74. How do you stay productive?
Work smart, not hard. 🤓 In this episode, hosts Phil and Lauren chat about all things productivity. From tips to managing inbox overflow to owning your calendar, this episode is all about winning back minutes in your day. If you're trying to establish new habits and feel more control over your day-to-day, give this episode a listen!
This episode is sponsored by A Personal Revolution Podcast .
Episode transcription
Phil
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Phil:
Well, hello, welcome to Brand Therapy. I'm Phil.
Lauren:
And I’m Lauren.
Phil:
And this is a podcast where we help you position, build and promote your brand. Welcome. I'm so happy you're here.
Lauren:
Every time you say that, I'm wondering like, Are you saying it to me or the listeners? I just gotta get used to it.
Phil:
You have to get used to it. This is like that's your cue to just jump in and start swimming in the deep end.
Lauren:
You know, I'm like, Oh, well, thank you. I'm happy to be here too. Yes, there's been for 70 plus episodes.
Phil:
So actually, you know, this is interesting because you are taking the reins on today's conversation. I think before we dive into the topic, I want you to shed some light on maybe how we've restructured the podcast to facilitate conversations. Like what we're about to have?
Lauren:
Yes. So happy to explain this. So basically, we've been doing this podcast for over a year now, or 70 plus episodes deep, and we were finding that by having guests come on to the podcast over and over, it was great, but we were finding that we weren't diving as deep into personal branding and business as we wanted and as our listeners wanted. You know, when a guest comes on work, we would kind of be like, sort of at the mercy of whatever topic they wanted to discuss, and we feel like there's so much more that we can provide through the podcasts in terms of help with social media, specific platforms, blogging, writing, like all that. So we've switched things up. And this is the very first official episode, where it's just you and I, Phil, having a little chat.
Phil:
Yeah, we haven't really I mean, you've prepared a bit more than me, I haven't prepared anything, but essentially, no, right, you and I will take turns kind of like, I don't know being in charge of the episode, delete the discussion. So I've always said that the podcast for me is, I hope useful for the listener, but honestly, for me this is actually, I'm more selfish, and I love the fact that we have this podcast is kind of like continuing education. So I like to learn new things I like to be learning from interesting people. That's how I use this podcast. So while it's hopefully useful for the listener, because we bring you along for the journey for me, I like it because we have conversations we wouldn't have otherwise, where we learn things we wouldn't otherwise learn. So that's my take on this.
Lauren:
Totally, and we're still gonna be having episodes with experts. And it's all planned out. We've got some really, really great ones in the pipeline talking about very specific topics. So it's not only going to be the two have us even though I'm sure listeners, that's what you would like, no, just kidding. We're gonna be alternating basically episodes with Phil and me and then episode with a guest.
Phil:
Let's do it. The topic today is productivity. Okay, why did you choose this as the topic?
Lauren:
Well, we had a call where someone I can't should I say this?
Phil:
I don't know what you're about to say.
Lauren:
Since our call with Brad, I've been thinking a lot about productivity. And I just thought it would be really like interesting for us to have a conversation about we always talk about productivity, right? We it's a word that's thrown around a lot. Like let's be productive today. Let's make this a really productive call. But you and I haven't ever had the chance to really like talk about what productivity means to us, like to each of us what hacks we have for staying productive, how we manage our inbox and things like this. And I was thinking that not only could we like learn from each other, but maybe our listeners could get kind of a glimmer into How we work?
Phil:
Yeah. And it's funny, you often bring up the word productivity. And I immediately jump to, oh, there's something I'm not doing a good job of. I immediately jumped to this place of oh my god, I know, there's 400 other things that I should be doing to be more productive. But at the same time, I think that we should probably both take a step back and realize we are a two person business, we do quite well. And we more importantly, what's more important than I think making money is actually just enjoying what we do day to day. But there's a lot that you and I do between the two of us, that I think on the outside to the average person, probably people would go, wow, they are very productive. So we'll give us credit. I guess I'll start with that.
Lauren:
I think so. But it's so interesting, because you just said, when I think of productivity, the word productivity, I think about how I have 400 other things that I should be doing. But I don't necessarily think that's what productivity is, to me. Productivity isn't necessarily about accomplishing a lot in a quick amount of time, productivity is more about working smart instead of working hard, don't you think?
