166. How do you build a design business? (f. Shyne Webster)
Dreaming of turning your side gig into a full-time career? ☁️ Then get ready for major inspiration from this Brand Therapy episode. Brand strategists and hosts Phil and Lauren meet with Shyne Webster, who's an agency owner, founder, storyteller, and (get this) full-time student. Shyne spills her secrets to juggling a successful agency at only 19 years old while also shedding light on Gen Z's content expectations. For a dose of sunshine to your day, don't miss this episode with Shyne!
Episode transcription
Phil
Well, hello there. Welcome to Brand Therapy. I'm Phil.
Lauren
And I'm Lauren.
Phil
And this is the podcast where we help you position, build, and promote your brand. Welcome. You picked an excellent episode to listen to. In fact, when you find out the age of this accomplished, esteemed, stylish and cool individual, you might have your own little mental breakdown because that's how I'm feeling. Okay, that's how I'm feeling after spending even just a few minutes in the presence of the wonderful Shyne Webster, who is so incredibly accomplished at 19 years old, is a fellow Adobe Creative Cloud Express ambassador. I have to say when I got that invite, I looked up who the other ambassadors were, and I found you, Shyne I was like, oh, she is so cool. And we become little BFFs via IG. This is our first time actually having a conversation seeing each other's faces virtually what magic and you're on our podcast today. Welcome to Brand Therapy, we're going to talk about all kinds of things valuable like content creation and sponsored content and building a business you’re still in university. What on earth! Welcome to Brand Therapy.
Shyne
Hello, thank you for having me. That was such a wonderful introduction. I feel like there's nothing else to say other than I'm so excited. And my favorite part of that was not you know, the esteem, not the impressiveness, but the fact that you called me stylish and cool. I think I can retire
Phil
Well, in do you want to know what's funny, you just complimented me on my intro, but I didn't even really because I have so many compliments to shower you with I didn't even actually tell people what you do for a living other than you're in university. You've also created this incredible brand. You've created sponsored content partnerships already. You have such a cool aesthetic. So maybe since I'm terrible at telling people what you do, why don't you tell our listener some of the things that you're up to.
Shyne
Yes, absolutely. First of all, no worries about the compliments words of affirmation is my primary love language. So that's the number one thing you need to know about me. So if you find me on any socials, please shower me with them totally fine, and invite you to do so. So as Phil said, my name is Shyne. I am from California. I am 19. I'm in full time business and full time university. So I don't have a life. I don't have time, I don't know. But I have founded a brand consultancy service sort of design studio, called Designed by Shyne. We are fully Gen Z, fully women of color owned and operated. so props to us on that. We do a lot of things. But really what we do is just work with awesome brands and turn good businesses into awesome, irreplaceable brands, unique aesthetics. I have a individuality complex, so it really comes through in branding. But yeah, that's a little bit about me.
Phil
There's nothing kind of about your business. So I'm going to ask you to be reframing the way you describe that with 100% confidence from now and moving forward. There's nothing kind of about your brand consultancy. When people land on you and what you've created, it looks like something that has been running for a decade. What you've created, even in the few number of years you've been on the planet, excuse me, I'm just so proud of what you've built and what you have to show for your brand. And I'm so excited for where it's even going. So remove ‘kind of’ from your language. Thank you.
Shyne
Yes, I will from here on out no more ‘kind of’.
Lauren
So Shyne, how did you get into this? I mean, it's not normal, in the best way possible. It's not normal for someone to go to school, but also simultaneously be launching a business like that's rare and special. So how did this happen?
Shyne
It honestly happened, unintentionally. So this is maybe why I say kind of and stuff like that, because it does feel a little bit like a whirlwind overnight success. And I mean, of course, that's not true. I put in my hours, I've done all the things that need to be done. But I started Design by Shyne actually as a clothing brand in 2019. So coming out of high school, I was just doodling around on my laptop, and I put together some illustrations. They're very like surfy, you know, California inspired, and I sent them to my friends and they were like, these need to be on shirts. So then I put them on shirts. I've been designing shirts for school and stuff a little while before and so I was gung ho about it. I put them on shirts, and then I opened up a shop on Big Cartel, you know, didn't really know what I was doing. And then they sold and then I got to college and they sold even more and there was buzz and everyone was like, Who is this Design by Shyne girl. I love your shirts like blah, blah, blah. And so we had a little momentum for about a year I released another collection that sold out in 30 minutes at midnight, which was insane for you know, hometown brand.
