148. How do you build an audience on LinkedIn? (f.Petra Zink)
Wish you could go viral on LinkedIn? 📢 After this enlightening Brand Therapy episode, you just might! Hosts Phil and Lauren meet with keynote speaker, coach, and bonafide LinkedIn expert Petra Zink to discuss the limitless potential of the platform. From lead generation to community building, Petra dishes on her tried-and-true methods for making the most of this often underrated platform. Don't miss out!
Episode transcription
Phil
Hey listener before we dive right into this episode, we have a freebie from our guest today, you're going to love. Petr is talking all about LinkedIn, and you need this freebie to level up on this platform. It's a LinkedIn profile optimization checklist. And it's so good philp.al/petra to get this goodness, I know you're gonna love it. And you're gonna love this episode. Let's get right to it.
Phil
Well, hello there. Welcome to Brand Therapy. I'm Phil.
Lauren
And I'm Lauren.
Phil
And this is the podcast where we help you position and we help you build, and we help you promote your brand. Oh boy, are you in the right place. You know what? You know what we're gonna do? We're gonna have some fun today. We have fun every day, but we've called one of my friends. She's here, she’s ready to jump into this conversation. She's a personal branding expert. In fact, she's a lot of things. I'm going to also say she's a LinkedIn expert, because I just had a peek at the 17,000 plus followers that she has on LinkedIn. Okay. When Petra landed in my inbox and said, Phil, we need to do a podcast together, she was excited about LinkedIn more excited about LinkedIn than I normally am. And Petra Zink, that is why you're here today on Brand Therapy. We welcome you. Welcome. Welcome. Welcome.
Petra
Thank you so much. I'm honestly so excited. And even though we've connected via Instagram, LinkedIn is definitely the platform where I spend most of my time and we're going to discuss why.
Lauren
Totally.
Phil
This is going to be good. But even before that, can we also give you a shout out and a credit and praise for the fact that you in Australia right now you're originally from Austria, but you live in Australia, it is 3am for you at the time of recording this. You look so cutie patootie you're up in the middle of the night just to have this conversation with us. So thank you for that.
Petra
I wouldn't change it in the world. Thank you so much for having me.
Phil
I do not look like this at 3am. I would like everyone to know, okay, you don't want to see me at 3am.
Petra
It's also new for me to have makeup and hair done.
Lauren
So Petra, in the intro that Phil just gave, he was referred to you as an expert and many things, but I know that you have an opinion on the difference between being an expert and being an authority in something. So let's maybe start there. What is the difference?
Petra
Absolutely. Well, an expert is somebody who knows a lot of things. They're known for being really good at what they're doing. However, an authority is somebody who's able to translate what they know, in a language that makes sense to their audience. So a lot of authorities in their field, they actually haven't done the primary research for it. They haven't done the groundwork, but they are able to translate concepts into easier to understand methods and frameworks and words that everyone can understand.
And this is also a reason why so many professionals are actually getting stuck. And they can't progress in their career, because they're extremely good at what they're doing and they're doing the doing, but they're not able to get people on the same page. And with that they can't influence and that means that they often get stuck in this expert level. But they are not getting any further. They're not getting invited to speaking opportunities, or to contribute their expertise, because nobody understands what they're saying.
Lauren
Fascinating.
Phil
That is totally valid. And you want to know it's funny, as I say the word expert without even thinking twice, but now that you've put it in that context, that makes perfect sense, the difference between expert and authority. I love that.
Lauren
I love how I basically start off the episode being like Phil did this wonderful intro, but you said was wrong!
Phil
Yes, I was wrong. But I mean, admit it was the perfect setup. So you're welcome.
Lauren
Yeah, I'm sure it was on purpose. Okay. Obviously, you have a huge following on LinkedIn. And you've got a really great established presence. I want to know, when did you realize the power of LinkedIn? When did that light bulb go off and you found yourself interested in the platform?
Petra
When I had to.
Lauren
Really?
Petra
Yes, it wasn't by choice to start with. So I started my career in brand product marketing in a fast moving consumer goods industry. I was always the face behind the big brands. So I wasn't on LinkedIn at all. But everything changed when I changed my career. And I got into recruitment. And everyone said, you need to be on LinkedIn. I was like LinkedIn, I've got my origin uploaded, I've got a few things on there, what I did for my jobs, but that's about it. So now you need to be on LinkedIn, because this is how we find tenants. I was like, oh, okay, so what I did, and because I was always the face behind big brands, I didn't have a network in Australia and recruitment is all about who you know, and more importantly, who knows of you. And because I had to set up a new desk, and it was digital and technology and we didn't have a candidate or a client, I quickly had to get myself out there and build a network. And this is how I got on to LinkedIn.
