147. When can you go off-brand?
Do brand strategists ever recommend going off-brand? 😱 These two Brand Therapy hosts sure do—for special cases! In this snappy episode, hosts Phil and Lauren have a frank discussion about when it's advisable to steer away from your brand rules. The two chat about branding milestones to hit before departing from the brand board, instances where going off-brand is acceptable, and—most importantly—tips for aligning your off-brand moment with your current brand's legacy. For anyone who's sick of their brand colors or aesthetic, you'll love this refreshing episode!
Episode transcription
Phil
Well, hello there. Welcome to Brand Therapy. I'm Phil.
Lauren
And I'm Lauren.
Phil
And this is the podcast where we help you position, build and promote your brand. We're so happy you're here. Welcome, welcome, welcome. Really interesting topic that we have on our little agenda today, isn't it Lauren Moore? This is something we certainly have never addressed.
Lauren
Yeah. When can you or should you go off brand? We're all about branding here.
Phil
We are about branding. I don't know why I had never thought about talking about this. It wasn't until I was glancing at my YouTube channel, the overview, I went to like Phil Pallen, or whatever it is. youtube.com/philpallen and I saw all my colorful off brand thumbnails which maybe aren't beautiful in the context of my brand, everything looks and feels totally, quote on brand. And I get compliments on that often. But YouTube is not on brand. And we do that on purpose. And I thought we could actually talk about that as well as other instances of our brand and clients where you've kind of gone off script, or broken the rules.
Lauren
Yep. Okay, so I have a very strong opinion about this. First of all, I don't think that you can go off brand on anything until your brand is crystal clear and completely recognizable. Because otherwise it seems like a mess or an experiment or a mistake. So as an example, our client Juli of PaleoMG who we talk about every single episode, because we're obsessed with her. Julie has set brand colors that she uses religiously. Her entire social media presence feels on brand, or website feels on brand, her first few programs seem on brand. Everything has been completely consistent. And so when we released her align program, earlier this year, we made a decision to actually go a little off brand so it felt really special. But I don't think that it would have worked if we didn't have that original brand as a foundation to make it feel special instead of a mistake.
Phil
That's completely true. That's completely true. So you have to earn the ability to go off brand, and you have to live and spend time in it for maybe a few months or a few years before you start to break these rules.
Lauren
Mm hmm. So fPhil, when do you think it makes sense for someone to go off brand?
Phil
Let me give you an example. I already mentioned YouTube is probably my best example of this. When I launched my channel, what would it be not quite two years yet, two years ago, I had all my thumbnails, my beige, background color, beige, green, really kind of like muted tones that we use. And as soon as I switch them to brighter colors, more eye grabbing, attention grabbing colors that are totally not on my brand board or remotely close, the views performed better. The YouTube thumbnails helped grab attention for people browsing a very visually busy space, YouTube. And even though it's not on brand, we use bright colors in our thumbnails. And it helps the performance of the videos. That, in my opinion, make sense, shows awareness of that specific environment. There are other examples of this, but that's one that I think is closest on why it makes sense. It makes sense when you can make or you can change your what you think you're supposed to be doing as it looks right. But if you can make changes that are going to lead to higher conversion, then it makes sense.
Lauren
Totally. So functionally, if you have to go off brand to drive some sort of conversion or view or whatever, all for it. I also think that it's important to be very intentional when you go off brand. I think it's totally fine to go off brand if you're selling a very specific product or service and you want to really stand out. I brought up the Align program with Juli a few minutes ago. Another example is our client, Susan Salgado. Susan is a public speaker, and she has a very, very distinct brand on her website, but she wanted to bring a little extra something to her individual talks that she sells through speaking bureaus and sells directly to clients. So we ended up going off brand with each talk and give each talk a designated brand color so that they really saying and the colors for these talks are much brighter and much more vibrant than her normal brand. And so I would argue that those are off brand, but for a reason, so that they grab, and so that they sell.
Phil
They also there's an important point here to be mentioned, that wasn't just those weren't colors, or were arbitrarily chosen, it would stem from a conversation. So this client came back to us and said, hey, here's the situation I'm in, can we add some more colors for this? That began a conversation, we talked about it, we looped in our designer who conceptualized the brand, and we all weighed in on it and had a conversation that made sense, moving forward.
So I think a lot of this is also about communication, you shouldn't be solely deciding when it's fine to go off brand. In my opinion, it's not something I would ever do on my own without talking to you about it, or looping in Costya, our designer. The end result is going to be better if you talk about it and have a conversation about that plan, and bring in those talented people you have around you to figure out what exactly that looks like.
Lauren
Yeah. Can you think of any other cool examples of people going off brand?
Phil
Yes. So recently, we had a client that we had branded several years ago come back, because very exciting. They had a new brick and mortar space. Up to that point, it had been a virtual business. But Mojo Home Interiors had a designated home. And they were working within very specific constraints on how the sign had to be sized. And there wasn't an existing mock up, or I should say, lock up of the logo or layout of the logo that would fit that space. So again, conversation prompted client didn't go rogue and just jam something in the space that we had given to them. Went back to Costya, we talked a little bit about it, and we were happy to help them. I was also happy that they came back to us. I always appreciate that. Your designer appreciates it when you don't just go rogue, but when you actually have a dialogue. So we were able to take a lock up, make some changes, change some words, some spacing, etc. And still it is not on brand. What we created is not on brand defined by the brand board or the brand guidelines that we created initially. But it's another instance of where certain circumstances or parameters that you're working within might mean you have to break some rules. So break them, but make sure you're informed or at least have a conversation about it.