And then about six months later, so this brings us to about 2020 Summer of peak COVID I entered a contest for a scholarship for black entrepreneurs, and I thought it was just to win money. I was just trying to get some capital, make more shirts, I was just, you know, thinking very small, but it ended up being even better. So I want three months of business coaching. And I realized that I could actually sell my services. So then I quickly pivoted, selling my graphic design services, I learned what branding was on the spot. I didn't know what branding was before I started. And then I just started offering it somehow took really naturally to it. Did a lot of learning, like on the job, if you will, and then we just quickly booked out in the first three months, and then after that, I just had momentum, and I was booking and I think I picked up a lot of skills very quickly on the way. And so now, two ish years later, we have a solid client roster. And I've worked with over 80 brands, and I'm doing sponsored content. You know, I'm an Adobe partner now. So it does feel a little like there was a whirlwind. But it's crazy to think that it traces back to me right out of high school making T shirts.
Lauren
Yeah. And also listening to your passions, but also listening to the people around you. I think it's really important there if you hadn't listened to your friends, and made those T shirts happen. I mean, I don't know if you'd be where you are today, which is very cool.
Shyne
Yeah, absolutely. I think a lot of my success is not it's not luck. It's not luck. It's a product of specific things. But one of those things is definitely having the right people around me at the right moments, because it's always been my friends and my community and just finding the right connections that has kind of propelled me to where I am. So yeah, totally.
Lauren
Amazing. Okay, we've got a whole bunch of questions about sponsored content. Now, Phil, is also an Adobe ambassadors, you know, because that's how you chew, Matt. And the whole world of affiliates. And sponsored content is not new for our clients, but it's actually new for Phil, and for our company. It's a new frontier. So to start things off, what do you wish creators knew about sponsored deals?
Shyne
I wish creators knew that sponsor deals were more possible and more flexible than you think they are. Because I honestly before working with Adobe, never really thought about content creation, sponsored content creation. I didn't really know what that looked like, I thought that meant you had to be a huge influencer, posting a direct product shot saying, here's my code for 20% off. I didn't really realize that it could kind of work into the content that you're already creating. And oftentimes, that's why brands come to you because they like what you're doing. And they just kind of weave themselves into that, you know, cleverly and strategically, but you don't have to change your whole sort of content plan or what you do, just to fit a brand. I pretty much try to weave in the products as naturally as possible. And it's not, you know, hey, I'm an ambassador for this use this code for 20% off. I mean, of course, you know, sometimes you have to say that stuff. But it's a lot more. I don't know, I guess kind of natural and approachable than I originally imagined it would be.
Lauren
Fascinating. And do you usually reply to inquiries for sponsored content that come to you? Or have you ever tried any outbound efforts?
Shyne
Yeah, I just kind of take them as they come, I don't do really any like outbound looking for them. I get a lot of random ones in my email accounts, so that I just kind of have my assistant filter through them, to see if anything's really viable, and things that like would align with my passions and what I'm creating. But so far, I've been very fortunate that the brands have reached out to me and they're really cool rooms, so I'm not looking too hard.
Lauren
There are so many great TikTok videos in particular that bring transparency to pricing around sponsored content. And I think of Her First 100k, who posted that viral video about how much she charges and then everyone in the comments realized that they were grossly under charging for their videos, which was probably to the nightmare of every brand on the planet. So regardless, I want to know, how do you approach pricing your sponsored content deals? Do you get long term partnerships, you just price like as when, what does that look like?
Shyne
Right now, kind of what's on my docket are longer term partnerships. So with Adobe, and with other brands, you know, I'm doing sort of like monthly things, or I'm on a year long contract. And so that's kind of just one lump sum, or, you know, they'll tell me, like, it'll just be a set amount every month for whatever ask, you know, you can choose kind of within these parameters, what you want to create. But other than that, I try to just do project based in terms of this is terrible. I kind of undercharged and I'm aware that I under charge, but it's also because I don't look at content creation as a huge part of my income, and it's not something I really rely on or am too dependent on. So it's just kind of a fun bonus for me, which is probably why I do undercharge, which I shouldn't but anyways, so I tried to estimate like the value of what I'm creating. So you know, for a post, it might be like a couple $100 And also just be asked itself, like how much time and how much energy, it's going to take me. Some things I know I can kind of get away with, you know, low energy, it's kind of easy for me to do. So I'm not going to charge a whole ton. I'm not suggesting that you do, because if you're good at something, it can still be valuable and feel easy. So you shouldn't undercharged, just because something feels easy, just to disclaimer, but that's what I've been doing. So I do that, but I have a quote unquote, media kit with some rates in it. And that's kind of my starting. So just I guess a rough ballpark. I mean, a feed post, a couple $100, a reel little bit more than that, stories are pretty, honestly pretty inexpensive to me, but they're not super high energy. So that's kind of how I price based on value, and honestly, more, so my energy output.