Phil:
I do. And it's easy to confuse those two things. And I think that you constantly need to be pressing your mind to make sure you are working smart, and not working hard all the time. That being said, there are things that I should probably be delegating that I enjoy doing. Can I give you an example?
Lauren:
Please.
Phil:
I love making YouTube thumbnails. I find it really fun. And I, after a day of being on calls and stuff like that, where I'm really on, I just enjoy the monotony of cutting my head out of the picture and pasting it with my own little system in Canva and making those. Should I delegate that, yes. Do I enjoy doing it, yes. Have I delegated it yet, no, because I enjoy it. I don't know if that's good or bad.
Lauren:
Well, I don't know if that's good or bad either. because, you know me, I'm really bad at delegating. And I think, well, Phil likes doing the YouTube thumbnails, he knows what he likes for the end result of the YouTube thumbnails, would it take more time for someone else to try doing the YouTube thumbnails and then he and Phil go, or he or she and Phil go back and forth about the stupid thumbnail? When you could just do it in the first place, though. That's like my main issue with productivity.
Phil:
Yeah, it's hard that moment of okay, do I take the time to teach and delegate and then correct or do I just do it myself? I think people can relate with that.
Lauren:
Totally. But I think you actually are really good at delegating, for the most part, I think about when you work with people on the team, and you're pretty good at deciding and explaining when someone else should help you with something. And I think that does make you ultimately more productive, don't you think?
Phil:
I do. I am happy to get rid of things that I don't want to do. So when it comes to being productive, though, like this is controversial, if you and I were up against each other in a race, you would win the race if it comes to productivity. But I think it's because you and I have different personality types and you work better in structure, and you are able to just I think you're more disciplined in general.
Lauren:
I don't know about that.
Phil:
No, I do. I am not disciplined. If it's four o'clock on an afternoon and all of a sudden I see a picture of someone drinking wine, then I want wine. And my evening is written off. That was yesterday.
Lauren:
I drink wine too, but at my desk.
Phil:
Yeah, no, I do it at my desk, just because I'm sitting at my desk doesn't mean I'm being productive. But you know what I should say, that did happen yesterday, but that was after pre selling and surpassing a goal that I set for pre selling the course I mentioned at the beginning of this podcast, so I was kind of celebrating.
Lauren:
Okay, I have some just general questions about productivity so I think that people could get a window into our two different working styles and also some things we've heard of other people doing. So when you are feeling ultra productive when you are being ultra productive, what does that setting look like? Do you use a list to keep track of everything? Do you turn off all notifications? Set the scene for me.
Phil:
Well, within our business, we and this has been just life changing for us, we keep track of all of the things we're doing in a project management tool called Asana. Now let's go down memory lane and remember how many apps and systems we tried prior to settling on Asana. Lauren, you can speak specifically as to why we chose this, you created this system that I just follow, but that's where I thrive. I'm not necessarily the system creator, but I can certainly follow the rules if it makes sense for me. So for me a productive day, we'll talk more about Asana in a second and some of the apps we use with it because I recommend everyone use it, but for me, a productive day, looks like having clarity in the morning on what it is I want to finish by the end of the day.
I remember a long time ago, when we were speaking with one of our past clients, Dinesh, who is on our website, he's in my presentations a lot, but he said, honestly have one thing that you want to finish by the end of the day, and just work ruthlessly, to finish that one thing. And while it seems kind of crazy to only finish one thing, I think it makes sense, right? Because we, you know, you get so distracted in the day like phone alerts, emails, everything pulling you in all these different directions, have in your head, one thing you want to finish and just make sure you finish it.
So for me, it's having clarity on that in the morning. And then yes, removing distractions, or at least if I'm pulled in a few different directions to just manage that and go that can be dealt with tomorrow. And just really focusing for me, that would be like scripting, YouTube videos, shooting YouTube videos, it could be writing if I have to write something. For me, I am not good at just setting aside here's one hour work on this for an hour and finish later. I'm either all in or all out. That's my style.
Lauren:
Yep. For sure. It's interesting that you bring up Dinesh’s advice, because I was reading before this call about different prioritization methods. And I was reading that Warren Buffett recommends that you write down a list of 25 things you need to do that day. And then you think about what your goals are, and you circle the five things on that list that'll get you closer to your long term goals and do whatever you can to delegate the rest.
Phil:
I love that idea.
