing that I've been, you know, carrying around. no judgment, no fear, like you just do it.
Lauren
Yeah, no confidence, no sense of consequence or right social, social, like hang ups.
Phil
Yes. And then you cross that bridge into scary adolescence, and all of a sudden you care. And you're aware, and you're nervous, because you have acne, and you have all these other societal growth pressures. And I can recall, in grade five, when I crossed that bridge, we had to give a speech every year. And this was like one of those things that no one looked forward to particularly at that age, you could pick any topic. I don't know why I picked the topic of whales.
Lauren
I thought you could literally pick any topic in the world, I think.
Phil
So I don't remember the details. But I remember vividly using the internet for one of the first times and researching on yahoo.com to get my sources to do a speech on whales. Specifically, I don't know why I chose this one. Nar is it nor wall or narwhal. They're the whales that have like the spike on the front. I think they're kind of asked, that's probably why I chose the topic. The short story is I went up in front of people and dropped my cue cards before I started speech. picked them up, they were out of order. And I had to just cover and figure out what to do. Then, to make matters worse, you become aware of how nervous you are in front of the audience, and the more you think about how visibly nervous you are, the more that visible nervousness becomes apparent, which then in turn becomes this dangerous spiral. And that was my first experience of that. I was like my hands are shaking, oh god, my hands are sweaty, Oh, God, more and more. And it just I think I ended up giving a speech, it was fine. But it was such a jarring moment in my life that I still remember the vivid details, even though it was a very very, very long time ago. Now, the positive side of this is that I remember how good I felt after giving this speech and it being over and it feeling like I had just finished a race car race, you know. And so that, for me, is kind of what I focused on was like, not so much the act of giving a speech, which was terrifying, but how good I felt after the fact. And that kind of became that adrenaline rush that I got addicted to, as I grew up, went through high school, enjoyed it, the outcome I should say enjoyed the last part, like enjoyed the ending of it so much.
And then when I became in the position where I could actually get paid to talk about things that I wanted to talk about, that changed the game for me. So there's a big difference between having to give a speech, I think the scariest thing is when someone hands you a script and says deliver this word for word. And I want to say that a lot of us do this to ourselves.
So major tip, if you leave with one tip from this episode, do not give yourself a script. Do not feel pressure to read something word for word. If it's something you've created, I intentionally leave out a lot of words on my slides and just mostly use visuals for reference when I'm in the position of presenting that part, because there's no script. Why would you put so much additional pressure on yourself to say something Exactly. When there's no need for that pressure? It's unnecessary. So that's one little tip that I slid in there. But that was how it started for me public speaking then and now.
Lauren
Yeah, it's so interesting. What might also shock you is that for some reason after graduating from high school, is when I went through my uncomfortable public speaking phase. But at high school, literally from ninth grade through senior year, I spoke on the morning announcements every single day. I don't know if you knew this fun fact about me. I gave speeches at literally every school assembly. I was everywhere and felt zero shame. But then after I think once you graduate and start realizing that oh people are now paying me for whatever I'm about to say it adds that additional pressure. So I love that you decide the terms on what you're going to speak by choosing those bullet points that you're going to be covering.
Phil
Yes, and I think to be focused on the right things, you need to focus on what really matters. And I think part of the responsibility of a speaker is not so much to share as much information as possible, but it's to design the experience for which someone will hopefully retain information that you share. So it's not to be the smartest person in the room. It's to really kind of share something and be intentional with, they're going to remember this, in my opinion. How can you share something that's going to stick with them? How can I share this boring piece of information, but make it interesting? So if it's a boring piece of information, then don't just keep giving us more and more information, pause and go, you know what, rather than just telling people they need good presentation skills, let's tell a funny story about Phil, when he's pretty blue bass and dropping cue cards on the floor. Yeah, right. So that was an example of a mechanism that you use to keep people engaged. And that's the responsibility of a speaker. It's not to be the smartest person in the room.
Lauren
Yeah, so do you recommend including a story and every presentation? Yeah, more than one. Normally, when I'm thinking when I'm drafting a presentation, which, by the way, I don't spend a lot of time doing, I'll take an existing deck that I have. So it took a lot of time to create the first one, mostly to animate it and look pretty, but I don't put too much energy into it, because I like to give myself the freedom of telling stories in that moment that feel right for that audience. I would say I have a skill to even virtually identify the audience, look everyone in the eye and, and know what's gonna be right, in terms of having them respond to me. But I would say, content, story, content, story, or you could say point. I craft every talk to have three main points. There are variations of this, but I operate in threes. I like the system that you introduce from David future, present, past, work in threes, beginning, middle, and it always works well. It's organized, we respond well to content framed in that way as humans. So to take that a step further. Idea number one, story number one, idea number two, story number two, and that it's going to allow people to associate the story that's memorable and personal and humanizing with the important information or content that you want them to learn or take away. So I do that one, too, almost like one, a, two, a, three a and then A's are your stories that compliment that point?
Lauren
So for some other presentation skills, I'm just going to prompt you because I know your presentation style. And I want the listeners to learn. So do you accept questions throughout your presentation?
Phil
No.
Lauren
And explain why.