Lauren
That's so interesting. I love that perspective, actually, because you could take on more low energy projects so that it makes sense that you would want that price to be a bit lower.
Phil
It's something I think a lot about when an email comes in from a brand and isn't it interesting Shyne, how sometimes you anticipate something being a certain level of energy, and you price accordingly, but then you're wrong. What you anticipated sometimes in a good way, okay, I say wrong, because I'm like, sometimes I'm in the middle of a project right now that I thought was gonna be an absolute nightmare. And it's going so well. And I really enjoyed it. And some of these brands, some of them, one of them that I signed on recently, I thought it was going to be amazing, and they were horribly disorganized, and slide approvals. Yes. Not naming who they are. Don't I'm trying
I just haven't enjoyed the work. I'll tell you who that's not, and that's Adobe. And they get a shameless plug in this podcast episode because I freaking love working with Adobe shout out to Emily Corbin.
Can we talk about her and how amazing she is. So she's on the Adobe side for Creative Cloud Express. But I said to another sizable brand this morning on a call. I said brand, rather than going and hiring individual influencers through an influencer agency for a one off campaign, you really need to think about doing something even close to what Adobe is doing, which is actually building actual ambassadors of the product. They do it so well and they make me feel so loved. And I do they do feel as am I like I just I freaking love that program.
Shyne
Yes, I 1,000% echo everything you've said. They are truly building a community and they are a brand worth evangelizing. And I think that's something really important. I think for a lot of us, of course, we're doing it, you know, it's good money, we enjoy it. It's a mutual exchange, but I think we can say most of us genuinely enjoy working with Adobe and genuinely enjoy creating content for them because they are easy to work with. Yeah, I'm proud to be an ambassador and they're great. They treat us well. They send us care packages. It's fantastic. I think that's a perfect example of how brands can treat creators.
Phil
Can I tell you something funny, because I was traveling all of last year when I signed on with the program, I was never really able to participate in these Adobe Ambassador meetups like virtual meetups. So when I came home in December after being gone for seven months, my property manager had a box that was dedicated to like all the packages that arrived from Adobe. So I started opening all of these things that had arrived that I compounded. Oh my god, there was an iPad, there was this like light thing. There was a backpack there were socks. There was spray paint and this empty canvas that was one of the activities that I didn't get to participate in because I was in Turkey. It felt like Christmas it was like Adobe Santa Claus. And I just felt so loved. I think people out there we're not saying go pitch yourself to Adobe, it might not align with your brand's, what we're saying shines making very, very good argument here that don't just say yes, because of the money involved say yes, because of your enthusiasm around evangelizing the brand. And so my first Adobe was a one off deal it was a couple $100 for a feed post that did okay, it wasn't that great. But they loved the effort I put into it and invited me into the program the program actually I wasn't sure if I was going to commit to it because it would have meant that I didn't mention other online graphic design tools and competitors, and I thought, oh my god, I've already created content around that and I've recommended it and then not doing that. And honestly, I'm so happy that I pulled the trigger on it because I spoke at Max so did you I have done YouTube videos with them live stream so have you You and I are like little Adobe love child like we're just like, you know, we participate and I do it with such enthusiasm.
I just love it. And it's led to so many opportunities, I think because they watch to see who's actually excited who actually puts a good effort forward. I would say in my friend, Jenny, Melrose listener, if you're listening to this, and you're like, oh, I need to learn more about sponsored content, go back and listen to the Jenny Melrose episode, where she's one of the great tips she gives is, if you're wanting to do this, which by the way, everyone can even your job doesn't have to be a creator, you could be a student university, you could be a brand strategist, you could be a plumber. And you could be building a side business of content creation, sponsored content creation, but she says make a list from the morning you wake up what you use toothpaste, toothbrush, walk downstairs, make your coffee, like, literally make a list of all the brands and things that you touch day to day and start by reaching out to them, because you're already fans of the product.