Lauren
When is it not okay to go off brands?
Phil
Well, you've already said when it's too soon, if your brand is brand new, that it's too soon, if it's not already established, I'd say at least six months, at least a year, if I had to put a timeline on it.
Lauren
Mm hmm. I would also say, if you haven't used all of the elements that your designer has created for you yet, then it's not time to go off brand. Listeners, we create really detailed brand boards with all these different examples of typesetting and colors and other types of lockups. And I feel like if you haven't really squeezed every part of your brand board dry, then maybe it's not time to go off brand. Instead, it's a time to utilize something you haven't used before on your brand board.
Phil
I love that. That's so true.
Lauren
Okay, so tools for going off brand. Generally with going off brand, I would say that you want to keep some element consistent with the original brands, so people know that they're in the right place, and they're not having like whiplash wondering who this is and what they're presented. So with the example of Juli, we keep the logo the same, we keep the typography the same, and we only really change colors and or pattern like elements like little visual details that look kind of like confetti. So I would say, first of all, your brand board is your greatest tool, because ideally, if you're going off brand, you're changing no more than one thing like the color scheme, for example. The next tool is your designer. So I would not recommend choosing your own colors to go off brand you want whatever colors you're choosing to still work within the ecosystem of your brand and still be complimentary. So I think your designers probably really the number one tool in that case.
Phil
Yeah, I would say your designer and then guidelines we create a brand board or a PDF that outlines exactly how the brand should live. You have to be familiar, intimately familiar with those rules to be able to go off Brand properly, right? Because even if you're off brand, let's say with a color, it shouldn't clash with what you already have. It should not clash, it should still coexist really well, there are certain things you should not change. For example, we're going to get really nerdy here, but the kerning of your logo, the spacing of the letters, in your tagline, or in your headline, or in your name, that should not change, when that's established upfront with your brand. That should not change. Typography can change, but there should be a reason for it. And a good example of that would be when someone launches a book. When someone writes a book, it's not expected that your book be totally on brand, you might choose a different color that coexists with your brand. You might choose different typography for that specific project. Notice it's a project that stems from your brand. But again, don't go rogue and make all these decisions yourself. If you didn't choose the colors or create the brand initially, hopefully you didn't if that's not what you do, have this conversation with trusted professionals, because it's not easy.
Lauren
Yeah, for sure. Okay, so kind of cap off our conversation of this quick episode. What are next steps? Like when do you think someone should be? Or what decisions should someone be making when deciding to go off brand? Should be what am I launching, is it special, does it clash with what I have? Have I utilized every part of my existing brand already and need to try something new? Is this going to be a limited edition? Am I ever going to replicate or create saw something similar? Because if you are, I think you shouldn't go off brand.
Phil
What system can I create to make updating this easy in the future in case I change my mind is maybe a more advanced question that I would ask. And I'll give an example. When I change the background, colors of my YouTube thumbnails to something brighter, I duplicated the project in my graphic design software. And that way, if I decided to go back, I wasn't gonna be off brand, I went back to the old colors, it was super easy. It was already saved. So that's like more advanced, but you want to kind of think, okay, if you're gonna go off brand, but you end up changing your mind, make it easy for yourself.
Lauren
Yeah. And I think more than anything, the big question is, what am I hoping to communicate by going off brand, bringing up the Align program again, we wanted people to feel good about working out three times a week, instead of working out five times a week, like every other fitness program out there, celebrates, and or advocates. And so we wanted this brand to feel like a celebration. And we couldn't with the existing brand that Juli had, we didn't have anything that really, you know, took that celebration to the next level. And we felt like neon was really what was required to go with the entire aesthetic. So I think asking yourself, what are you hoping to communicate? And making sure that you can't communicate that with your existing brand tools is probably the most important question you need to ask yourself.
Phil
I agree. I mean, it's a short episode, but I feel like it can be short, because who wants to talk about this topic for longer? It's an important topic, but it's like not the most riveting thing in the universe.
Lauren
Yeah, I don't really have anything more to say, on this topic. I'm out.
Phil
Happy we had the conversation. Don't need to have it again, and certainly no need to keep having it. What did you think? Are you clearer now on when you can go off brand, Instagram as an example of this Instagram, your Instagram feed. I just minutes before this asked you for approval on an on a post that has a font that is from Adobe and not for my own brand. That's an example today. It's like, look, Lauren, you go right away, branding police, you were like, that's not your brand, or that's not your font.
Lauren
I said it a little nicer. I said, Is there a reason why, and there was a reason was a reason. There was a reason.
Phil
So it's going to happen, you're going to encounter these instances. And we thought, well, let's give you a few examples so that we're kind of giving you permission with an asterix on how to handle it. We'd love to hear from you #brandtherapy. What are your thoughts on this? Let's continue the conversation on social media. I'm @philpallen.
Lauren
I'm @thelaurenmoore
Phil
And that's #brandtherapy. And by the way, we would totally appreciate if you took two seconds and went to leave us a review in the iTunes Store five star five star that helps other people discover this podcast that we work very hard to create for you until next week. Until next week, thanks for hanging out with us on Brand Therapy. See you then.
Lauren
Bye bye.