So I started connecting with candidates, I started connecting with clients and started publishing some content. And that was about six years ago. And all of a sudden, you know, within three, four months already, I got approached by candidates and clients, and people reached out to me rather than me having to chase them. And this is where I thought, you know what, there is something to it. Let's be more serious about it because at the beginning, I was just playing around and testing things. I didn't know how to do stuff. But I'm more intentional now. So I'm happy to share what works and what doesn't, because clearly, the platform is changing a lot.
Lauren
Right? Well, let's dive in. Tell us what works and what doesn't.
Petra
Well, first and foremost, LinkedIn is a search engine. And this is what so many people don't realize. When you google your name, you will see that your results will be the first three outcomes will be actually your LinkedIn profile. Because Google sees LinkedIn as a trusted source of information. And it's full of keywords. So when we set up our profile, even just having a fully optimized profile already impacts how far we come up in Google searches. And this is usually the first point of contact. When we see people, when we get a name, when we have a first date, we are stalking them in a professional way. So we want to be known for the right things, and we want to come up for the right results. So this is already a big differentiation.
So it impacts Google results, but at the same time, also within LinkedIn, it is a search engine. And this is how I also recruited over 300 candidates into roles. In my five years that I was in recruitment, I put up one job ad and I placed over 300 that was filled just through networking and referrals through LinkedIn. And this is the power of it.
Lauren
Wow. Okay, so I want to get into optimizing your profile for keywords. But to start, I'm curious to know if you have a formula or just things that you like about an effective title on LinkedIn, because I know there are a lot of different opinions on whether your title should just be your actual job title, or if it should have a mission statement or anything like that. So what are your thoughts?
Petra
So in order to optimize your profile, you want to achieve what's called the all star status. And that means your profile is optimized for search results. So people who are typing in certain keywords, your problem you will actually show can be shown to those people. And how we do it is we tick a few boxes. So there are actually 10 criteria to get to this all star status. But the most important ones are the first part in your header. And that includes your title, your image, and of course, your background. And so many keep the backgrounds this backdrop, plain, this is this gray, weird, plain nothing, everybody's private marketing, real estate, then you can leverage because we know that images are 60,000 times faster process then text alone. So we can already show what we're doing rather than say what we're doing.
So because I want to be seen as a speaker, for example, and I'm running a lot of workshops and training, everything on my background is me in speaking mode. Either, you know, virtually, or in person or via podcast. So this is already what people remember about you. And then obviously, you want to have a proper profile photo, not a cut out image that you took from a wedding.
And the last part is the headline. This is again, a missed opportunity, because many people keep it as the default setting. And that is your job title and company. But these are, again, it is a perfect opportunity to put in the keywords that you want to be found for. So rather than saying marketing manager at company XYZ said, you want to say marketing management, strategic marketing, marketing for small businesses, so you want to put in all those keywords already, that you rank higher, when people who are looking for what you've got to offer will find you and your profile only.
Lauren
Amazing. Now with content, when I go into my LinkedIn home feed, I will see I think probably about 60% of what I'm seeing is by people I've never met, people I'm not connected to and people that I probably will never meet. Let's be honest. What do you think gets people seen in other people other users feeds? What is that secret sauce behind going LinkedIn viral, for example?
Petra
It's easier than you think, because what you're just describing is that you haven't trained your algorithm properly, which means you haven't engaged properly. You haven't hidden some content that you don't want to see. You haven't liked content that you want to see more of. And this is what impacts the results. They're just trying to throw out anything there is to see what works and what doesn't. Because LinkedIn is like every other social media platform, they want you to stay on it for as long as possible, because this is how they make money.
But just as a comparison, we spend about 38 minutes on Instagram every day. And this has probably increased over COVID. We're spending about 18 minutes a month on LinkedIn.
Phil
I try to spend the less. I'm in and out of there. I'm like, let me just accept all the friend requests, 20 friend, or connection requests that came in, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, reply to a few messages. I'm out.
Lauren
It's too ugly for Phil, he doesn't like the way it looks.