Shyne
So good. Yes. Also, just to kind of talk that, I don't know if you're familiar with JT Barnett on Tik Tok. He's this massive content creator and educator now, but he has said some of the same things like, go down to your pantry, record a quick video about something that you love, shoot it to them, shoot a preview to them and say, hey, look, you know, I love this, I can do this xx xx kind of pitch yourself and honestly pitch yourself for a project or a campaign or whatever, and say, like, I have this idea in mind, or I can do this type of content for you. Here's, you know, what a possible rate would look like I already use you every day, my audience would love you. Let me know what you think. And it's just so true. Like, I think the best brand deals are the ones that are things that you're already using or things that are aligned with who you are. And I think Phil can attest to this as well. But Adobe is something that in the creative and design world, like household name, household name, I mean, now I probably wouldn't have done it for free. But if they would have asked me to do it for free, the very first time I almost would have just to get my foot in the door and be associated with this brand. Like, hello, Yeah, same.
So for our listeners who have a full time job, or full time students, or requirements like yourself, but they're wanting to get something going on the side, what are your recommendations? How do you recommend launching a side business or a side gig without losing sleep? And how do you do it successfully?
Oh, this is a loaded question. I think, one, get really clear on what your values and goals are, you will probably see a lot of different opportunities and a lot of things to say yes to and a lot of things that could possibly help you. But it's really important to know where you want to end up so that you only say yes to the things that are getting you there. Because you can still be moving with no direction and feel like you're doing good things, but they're not getting you ultimately where you want to be. And I've learned this the hard way, a little bit of a recovering people pleaser. So I say yes, a lot. But the things that you say no to are just as important as the things you say yes to. So number one, like really be intentional about where you're giving your energy. Number two, I plan everything. I don't know if I was this like Type A before. But I have like three sort of calendar tasks, project management tools that I use, and I like triple plan everything. So my Google Calendar has everything it has, you know, my appointments, and it also has what I plan to work on for a given time, I use a physical planner that has my daily to do's and my appointments. And I use click up which is like a task management project management tool that also has all of those things. I'm super forgetful. So I need to see everything wherever I am. So like let's say I'm in school, I'll only have my planner with me, I still need to be reminded of the things that I have to do in my business and vice versa. So I think that's another one like being very organized with what you have to do. I know people say to set healthy work life boundaries, but I'm just going to be so honest, I think the first couple months are a true hustle. Like I know, we are all about ease and flow. And I'm not saying to make things harder for yourself. But the first couple months are hard like it's hard you're working you know, are in school nine to five and then you have your five to nine like you honestly do have to put in the hours at the beginning and not shying away from that I think is a good way to go. Just because I don't know like a business is kind of at least when you're starting by yourself a business is kind of like your baby and it's a labor of love and you have to put time in or it's not going to grow so being willing to put that time in I guess is a huge one. But definitely things like you know an email address making sure you have just a separate work email, separate work business separate work slash business bank account is a good one. You know, get your tools in order. Get your invoicing tools in order for a brand or you know have like some sort of content calendar tool if you want to be posting you know, sponsored content, plan out how many of these posts you can create in a month, batch them over a weekend. That way you still have your work week or your school week to focus on that thing. You know, just kind of divvy up your time. Plan ahead and that way, you can give everything its full attention but just not all at the same time.
I love it, I find it so refreshing that you are acknowledging, but a hustle is kind of necessary. Because I feel the exact same way when I was working full time at an ad agency but wanting to join Phil, I knew that I needed to work really, really hard to get Phil's place of business to a place where both of us could be working without like splitting, funding Phil's income in half. And I worked really, really hard like really, really hard and mornings, lunch breaks, evenings, weekends. And I basically had two full time jobs until I got to a point where I could join him full time. And I think that there's obviously this movement about mental health and wellness and self care. That's so important. But at the same time, sometimes making your dreams come true requires sacrifices for a few months. And this might be really controversial. But I think sometimes your wellness has to be put on the backburner for a little bit if you're wanting to make a big change in your life.
No, I totally agree. And you know, I'm not saying like, that's how it should be. But that's how it is in reality. Yeah, it's not sexy all the time. Unfortunately, I have put in nicer I stayed up past midnight, I've put in days where I didn't see my friends, or I didn't talk to my family because I was working. And obviously, that's not how I would have wanted it to go. But I did that in the beginning for a couple months. So that now I can just, oh, I want to go to the beach today, I'm not going to go to work, or, Oh, my junior designer can take this on, like I'm chilling this week. It's just, it's sort of an investment, you're investing in yourself, you're investing in your dream. And so you have to kind of take that loss at the beginning. So you can have that higher win at the end, or in the process. Love it.
What point wise.