Phil
I do not accept questions throughout my presentation. And this isn't an ego thing. This isn't like, you know, when someone goes up to a celebrity and asks for an autograph, and they say no, which I can understand why they would say no, but this is not the same as that. This is because I know myself. And if I get derailed, then it's going to make for a lesser experience for everyone in the audience. And I have a very short attention span and while I'm eager to help every single person in that moment of wondering something I know, I can get derailed so quickly. So here's what I do is I say that from the beginning. Listen, you're gonna have questions, I bet throughout this presentation. But do me a favor, help me help you and create a good experience. Because if you ask me a question at the moment, I'm going to forget what I'm talking about. And it's downhill from there. You know? So I always say I'll take questions at the end. So jot your question down, send me a tweet, or send me a DM on Instagram. This is about social media. Why not? Right, like a little call to action there. But I don't take questions because I find it too distracting.
Lauren
I also think it's a power thing to like in terms of a power dynamic. Because as soon as you start opening up questions in the middle of your presentation, then the audience is deciding what you're talking about, not you, which I don't like personally.
Phil
Completely. You can't do it. You can't do it. Do not do it. Save questions until the end, and people will respect you. It's like training a dog. If you let the dog walk all over you. It's not going to respect the boundaries. Audience dog. These are the rules that I play by and I'm in charge.
Lauren
Great. Two more questions. The first one is related to exercises. So I know a lot of speakers will be like look at the person to the right, and like blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. What are your thoughts on that?
Phil
Well, I don't like lame exercises. So I've done it. I've done interactive things before, but nothing that's cheese ball. Exercises are fine because it gets people moving and interacting, however, they always take longer than you think they're going to. So use exercises and interactions that disrupt the presentation sparingly, because and you also have to think about nature like we talk all the time about being clear on your goal. We can't brand someone unless you're crystal clear on your goal. When you're giving a presentation, thinking about the goal. Is part of the goal to get them interacting and playing with the material or the curriculum that you're teaching. In that case, you probably want something interactive, like an exercise. However, if you're limited on time, and the onus is on you to share a certain amount of information, I wouldn't go that route because it takes up a huge, huge, huge amount of time.
Lauren
Great. And then my final question for you is related to delivery. You speak with a lot of flair, I guess, lots of intimations, lots of jokes, you have a rhythm that you follow. Do you have any advice for people on that?
Phil
Yes, I would say just stay true to yourself in your personality, a big part of is confidence. So I talk to you and the audience via my microphone differently than I talk to someone one on one, and I am at peace with hearing the sound of my nazaly, but since I was a teenager, it was far more easy, I'm at peace with how I sounded, listening back to myself in a recording or in a video. Because it's different. It's a bit of an act. It's not an act, because I don't want to say that it's fake, it's still me, but there's a presentation Phil. And then there's a conversation one to one, sleepy failure in real life, you know. And so I think distinguishing between those helps me in a lot of ways, because I know it's the professional me and the personal me. I think if someone doesn't like the sound of their voice, or they're not confident, then start to differentiate how you present using your personality, finding your rhythm, which you only do really through practice, but I think it helps to distinguish. And also not to take things personally, you know, that's like, people say mean things about me all the time on not all the time, but sometimes on the internet on YouTube comments, sometimes. And I don't really get upset about it, because that's like, teacher Phil or educator Phil or presenter Phil. And that's just me and some people are gonna like it. Some people are not. I think it's confidence. I think it's practice. And I think it's, um, that differentiation between you as a person and you as a presenter, as a professional, whatever you describe it as, and being able to constantly think how can I make that experience better, you need to look at it objectively, you need to listen back to what you create, and actively think, how can I make that better? How can I make that better? I think that's had a huge influence on my pacing, the way that I share my ideas, concisely, hopefully in a way that people understand the varying speeds and all of that it's because I've done it a million times, and I'm constantly trying to get better.
Lauren
Great. So to sum it up, disassociate your performative self, from your personal self.
Phil
Oh my god, you say that so much better than I say it in 800 sentences and you sum it up in one, I guess that's part of your job, isn't it? Continue?
Lauren
Yeah. And because I've become a kick ass presenter. I know how to say something in a single sentence, which is, I guess the final actually, sorry, just a backup. I don't actually think I'm a kick ass presenter. But there's also one final thought I'd like to leave with our listeners for something that really, really affected me in a positive way. Something you taught me, one thought per sentence.
Phil
This comes up again, actually, it's a perfect segue. Yeah, as we read this and think about next week, this comes up in our conversation with Ashley row when we get a guest back in this little virtual room. Yes, if you listen back to everything that we've ever created, because you've also I think you communicate now with this rule in mind. I know the most important thing I learned in broadcast journalism schools is to keep it to one idea, per sentence. Don't be afraid to put a period. You know, it's funny because I was thinking about this yesterday when I was recording YouTube videos. And there were a few parts. I was mad at myself and I was reading off the prompter because I put two ideas in one sentence, and you can hear in my voice that I'm not genuinely behind what I'm saying. It's a subtle little thing and I still kept recording, but like one idea per sentence, period. next sentence. Hugely important. If you're not confident it will make you seem more confident and people will pick up more of what you're communicating to them.
Lauren
Fantastic.
Phil
I can't believe half an hour has passed already or close to. We hope that you picked up something useful from this. By the way a few reviews have come in on Apple from a few of you in a few different countries. Thank you for leaving a review. If you enjoyed this episode. Let's continue the conversation. I'm @philpallen.
Lauren
I'm @thelaurenmoore.
Phil
#brandtherapy we'll continue the conversation and as I mentioned. If you liked this episode or another episode, it means the world to us if you leave a review five star, five star and help other people discover this podcast that we work so hard to create. Well, you know what's coming next week we already talked about it to make sure you're back for this one. You will love the next episode of Brand Therapy. Thank you so much for hanging out with us. Until then.
Lauren
See you next time.