Lauren:
Isn’t that's fascinating? And there's something also called the Ivy Lee Method. It's very similar to what Dinesh was saying where you choose one thing of the day you want to do but with the Ivy Lee Method, the night before you start working, you write down six things, the six most important things that you want to accomplish the next day and just like what Dinesh said, you are laser focused on accomplishing those six things and everything else has to wait.
Phil:
Where did the number six come from?
Lauren:
I have no idea. I've no idea. But I feel like it makes sense though, because then if you've, if you've got your top six most important things, it's not like too much to accomplish in a day, you know, depending on how long it is. And then adding on to that with Ivy Lee Method, if you don't finish all six things, you finish four, for example, the two roll over to the next day, and you start on those first, and then you add to your list.
Phil:
feel like six is a good number. In general, I don't know where the number came from. But realistically, if you were to choose six things, I think that accurately reflects how many things you do obviously depends how big each thing is, it's a bit ambiguous, but I normally this is a bit different. But when I think about structuring my day and doing billable work, obviously I have to bill hours in order to run a business. I can realistically do four billable hours a day. I can do four hours of phone calls because I could do four hours of website making. No, websites, I usually, honestly would go straight through probably six to eight. Because that’s one of my focus projects. That doesn't count, but everything else on average four billable hours a day, so maybe six things a day sounds about right.
Lauren:
Yep. Yep. So sorry, I interrupted you, though. So you set the tone, you have your list of things to do. We made a really interesting discovery a few years ago, and it's I think it's one of the best decisions that we've ever made aside from choosing Asana, and that was grouping calls on Tuesdays and Thursdays. Do you want to talk a little bit about that?
Phil:
Yep. So basically, what we do is only take phone calls, unless someone has died or there's a major emergency, we only take phone calls on Tuesdays and Thursdays. We don't just do one day a week because that can be limiting. For example, if someone on a Wednesday asks for a call, and they have to wait a week, it's not great. So for us to have two days where we have phone calls, and we stack them, it means that we can have a greater chance of having a full day that's uninterrupted. I do not thrive when my day is being segmented into constant diversions. And I mean that let's say I'm looking at my calendar for Thursday, and I have an intro call at 10am, another call at 1pm, another call at 5pm. I will not be productive that day, even though technically an intro call 15 minutes is only 45 minutes over the span of eight hours. I can't do a lot in between those things. That's just me.
Lauren:
Yeah, no, I'm the same way. I find the getting into call mode, like performance mode, so to speak, for a strategy call with a client and then shifting out of that and buckling down and doing work is a really, really brutal transition for me. It's really really hard for me as well.
Phil:
So tip number one, use one central place to keep Keep track of what it is you need to do based on research. It's about six things a day that you can pull off.
Tip number two, if you need to be on the phone, or you need to be interacting with people, I love for the fact right now that we are at home, and that's acceptable. Legally you have to stay home, but I wish that these quarantine rules would continue. When you think about the time that will go into commuting, getting ready to show up and realize trying to find a parking spot, then in person, it's harder to be, oh, sorry, I have another call, I have to go. See how much time is wasted that I feel like when people now are getting used to working from home, they're going to be more productive. So tip number two is organize your weekly schedule to allow for your energy levels and to allow for your productivity. So for example, rather than having the ability for people to book a call with you whenever they want, actually it should be your decision and your structure. For us after years of testing and tweaking This Tuesdays and Thursdays are awesome for this. Like, I don't really want to talk to a person on Monday I'll talk to you, but probably on Slack. I want Monday to allow me to ease into the week and to do what I want to do that day.
Lauren:
Yep, I'm the same, this exact same way. The few times that we've had really important Monday calls, my Sunday is thrown off. And like I mean, usually I do work on weekends, it's not something I'm particularly proud of, but I'd still like kind of eats away at me if I if I know we've got some big presentation or something to do on Monday. So I avoid Monday calls at all costs. I just find it just sets the right tone for my week.
Phil:
Well, this is a fun little conversation we're having all about productivity. Let's pause that for a second and talk about our sponsor, which makes Is it possible for us to have this conversation?
Lauren:
Do you want me to talk about Pat live?
Phil:
I do.
Lauren:
Great. So did you know that 76% of customers hang up if they don't reach a live person?
Phil:
I did not know that. I mean, I did know that from last week. But tell me more. Tell me more.
Lauren:
Well, 85% of customers won't call you back after an unanswered call. So when you're building a business, it's important to make sure that someone is there to answer every call and guess what PATLive answers when you can't.