Yeah, at what point did you decide to hire an assistant,
I hired an assistant, probably a year after my business, or like maybe six to eight months, I hired an assistant pretty early on because I'm a visionary. I'm an idea person. i Dream big, but execution is not my strength. And I have a terrible memory. And I'm organized. But I'm also a little chaotic. So I needed someone who could really come in and focus on the details and like admin and execution side of things. Um, usually something I've noticed is like, when you think you're ready to hire is actually after you are ready to hire. So I started to realize I needed an assistant after things were slipping through the cracks, like, I would wait five days to respond to an email or, you know, my clients maybe didn't hear from me in a week and stuff like that. And that's not good, I don't want to be doing that, that hurts my brand that hurts, you know, maybe like my professional reputation. And especially if you want to work with brands, be someone that's easy to work with right to be someone communicative. And so I wanted to prioritize that and the experience I was providing for the brands and clients that I worked with. So I decided to hire an assistant pretty early on. And I mean, you can find people with kind of a small scope of work or whatever budget you're at. And you know, you don't necessarily have to go bring on a full time employee like mine was a contractor for 10 hours a month. That's not huge. And it was definitely worth what I was seeing in return. So that was just my experience.
I love that I love that you've learned these lessons that often take people years in business that you've already like implemented and you haven't even graduated yet. I think it's super cool, is what you're learning in school going to directly complement the business you're building. Are there any things that you're waiting to like launch until you finish school? Or like what is your master plan? So many people go through? Like I did a thesis that was on an imaginary business that I didn't actually make? How cool is it that you already have a business that your business like school is gonna fuel?
Yeah, so I go to school for graphic design. And so for me, it was kind of weird at first when I started my business, because I was like a freshman in design school starting a design business. And I didn't really know, I mean, I knew stuff about design, I was, you know, a good designer in terms of potential, but like, I have a lot of areas in design to improve it. So it was kind of weird, but it's also kind of nice, because everything I'm learning in classes directly translates in my client work. So I'm producing better client work. And you can see from like my first client to, you know, my clients now the growth. And I think largely that's come from me going through school, and becoming a better designer in classes and having professors and my peers around me to like make me better. And of course, it's great in my client work because my clients are happy, and I can raise my prices and my clients don't really know any better. Like they're not designers. They thought what I made at the beginning was great, I can see the improvement, which is what matters. But in terms of the actual business side of things, that's honestly something where my education has been lacking in school. I learned a lot about design and design thinking and the creative process. But I just don't know if there's enough time for an undergrad program to teach you all that, and also teach you how to run a design business or even truly, freelance successfully. So for me, I've kind of found that outside of school, you know, through professional organizations or business coaches or just the internet, but I've had a little bit more free time on my school schedule. So I've been taking business classes as electives. And those who have been huge, I'm taking a social entrepreneurship class right now, which is like, all about making a social impact and not something that I'm directly applying in my business model. Now, kind of going back to the drawing board and like, figuring out how I can make more of a difference in my community now that I know how to run the actual business. So I mean, there are things that if you pick and choose, they can apply, but I'm definitely not learning unfortunately, how to run a successful business in school.
Now you'll learn it from doing you'll learn it from doing I think the graphic design the way that you frame like how you're getting value from that immediately. I think that's almost more important in this stage. And so much of business you'll learn by doing, I think it's great.
Amazing. I think that's true. I think that's been true for my experience, too. I honestly believe there's only so much you can learn in the classroom about business, like you just have to do it. So I wouldn't switch it. I feel really good about it. And I think it's been super helpful. But yeah,
amazing. You've shared so much wisdom with us. You've kept it real I love your perspective on all of this and I think you are going to be so successful.
Thank you. I mean, you already are you already are likelier
that like this is going to go Yeah, the fact the things that you've figured out already are, you know, they're just gonna set you are just rise and I think you have such a good attitude.
Like when I was 19 I was just figuring out like how to do gag or bombs like that was like that's, that's that's the mind of a normal 19 year old. It's amazing.
I'm still trying to figure it out. So let me know.
Not that great. Not that great. Really
overrated. Listen, we appreciate you hanging out with us on brand therapy where can people find you?
You can find me anywhere on any platform at designed by shine. sh y me for shine, and come say hi if you listen to this, please shoot me a message or something I would love
to yes do that. I always say that too. I'm like we took this effort to listen to this you might as well say hi by now it takes two seconds right? Go ahead and and say hi to shine designed by shine and also follow her I love your Instagram content. And I'll see you on the interwebs I've loved getting to see your face and have this conversation to share with our listener. Thank you for hanging out with us on brand here. Thank you