Phil
The whole thing is so clunky. But you know what, there's one thing about LinkedIn that I absolutely love. Well there's two things, the first thing is the ability to have recommendations on your profile. I'm very proud of the fact that I have, I think, almost 100 recommendations on LinkedIn. And I have a system for acquiring those right after a speaking engagement is usually what it is I have in my automation. Listen, if you liked my talk, you liked my workshop, it would mean the world to me, if you would leave me a LinkedIn recommendation, click here so we can be connected. And then I'll, you know, reply to this email. Yes. And I'll request it. And just that little automation really helps, because Petra, I don't know how you feel about this, but when I see a testimonial, 2021 and beyond, when I see a testimonial on a website, I'm like, did you write that yourself? Did they really say that? Did they send you one and then you made it better? Like I don't believe it. But the thing with LinkedIn, a recommendation is, it really is what they typed from them. And I love the authenticity or the validity of that.
Petra
Absolutely. It's what's called social proof. And even when I recruited especially more senior roles, I always went straight to recommendation and saw what people talked about them. Because yes, you can say I'm the best at whatever you're doing, but is it validated by others? And this is also part of building your authority, your area of expertise, plus social proof, plus your network equals your status. So this is a massive part of your forum.
Phil
The second thing I love is that I booked a speaking engagement because of LinkedIn two weeks ago, all after optimizing my profile, which I had done a few months prior to that, but these things really work. The keywords really work. She messaged me, there was enough proof on my profile for her to message me and say, listen, this is what we want to book you for, give us the details. It wasn't like we're thinking about maybe hiring you, it's like sending us the details we want to have you, which means sure she might have gone on my website, or may have looked me up on other platforms, but she messaged me on LinkedIn, which means she went to my profile and there was enough there that she believed I was good enough to pay me money to render a service without ever having a conversation with me. And that's really cool.
Petra
It so powerful, because it is proof that you are a legit person. So even when in recruitment, I got resumes, the first thing that I did, I went onto LinkedIn. When this person didn't have a profile to start with, no go, especially in technology, and that was six years ago. Today, it's not just the absence of the bad that is concerning in terms of social media content, but it's also the absence of the good when we think they're not having any profiles, they don't have any presence. What's wrong with these people they have to hide in this is the first thing that we are thinking. And also the halo effect as much as it works in a good way that we are associated with something good in the way I'm doing it necessarily. It's also associated with the bad, where you say you're not on LinkedIn. So you don't know how digital and social media works. So your skill set is outdated. This is how quickly we make assumptions. And in a more digital connected world of work, we can't leave that to chance.
Phil
I saw a post on Twitter a few days ago, from a creator, I can't remember his name, but I see his tweets all the time. And he had lit up this conversation about social media managers. Does a good social media manager need to have a good social media presence themselves to, you know, get a job? I can't remember how it finished. But so many people were saying no, you know, a social media manager shouldn't have a good or shouldn't need to have a good social media presence themselves. And don't expect that of them because they're so busy working on other people's accounts.
I actually was in the minority and I disagreed. Maybe I don't fully disagree, but I think that someone working in social media is more likely to win an opportunity, get a job with a contract, etc. if they have a good social media presence as well. I think they should.
Lauren
I'm proof of that. Years ago, I got a cross country job that had a $20,000 salary boost from my already pretty good salary. And I got the job because I had more Twitter followers than the multimillion dollar client account that I was going to be managing. Totally agree with you. And again, it's that matter of just like you've been saying Petra of showing from expert to authority. How can you say that you're an expert at managing social media, for example, or an expert at working with people if you don't demonstrate proof of that online and in a public forum?
Petra
Exactly. So, yeah, yes, I agree.
Lauren
Fascinating. Okay. I want to know, as a recruiter, obviously, you must have some natural skills with connecting with people, just conversationally, and in general. I've always wondered how people can actually build meaningful connections that go outside of sending private messages on LinkedIn. For example, for finding clients or for potentially hiring someone for your team? How do you connect with someone without it seeming transactional or opportunistic? And how do you actually build a meaningful relationship with someone using LinkedIn without it being awkward? Is there like a formula you use or something to help me?
Petra
Yes, absolutely. It goes in stages. So rather than just sending a connection question, say, hey, do you want to hire me? It doesn't work. Just, you know, a hint there. Or do you want to work for us, it also doesn't work like that, especially nowadays, where talent is a lot more choice and more options, we need to build a relationship.
And the easiest way to do that is to actually follow hashtags to start with. So you want to be part of the conversation that already happens, you want to see who's talking about that already.