Phil:
Yes, I actually really love this service. They have live answering services 365 days a year.Their agents are based in the US it's kind of like having your own personal receptionist but at a fraction of the cost. So what's cool they offer fully customizable scripts, call handling experiences to meet your business needs, and what's cool their Virtual Receptionist do everything from message taking call screening transfers, you name it, baby, they do it, which is awesome.
Lauren:
Great. So To learn more, visit PATLive.com, and you can learn more about how their live answering services can help you improve your business's productivity. Oh my god, productivity, listen to both of us productivity and profitability.
Phil, Lauren
Make every call count with PATLive.
Phil:
That was the worst of synchronization.
Lauren:
Are they ever gonna sponsor us again?
Phil:
So who are these fools? That's what they're thinking right now. Well, thank you, PATLive. Shall we get back to our conversation about money?
Lauren:
No. I have to mention the blog.
Phil:
Right. Right mention it.
Lauren:
The blog post this week is really, really, really good. It is our 10 favorite apps that help you be more productive. So if you feel like you're doing too much, and you need a tool to help you be even more productive in the theme of this episode, this blog post is here to help you. Now we can go back to the episode.
Phil:
Let's do it. Now back to our conversation about productivity with us.
Lauren:
I have another question for you, when you're feeling unproductive and disorganized, are there some things that you do immediately to like, get back into a productive place?
Phil:
Yes, I make my bed. Yep, I clean everything around me. Because for me, the biggest indicator of productivity I would say like in physical form is the space around me.
So I am so super jealous, I spend most of my time on YouTube, literally looking at people's office setups and desk setups and home office renovations. That's my guilty pleasure.
Lauren:
I had no idea.
Phil:
Yes and actually this is like more of a newer trend but I've always been fascinated by like workspaces or you know I love like one of my favorite brands is Ugmonk and he has a whole category of products all about your home office. I gifted you one for your birthday or for Christmas or something. Oh my god, I just I love that stuff. And while I love my life traveling and living in Airbnbs is all around the world, the one thing I miss is having a home office like a home studio for recording videos and good lighting and all of that stuff. I just can't when I'm on the road. I do pick Airbnbs based on natural light, and based on some of those things, making sure they're central so that I have access to things. But for me, I really miss the comfort of a big beautiful desk. That is awesome. So yeah, I would say clean up the space around you to make sure that you can really focus without any distractions if it feels dirty or cluttered around me, I just can’t operate.
Lauren:
Interesting. And then once you do that, and you come back to your desk like I'm basically trying to paint a picture of, what does it look like when you're feeling unproductive? And what do you do to fix that? Is your inbox a mess? Is your Asana crazy?
Phil:
Yes, so my inbox is a mess and my Asana might have a whole slew of outdated tasks, which that for me is the only downside of Asana is it can get out of control pretty quick if you are relying on deadlines that you set which could be client related, but they could also be self deadlines. So for me, which actually is a situation I have right now, I've put a lot of time lately into helping others doing live broadcasts, group coaching, recording podcasts, a lot of instances where I need to be on and output a lot of energy.
So after I have a day full of these kinds of things, I don't really feel or have the ability to just focus on interrupted so my inbox is out of control right now. So what I will do is first start in inbox, because I don't want anything in the inbox where I need to work from that. You do the same thing.
I actually think I may have learned this from you, but quickly get any actionable items from the inbox into your project management software. So I move let's say I need to reply to an email, if it's going to take me less than two minutes to reply to that email, I'm going to hop over to Asana, I say, you know, the the task title might be replied to Andrew. And what I do is I highlight the first portion of the sentence of that email and I put a quote mark, I don't close the quotation, I just put a quote mark and then the sentence from that email. And that quote mark is my little system to say, Oh, I copied and pasted this directly from the email. So copy that, search in the inbox, find the email that I need to reply to quickly that thread and then that allows me to work from one central place to organize what needs to be done. That's my system.
Get everything out of the inbox get to inbox zero so that then I can go focus on Asana update deadlines, I group things in Asana in three groups, clients, which is always priority projects, which are my own things. And housekeeping, which are the things I normally start with quickly. Those are like, you know, they don't take more than 10 minutes could be sending a recording of a strategy call. It could be updating my content calendar for the next week. Those things housekeeping, the general like loose rule is that it has to take less than 10 minutes. There you go. There's my system.
Lauren:
Interesting. I didn't know you grouped your Asana tasks that way, when it makes sense.