And then the next step would be to comment and engage in their content. So what Phil said before, I've seen Petra, on Instagram, we take up information very subconsciously. And this the same happens on LinkedIn. The more I comment on somebody who actually wants to connect with, the more we are familiar with each other already. And if I would give them obviously positive comments, or a start, or continued conversation, which LinkedIn is all about, they have a positive association with me. So when I then reach out, it's a lot easier to have a proper conversation, then we can even do a follow before we connect. And when we have more interactions, we then can connect. And that could literally be within a week or two weeks, because we've got multiple touch points. So starting with following hashtags for keywords that you are interested in, and also that you want to be known for. This is also how you curate your feed so that you see the right content by the right people. And then starting in conversations.
Lauren
That's fascinating. And it makes so much sense because going straight to someone's DMS kind of feels like proposing on the second date kind of thing. Whereas starting off publicly is such a great tactic.
Petra
It is, and at the same time, they also get notifications when you engage in their content. So in the second they post something, and they get a notification that somebody engaged in the content. Well, what are you doing? You go back to LinkedIn, again. And this is exactly what the platform wants you to do. How can we keep the conversation going? And rather than just saying, hey, great post, thumbs up, you want to say that it's an interesting point? Have you thought about x y z? Or what do you think about blah, blah, blah, so that you can actually have a proper conversation and they can respond to it. When you say great work, hm hmm, thanks, there is no conversation.
Lauren
I love that. I love that. Okay, so on the content front, what can our listeners do to create a post on LinkedIn that gets hundreds of shares and comments. Do they have to tell an emotional personal story with one sentence per line? Do they need to say something controversial? What do you think?
Petra
It's easier to go viral than you think. Because out of those 600, what is it not 750 million, and I constantly have to revise the usage is a number because it goes up literally every day, only about 1% is proactively contributing content weekly. Which means when you show up to three times a week, that's already enough for you to get attraction. And the easiest way to create content is actually to do the engagement. And you don't even have to create your own post. And that already counts as a content contribution because you literally put your opinion towards a topic. So that's one easy way.
And then another easy way, which I absolutely love is creating a poll, because it helps with conversation, and about 57% of content is consumed on your phone. And there are actually two algorithms one is for the desktop and one is for your phone. And given a majority consumes content on the phone, and there is some research that suggests that there will be an increase even further on mobile, you want to create these snackable bite sized content pieces and then a poll is easy to create. It could be that I'm traveling and I'm excited about my speaking engagement. Of course I'm always aisle, what about you aisle or window. So it could be something there is no right or wrong, but people enjoy giving their two cents to topics like that. I wouldn't say hey, are you Biden or Trump? Don't do that. But small talk like that is a great way. I posted a poll saying why do you want to be your personal brand, to become the go to in your field, speaking engagements, board roles, others, and I got hundreds of comments. And what it does is a he posted, take one in terms of content creation, you have it running for a week, for example. Now what you can do now is to repurpose that same content and say the results are in. So many people voted for the x y z, it's not a piece of content.
But now the real power happens, you send the results to everyone who actually voted on your direct messages. So you now have a one on one conversation and content equals conversation starter and a conversation starter equals conversion eventually. Easy done. Within one week you already have, you know, many new connections from that.
Lauren
I love it. I haven't heard or read these tactics anywhere before. I think you have such an original take on LinkedIn.
Petra
Because I'm trial testing a little bit.
Phil
Cool. That curiosity, I think really pays off because you've tried things that haven't worked, but you get really excited about things that have worked. You mentioned polls, what about some other lesser known features of LinkedIn, for example, I've had LinkedIn live for quite a long time, I was so excited when I was part of the beta. And I did it for a few months. But then like everything, all of these platforms that want us to spend time on LinkedIn kind of fell by the wayside for me, when I was focused more on YouTube and other video platforms.
What do you think about LinkedIn live? Or what do you think about maybe there's other features, I don't even know about?
Petra
Well LinkedIn live you need to plan for it. So not everyone can have it to start with. But given we spend so little time on a platform, hardly anyone consumes content live to start with. And it's also more of a professional platform. So we hop on during the day, or on our commute or after work when we're still commuting. So sitting there watching a live conversation isn't necessarily or people are coming onto the platform for.
So what people are interested in learning on LinkedIn is about what's happening in the industry. What are the new services and products? Can I have a job? Can I hire people, this is the reason why people come on to LinkedIn, it's a very different intention compared to Instagram, for example. When you're waiting for a coffee, you just want to waste some time and kill some time you hop onto Instagram, because it's easy to consume. It's entertaining, but you don't think about it.