Phil:
Yeah, because I used to do it just solely based on deadlines, but my deadlines get out of control because I'm overly ambitious and what I can do in one day now learning from you, I should probably make sure there's a limit of only six things per day that are due. That makes sense.
Lauren:
Yeah, the six most important things. It's not like you like turn, throw in the towel when the six are done.
Phil:
Right, exactly. And actually, if you limit yourself to six things do per day, then when you finish those you can start to work on tomorrow back whatever is due tomorrow and actually feel isn't the the psychology element of that interesting. It's almost like wow, I'm ahead of the game. But it's smart because you feel good and inspires you to keep going, even though like nothing is totally, that's just the psychology.
Lauren:
Yeah, it's so interesting. I was thinking before this call about the same thing, if I'm feeling disorganized, or I'm on a bucking horse, and things are out of control, what are the things that I usually do or the reasons why I feel that way.
And so mine really comes down to six things, and there's a bit of overlap between ours but the first thing is usually if I'm feeling that way, the area around me is a disaster. So I tidy as well, that's like the first thing that I do because it's exactly for the exact same reasons that you've said.
And the next thing is also like you turning my inbox into specific actions. Sometimes I'll get an email where it requires a lot of thought and I have to think about it, I have to structure it, I have to ask people things and then I have to actually write the damn thing. But by turning the email into an action in my Asana, and even breaking it down into multiple steps, like ask Phil if he approves of this structure, and then I got rid of the email, It makes a huge difference, even if it's not done. That mental switch again of turning something into an action for me is key.
If I am feeling disorganized or unproductive, usually I'm also not following the two minute rule. So with like getting things done, if something takes two minutes or less in your life and at work, you should deal with it right away. And usually if I don't follow that, then I start things start to really kind of stockpile so I make sure I do that.
Another big one for me, I'm not so sure about you, Phil, but for me, I usually will feel scattered and not myself, if I don't have a good night's sleep, and more importantly, if I'm not in bed early. Usually I get in bed around 930 at night and I read for an hour or so sometimes a little more. And I find that if I don't do that my whole day, the following day it just feels off. I don't know, is that lame?
Phil:
No, you have to have a system I don't read. That's not like enjoyable for me. But then I also don't get angry at myself if I'm up late because I'm focused on something. That's another thing is like, yeah, you also have to wake up early normally, because I'm in a timezone that's a few hours ahead of you. Right now, at the time of recording this, we're closer in time zones than we have been in a while ever before. In Mexico. Usually I'm five or six, seven hours, eight hours ahead of you. So you're forced to wake up early, and then I'm doing calls a little bit later. So you basically just adapt to your system.
This whole pandemic situation means that I'm traveling a lot less. So I've been a lot more productive because I have less disruptions in my overall schedule. I would say that, yes, I still have found ways to be productive while on the road, but it is impossible to be as productive when you're traveling, compared to when you stay in one place and develop a routine. There is no way to travel and be as productive, then when you don't travel.
Lauren:
It's so hard. I can't do it.
Phil:
It is very hard.
Lauren:
Yeah. Yeah. Another thing that I do that I find really, really helps if I'm feeling like oh my god, there's so much to do, where do I begin I'm late on everything, is usually I'll remind myself that I'm not following my number one rule, which is to finish the tasks that are holding someone else on the team up. So I always, always, always other than the two minute rules, I always prioritize those first. For example, Our designer needs an overview of a branding direction before they can start, I make sure to do that first because it sets the right tone for the team, first of all, like I should be helping the rest of the team succeed. And they succeed by having the most amount of time possible instead of waiting on me for things. So I find that by prioritizing that I feel like at least the rest of the business is moving forward, even if I'm off my game.
Phil:
Yes, that's a really good parameter to decide what you need to focus on if you're holding someone up and deal with that first. Yeah, otherwise, that has a compounding effect. Like if everyone's waiting on you, that not only affects you It affects them and that then affects your customers or your clients. One single thing could just have a domino effect.
Lauren:
Totally. And then the number six for me is actually time off. Sometimes. I've really, really been trying to do this for about an hour and a half. After two hours before I go in bed and start reading, I'm really trying to put my phone away and put my computer away. I'm not perfect. It's definitely a work in progress. But I find mentally by having time off, I'm better on my time on. I don't know if you find that too.
Phil:
This is a good way to kind of round off our discussion because generally I think when we're entrepreneurs, we're self employed, people tend to almost feel guilty when you're not working. I think about that huge exposé in the fall of Away Luggage, when one of the group of employees, chatted with journalists and told them how insane the working environment was there and CEO ended up resigning. Because it was revealed that basically employees were expected to be on call, essentially all the time working on weekends, not taking time off. And if they did, they were guilted. And that was a culture that had developed that away with one of the co founders who as I said, has since resigned. It's interesting. You should look that up. I can't remember which was a quick Google search will tell me it was the Verge was the publication. Oh, yes, it was on the Verge. So former Away employees describe a toxic work environment at Away.
And this to me is kind of this pop in the bubble of hustle, right. Which is like oh, we're always trying to hustle and remember our friend, Kasha, she tweeted, let's rediscover hobbies in 2020. It had over a half a million favorites, over 150,000 retweets in 48 hours. This idea of, why does everything have to be a side hustle or money making enterprise? I think people are tired. Why do we feel guilty? Why do we feel guilty for not working? We shouldn't feel guilty if we're not working. That's my point in all of this.
Lauren:
Yeah. And for sure. I was just listening to an audiobook. It's called Indistractible it was actually really good. And I also listened to another audio book highly recommended called Atomic Habits. And it's just so interesting the concept to me of your time is what you do with it. And if you choose to spend dedicated off time texting a client about work for a non emergency or checking your email, basically, where you're diverting your energy, you're actually depleting energy from where you're intending it to go.
So if you're intending to have a relaxing night, so that you can like, get you re energized for the day, then it doesn't make sense to be like, checking Slack. You should just be in the moment and re-energizing yourself. And so I've been trying really, really consciously to remind myself that just because I'm going through the motions of checking my email over and over, doesn't necessarily mean I'm being productive. You know what I mean? I'm not pushing the needle forward, just because I'm refreshing my inbox.
Phil:
I completely agree. I think that is important to have that little reminder.
Lauren:
Yeah, it's pretty fascinating. I actually I enabled inbox pause. Sometimes I peek when you were like selling your courses, I was peeking. But it actually really, really helps. And so I've set up inbox, pause on our Gmail work account, and I get my emails released to me at 7am at 1pm, 7pm and 1am. So, I wake up and I see all the emails that happened from 1am on. And then I got another release at 7am. And I highly, highly, highly recommend it. Because, quite honestly, if something's really, really urgent or important, someone will call or text you. So you're not really missing anything.
Phil:
We've gone over a few productivity tools and apps that we use and by no means are we experts in this topic. There are tons of experts out there if you go on YouTube, or you look online at blog posts and such. But we hope that this conversation today shed some light onto how we work as like a duo in a small business that do a lot of different things. We don't have the kind of advantage of like working in a corporation having a siloed position where we just focus on one thing as entrepreneur. I kind of like us actually, as entrepreneurs, we do a lot of things. So yeah, Lauren might be whipping up the email blasts that we send, and I'm scheduling it and designing it and tagging and setting up automations and some of the more tech side of things. We get hurled all of these things that we need to do in a day and we delegate between the two of us and then between our team, which we're always trying to get better at, but we do a little bit of everything.
So we hope that shedding some light into how we handle all of that the apps we use the tools we use the podcasts and audiobooks that Lauren is listening to because I don't really read that much.
Lauren
Um, I think you would like audiobooks.
Phil
Yeah, I try but I prefer to listen to music. It's really hard for me to listen to something that is not music. I don't want to hear more people talking in my ear. Even I don't really listen to a lot of podcasts, but I'm just not that person. I like to make them. I like to talk, but I don't necessarily like when people talk in my ears most of getting paid for it.
Lauren:
Yeah, makes sense.
Phil:
So we hope that this has been useful for you. Has it been useful for you? What have you learned? What are you going to try? What are you going to listen to where you're going to research? Let us know #brandtherapy to continue this conversation on social media. I'm @philpallen.
Lauren:
And I'm @thelaurenmoore.
Phil:
And we would love to hear from you. Also, did you enjoy this episode where it's just the two of us? We didn't have a guest. We heard from a few people that actually some of the episodes were just the two of us kind of talking about something specific, had been some of their favorites. So we thought we'd try it again. And we want to hear what you think.
Lauren:
For sure. All right.
Phil:
That's it for us this week. We'll see you back next time right here on Brand Therapy. Thank you for hanging out with us. We'll see you next time.
Lauren:
Bye.