Whereas LinkedIn, you actually want to learn something. So that content also needs to be different. So polls are an easy way to create content, engaging other people's content, easy way. And the next one would be a carousel post. Because it's the same as on Instagram, it has this beautiful swipe feature that you can actually scroll through, and people are interested in that. And that also has a higher what's called dwell time. So you stay on it for longer, because you actually have to click to the third, second and fourth slide. And it's a great way for you to break down content and also repurpose content from Instagram. We can use exactly the same size and technically the same content and repurpose it. The only difference in how we uploaded is not as a JPEG or PNG, but as a PDF or Word document. That's the only difference.
Lauren
Yeah, I'm looking at how you do that on your profile looks really good, really good.
Petra
It's nice and this is, you know, we can eat and educate but at the same time also entertain. And another really well performing type of content are infographics. When you go on to my featured section, you will see the second post I've pinned is a pyramid. And I thought, you know, I also posted on Instagram and I got an okay engagement, not amazing, to be honest, and I posted it on LinkedIn. and it was only a few weeks ago, I had over 200 likes and comments. But more importantly, reshares, which is actually kind of penalized by LinkedIn, because it's seen as a duplicated concept. But I've had literally our 50 reshares on it, and more importantly, the connections that I got from it. Because what I did, I broke down a complex method or an idea into a very easy visual. And people can resonate with it and say, oh, this is how it works. So I did the thinking for others to demonstrate what I know about my topic, rather than saying, you know, all the technical terms, nobody cares. So infographics are also a great way for you to share content.
Phil
I was just gonna say, Okay, this is so good. You're inspiring me to finally be more active on this platform that I generally find boring.
Petra
That's exciting. And you know, if you post two, three times a week, you're already ahead of the game because less than 1% is posting anyway, so we don't have to spend that much time. If I put away five minutes in the mornings and five minutes at night and engage in other people's content, ticking the box. I create four questions for one question per week as a poll, ticking a box that takes me another two minutes. Then I can repurpose a couple of carousels for LinkedIn ticking a box. So we don't have to recreate the wheel on LinkedIn, we can just be smarter rather than working harder.
Lauren
Now, are there any benefits of sharing articles and tagging the publication that wrote the article? So for example, if you saw a Forbes article you really liked, is there a benefit to sharing that article on your LinkedIn and tagging Forbes, or is it better to create original content?
Petra
You made a good point, sharing other people's content, especially those authorities in their field is definitely a great way to do it. However, I never get any engagement. And I've seen it with other people. If you get two likes, you're already really good. So what I would recommend is to actually take a screenshot of something that you want to share, definitely see the person or the company, who published it, but then put a link into the first comments. Because also, when you put it in the comment in the content section, you actually show LinkedIn that you take people away from the platform. Whereas if you put it in the first comments, they don't pick it up. And I also found out that when you post it without the link, and then you go back and edit it and add the link, after you posted it, initially, the algorithm doesn't pick it up. So it also doesn't get penalized.
Lauren
Yeah, I've seen now that you mentioned that I've seen Gary Vee does the first comment thing a lot. Like whenever he's sharing a blog post, he posts the photo, but then it'll be in the first comment where he actually links to it. So I guess that's why.
Phil
That is why.
Petra
And, you know, this is also from talking about the social proof aspect, the benefit of it, because if you engage in other people's content, those connections see you. So now they come to your profile. So you can increase your network and your visibility very easily without you actually having to post your own content on the feed. And this is the power of quickly multiplying the right network with the right people. Because if you're following certain hashtags, for example, and those keywords and the people associated with it will already established, you see who else is interested in those topics. And this is an easy way to find the commonalities and have the conversation.
Lauren
Amazing.
Phil
So good. So good. Okay, where can people go to get more from you, you're such a wealth of knowledge?
Petra
LinkedIn it is. One more case study that I want to finish off on, Microsoft. So I'm very, very lean and mean team small, but Microsoft found me on LinkedIn. Now what he put in there, were only saying personal brands, and Vienna. Now I haven't lived in Vienna for 11 years. But the HR manager literally said you were the only one who came up. So this is the power of it. So they engaged me, even though I'm in Australia, I could see work with the Australian Microsoft team, because I was the only option. So this is hopefully another motivation why you want to optimize your profile with the right keywords, because people are looking for your services already, no matter what it is.
So the best way to connect with me, obviously is LinkedIn. That would be the first point to have a conversation. And more information is also on my website, which is impaccct.com.
Lauren
This has been amazing.
Phil
Yes, I have pages of notes. Our listener probably has pages of notes like very specific actionable things that they can go and do. Petra you've been such a joy. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for hanging out with us and giving us such tangible tips here on Brand Therapy.
Petra
Thanks so much for having me. I love your show and the love how practical you always make every topic so keep on going with the great work. Thank you so much.
Phil
Thank you
